Carmers
Member
How many different formats over consecutive years will it be though before a format is set in stone? No two years seem to be the same. The tournament does not get a chance to see if the format works.
Emerson Shield - 2007
- Thread starter Gatsby
- Start date
How many different formats over consecutive years will it be though before a format is set in stone? No two years seem to be the same. The tournament does not get a chance to see if the format works.
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
The way I see it is that we need to have zone finals. It is not practical to have a one round final with all teams because it would mean Men and Women in separate centres (you would need 36 lanes). That also means that smaller centres would always miss out on hosting anything.
Because we can’t have a one round final, the only way you can do it is by having zone finals. This at least limits travelling to somewhere reasonably close to your home centre (expect for Mildura which is not close to anywhere).
Ideally all zones should run the same but unfortunately we don’t have the same numbers in all zones. Last year the zones with six teams ran two full rounds – a total of 10 games. Some zones ran men and women on separate days (a lot of people moaned about it being too long a day) some zones ran men and women over two days (a lot of people moaned about having to travel and pay for accommodation for just 5 games per day). As a result the “powers that be” decided to go with 1 round plus a positional round for the zones because 5 games would not have been enough. People (including me) moaned about the positional round. After the rules for this year had been decided they got confirmation of a new team in the East (Epping) and a new team in the West (Bowlarama). The zone final was bowled at Ed Fleming under the original rules – 1 full round plus a positional. The extra team meant 7 rounds plus a positional – not the 5 round plus positional as originally planned at the start of the year. By the time the Western zone came around it was realised that the extra team and therefore 2 extra rounds pretty much made the need for the extra round (positional round) obsolete, so all centres in the zone were asked if they were happy to scrap the positional for the zone final – and it was scrapped.
The northern zone only has 6 centres and I think the people in the zone decided (correct me if I’m wrong) to go with 2 full rounds over two days (as for previous year). I agree that it would be nice for all zone to be exactly the same, but how is that possible when each zone has different numbers of teams?
The idea of this event has been to have the best teams qualify for the final. Previous formats, and variations of depth between zones, has meant that some of the stronger teams have missed out on the final. The repechage was introduced to give more teams a chance to qualify for the final. It is possible that you could end up with six teams from the one zone (though unlikely). The biggest problem I see with the repechage is the extra weekend of bowling and therefore the extra weekend of cost. Coming from the stronger zone I was happy to have an opportunity to qualify this way – but it won’t suit everybody.
If the repechage system is a success then maybe the format will stay and everyone will get used to it. The only other option I can see is to have 4 teams from the west, three from east and three from north. This could probably be argued if the west has seven teams and the others only have six, but will be unfair on other zones if they also have seven teams (next year looks like being seven in west and six in other two – Altona coming into the east with two dropping out)
Because we can’t have a one round final, the only way you can do it is by having zone finals. This at least limits travelling to somewhere reasonably close to your home centre (expect for Mildura which is not close to anywhere).
Ideally all zones should run the same but unfortunately we don’t have the same numbers in all zones. Last year the zones with six teams ran two full rounds – a total of 10 games. Some zones ran men and women on separate days (a lot of people moaned about it being too long a day) some zones ran men and women over two days (a lot of people moaned about having to travel and pay for accommodation for just 5 games per day). As a result the “powers that be” decided to go with 1 round plus a positional round for the zones because 5 games would not have been enough. People (including me) moaned about the positional round. After the rules for this year had been decided they got confirmation of a new team in the East (Epping) and a new team in the West (Bowlarama). The zone final was bowled at Ed Fleming under the original rules – 1 full round plus a positional. The extra team meant 7 rounds plus a positional – not the 5 round plus positional as originally planned at the start of the year. By the time the Western zone came around it was realised that the extra team and therefore 2 extra rounds pretty much made the need for the extra round (positional round) obsolete, so all centres in the zone were asked if they were happy to scrap the positional for the zone final – and it was scrapped.
The northern zone only has 6 centres and I think the people in the zone decided (correct me if I’m wrong) to go with 2 full rounds over two days (as for previous year). I agree that it would be nice for all zone to be exactly the same, but how is that possible when each zone has different numbers of teams?
The idea of this event has been to have the best teams qualify for the final. Previous formats, and variations of depth between zones, has meant that some of the stronger teams have missed out on the final. The repechage was introduced to give more teams a chance to qualify for the final. It is possible that you could end up with six teams from the one zone (though unlikely). The biggest problem I see with the repechage is the extra weekend of bowling and therefore the extra weekend of cost. Coming from the stronger zone I was happy to have an opportunity to qualify this way – but it won’t suit everybody.
If the repechage system is a success then maybe the format will stay and everyone will get used to it. The only other option I can see is to have 4 teams from the west, three from east and three from north. This could probably be argued if the west has seven teams and the others only have six, but will be unfair on other zones if they also have seven teams (next year looks like being seven in west and six in other two – Altona coming into the east with two dropping out)
xpense
retired
Why dont we look at a whole new concept all together.......
Lets scrap the 3 zones. Afterall it was 4, now 3.
Lets make it 2, West & East, should be easy to draw a line on the map of Victoria and say all centres on this side east and vice versa.
At present how are the zones actually divided up. If Altona goes into the East Zone, when the are located in the West, it does not really work.
Hold it over a weekend as you would approx 10 in each Zone - two rounds 18 games (no one can complain not enough games then for a weekend away)
Take top 5 from each Zone to state final.
The only problem l see here is the number of lanes required for zone final, but that is not always a problem, as Country Cup visits almost every country centre, regardless of the number of lanes. It would all come done planning.
Or perhaps a random draw for the Zones - That gives you the opportunity to compete against centres you may never get the opportunity to, as they just do not make the State final, and choose not to attend the repacharge final (need to wait and see if all centres turn first).
Just some more random thoughts - as afterall the last ones got some interesting responses
Lets scrap the 3 zones. Afterall it was 4, now 3.
Lets make it 2, West & East, should be easy to draw a line on the map of Victoria and say all centres on this side east and vice versa.
At present how are the zones actually divided up. If Altona goes into the East Zone, when the are located in the West, it does not really work.
Hold it over a weekend as you would approx 10 in each Zone - two rounds 18 games (no one can complain not enough games then for a weekend away)
Take top 5 from each Zone to state final.
The only problem l see here is the number of lanes required for zone final, but that is not always a problem, as Country Cup visits almost every country centre, regardless of the number of lanes. It would all come done planning.
Or perhaps a random draw for the Zones - That gives you the opportunity to compete against centres you may never get the opportunity to, as they just do not make the State final, and choose not to attend the repacharge final (need to wait and see if all centres turn first).
Just some more random thoughts - as afterall the last ones got some interesting responses
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
Not quite so easy to draw a line down the middle of the map but using Lance’s idea it would go something like this
West
Mildura, Horsham, Warrnambool, Colac, Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, North Geelong, Melton (9 teams)
East
Wodonga, Sale, Morwell, Shepparton, Narre Warren, Mentone, Epping, Altona, Echuca (9 teams)
That puts Werribee pretty much as the middle centre (pretty close with Echuca on my map) so I guess a decision would have to be made as to whether they are west or east – I suppose being west of Melbourne they would end up in the western zone – although the Eastern zone looks weaker on paper so maybe they would go there instead.
It is not just a case of saying west of Melbourne GPO and East of GPO because there are 12 places west and only 7 east.
I can see merit in this idea – it means you only have to have two zones and no extra weekend of repechage. It would still mean a lot of travel for a zone final in Sale or Wodonga or Mildura – but better than having to travel twice when you also have to compete in a repechage.
I think it would probably need to be one full round of 9 nine games though – rather than two rounds. This way the smaller centres would still get a chance to host the zone finals. The zone final is only designed to find 5 teams and therefore 9 games should be more than enough to sort out a top 5.
West
Mildura, Horsham, Warrnambool, Colac, Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, North Geelong, Melton (9 teams)
East
Wodonga, Sale, Morwell, Shepparton, Narre Warren, Mentone, Epping, Altona, Echuca (9 teams)
That puts Werribee pretty much as the middle centre (pretty close with Echuca on my map) so I guess a decision would have to be made as to whether they are west or east – I suppose being west of Melbourne they would end up in the western zone – although the Eastern zone looks weaker on paper so maybe they would go there instead.
It is not just a case of saying west of Melbourne GPO and East of GPO because there are 12 places west and only 7 east.
I can see merit in this idea – it means you only have to have two zones and no extra weekend of repechage. It would still mean a lot of travel for a zone final in Sale or Wodonga or Mildura – but better than having to travel twice when you also have to compete in a repechage.
I think it would probably need to be one full round of 9 nine games though – rather than two rounds. This way the smaller centres would still get a chance to host the zone finals. The zone final is only designed to find 5 teams and therefore 9 games should be more than enough to sort out a top 5.
xpense
retired
Gary, never said it had to be a straight line....
Gary you have hit the nail on the head, it means that bowlers are not paying out as much money overall. As afterall, no extra linage, no extra accomodation, petrol, time of work (if required for the travel or just to be able to bowl the extra weekend)
If it is 1 round or 2, im not worried. As afterall in the smaller centres it would mean 1 round would still take all weekend. And lets face it, a large number of bowlers really enjoy the actual weekend away.... and its more to do with the after hours fun, than the bowling....
rychenroller
Active Member
Bowlin_in_Stlye
New Member
if possible would some one from each team that bowled in emerson send me their team photos?? just want to keep since its my first tourny in australia and definatly not my last
Purple_Tweety
Miss Paige
I agree that these ideas have merit. But let's consider the travel time for some centres. I know it has been brought up, but Mildura to anywhere is a long drive (although they had one of the shorter trips to Horsham) and vice versa, for the centres travelling to mildura or wodonga for example.
Is the line being drawn the wrong direction? (absolutely no theory into the question at all!!)
From what I have heard there are not many planning to make the trip to the repecharge for whatever reason. Although I like the idea for the stronger zones that have centres that would make the final stronger. And that can only make the tournament stronger.
Country Cup works for many reasons and it has also evolved from it's first year. And there are centres that would love to be a part of it but for different reasons aren't able to. The beauty of Emerson is the zones so if more goldpin centres wish to be a part of it then they can be added to a zone and they have to bowl their way to the final, as country cup is the eleven centres and there is no room to move with additional centres because of the smaller centres etc. We have two country centres that only have ten lanes any more than eleven teams and it really rocks the boat.
We all know that no matter what is done not everyone will be happy. It's life. But if we can pool the ideas together then if we can modify the current format for a better tournament then why not throw the ideas around. After all it is all just people's personal opinions.
Is the line being drawn the wrong direction? (absolutely no theory into the question at all!!)
From what I have heard there are not many planning to make the trip to the repecharge for whatever reason. Although I like the idea for the stronger zones that have centres that would make the final stronger. And that can only make the tournament stronger.
Country Cup works for many reasons and it has also evolved from it's first year. And there are centres that would love to be a part of it but for different reasons aren't able to. The beauty of Emerson is the zones so if more goldpin centres wish to be a part of it then they can be added to a zone and they have to bowl their way to the final, as country cup is the eleven centres and there is no room to move with additional centres because of the smaller centres etc. We have two country centres that only have ten lanes any more than eleven teams and it really rocks the boat.
We all know that no matter what is done not everyone will be happy. It's life. But if we can pool the ideas together then if we can modify the current format for a better tournament then why not throw the ideas around. After all it is all just people's personal opinions.
xpense
retired
Great question? No reason why it could not be north & south. Gary your the man with details on the centres locations, how would this one look in the way of centres?
I think this is something that needs to be looked at. For example if both teams from Mildura make the trip down for the repecharge and get through to the state final, then that is a lot of travelling for this event.
I must say l love the concept of the repecharge final, to get through, as it gives every centre that extra chance to get through, especially with 4 teams making through. You never know what might of happened at the zone finals, to a specific team.
I just hope that the repecharge final is not a fizzer, and we at least get more than 4 teams in each division, and would like to see at the least 8 teams in each, as that would make for a good day.
Lets keep the ideas flowing, as goldpin committee members do read thsi thread, and supply answers to our questions which is great.
rychenroller
Active Member
It is the top 4 from the rep mate, 2 from each zone and 4 from the rep = 10 teams.
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
North
Mildura, Horsham, Wodonga, Echuca, Shepparton, Bendigo, Epping, Melton, Ballarat (9 teams)
South
Warrnambool, Colac, Geelong and Nth Geelong, Sale, Morwell, Narre Warren, Mentone, Werribee (9 teams)
Altona is in the middle - if no Echuca then they would go into North otherwise probably go into south.
Travel problem actually is worse this way
Worst case scenario Mildura to Mentone - 575kms - but the next biggest trip (other than Mildura) would be Wodonga to Mentone 350kms
For the South - Warrnambool to Sale 479kms, but then Morwell to W'Bool is 415km -- ie lots of kms for everyone in the south
So east / west would probably be slighlty less travel - with the exception of Mildura who cop lots of travel either way.... at least with no repechage they only have to travel once plus a final rather than twice plus a final.
Mildura, Horsham, Wodonga, Echuca, Shepparton, Bendigo, Epping, Melton, Ballarat (9 teams)
South
Warrnambool, Colac, Geelong and Nth Geelong, Sale, Morwell, Narre Warren, Mentone, Werribee (9 teams)
Altona is in the middle - if no Echuca then they would go into North otherwise probably go into south.
Travel problem actually is worse this way
Worst case scenario Mildura to Mentone - 575kms - but the next biggest trip (other than Mildura) would be Wodonga to Mentone 350kms
For the South - Warrnambool to Sale 479kms, but then Morwell to W'Bool is 415km -- ie lots of kms for everyone in the south
So east / west would probably be slighlty less travel - with the exception of Mildura who cop lots of travel either way.... at least with no repechage they only have to travel once plus a final rather than twice plus a final.
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
With reference to Craigs comments - repechage is going to be extremely competitive (depending on what teams compete)
If all teams go, you would have Werribee, Bowlarama, Geelong, Melton, Bendigo, Mildura, Epping and EFL all vying for the four spots in the final. The other centres are probably less likely to get through (Morwell, Sale, Wodonga, Ballarat) unless there are some major team changes.
Glad we don't have to go to repechage this year
If all teams go, you would have Werribee, Bowlarama, Geelong, Melton, Bendigo, Mildura, Epping and EFL all vying for the four spots in the final. The other centres are probably less likely to get through (Morwell, Sale, Wodonga, Ballarat) unless there are some major team changes.
Glad we don't have to go to repechage this year
eraser20
Member
I was under the misconception that there were also ladies bowling in Emerson! Apparently not by the posts.With reference to Craigs comments - repechage is going to be extremely competitive (depending on what teams compete)
If all teams go, you would have Werribee, Bowlarama, Geelong, Melton, Bendigo, Mildura, Epping and EFL all vying for the four spots in the final. The other centres are probably less likely to get through (Morwell, Sale, Wodonga, Ballarat) unless there are some major team changes.
Glad we don't have to go to repechage this year
xpense
retired
Ok so here we have some details on those that have said they are bowling in the last few days.
Repecharge final
Mens
Bowlarama - ?
Werribee - ?
Melton - ?
Ballarat - ?
Epping - ?
Ed Fleming Lanes - ?
Sale - ?
Rosebud - ?
Morewell - ?
Mildura - ?
Bendigo - ?
Wodonga -?
Ladies
Bowlarama -?
Melton -?
Colac - ?
Ballarat - ?
Mentone - Yes
Narre - Yes
Sale - ?
Rosebud - ?
Mildura - ?
Wodonga - ?
Horsham - ?
If all teams turn up, thats 12 in the mens and 11 in the ladies.
11 games on the day, is going to make for a very long day indeed.
Repecharge final
Mens
Bowlarama - ?
Werribee - ?
Melton - ?
Ballarat - ?
Epping - ?
Ed Fleming Lanes - ?
Sale - ?
Rosebud - ?
Morewell - ?
Mildura - ?
Bendigo - ?
Wodonga -?
Ladies
Bowlarama -?
Melton -?
Colac - ?
Ballarat - ?
Mentone - Yes
Narre - Yes
Sale - ?
Rosebud - ?
Mildura - ?
Wodonga - ?
Horsham - ?
If all teams turn up, thats 12 in the mens and 11 in the ladies.
11 games on the day, is going to make for a very long day indeed.
rychenroller
Active Member
Of course
It would be also great if more ladies could post and throw out their ideas. Paige is probably the only real active one in that regard.Melton men and ladies will be there.
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
It is mostly guys that post Noelene, so i guess by extension it is mostly the Men's section that gets discussed.
I think if you read most of my posts here and on Country Cup, i usually mention both divisions and put on stats for both divisions - this time was the exception.
