Wrist devices, fair or unfair advantage?

[jimcross]

Michael Little --------" I am sure people could do with or without finger grips or slugs,"

Interesting idea, Michael, and reasonable to think so. Having tried both, I can attest that that is certainly true about finger grips. For some people , provided pitches are right for them, it may even be better. When I first changed over ( From rubber!! ) in the 90s, I tried without thumb slug, and I've re-tried several times since. It is a disaster. Must be the material - it grips your thumb with the same enthusiasm as it does a dry lane! By time you've got enough clearance to get your thumb out, you've got so much you can't reliably hold on to it. Like I said, a disaster.
Jim.

 

[CHIN]

Rob,

several people in relation to wrist devices used the phrase gaining an unreasonable advantage & should be banned. Looked up the definition of cheating. ."gaining an unfair advantage"

Your right though, nobody atually used the word "cheat"....didnt have the balls i suppose.
I know wrist supports ar legal & people are still allowed to have them. thats what i've been saying all along.
I dont understand what all the pissing & moaning about them is about then. If there such a disadvantage to people using them at the elite level, people that dont use them should be stocked when they come up against someone using one.

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day Jim,

I use VISE Finger Grips and Contour Thumb Oval Thumb sleeve. Why, so each ball has exactly the same. But I only went that way in Feb of this year. I then use VISE Tape on my thumb up both side for a snug easy out release.

Again so every ball feels the same, I no longer use tape in the ball. The other reason for going that way is that today's bowling balls are so soooooft that it is very easy to take too much out of the hole or sand a groove were you don't want it. I have also had a few balls with air bubbles where the weight block and soft centre are drilled through. Having sleeved hole takes that issue away.

Times have certainly changed. I remember when I had my first ball drilled when I return to bowling, they stated to go through the options for the holes. All I wanted was holes.

I use changeable soles on my shoes, why, some centres are slicker than other on the approach. Years ago you would simple use a wire brush to change the grain angle on the slide shoe. But who has leather soles on their bowling shoes these days?

But as George F mentioned he uses the science and knowledge then uses what works best to repeat the shot, and that is the key. A few others have mentioned that it is a lot easier these days, well yes, the higher scores are easier, but so are the lower scores.

Why, there is more to get right. Bowling has always had a science about it that I love, now that science has so much more in it.

It’s not just bowling if you want to do more than just social league.

 

[jockey]

Michael Little --------" I am sure people could do with or without finger grips or slugs,"

Interesting idea, Michael, and reasonable to think so. Having tried both, I can attest that that is certainly true about finger grips. For some people , provided pitches are right for them, it may even be better. When I first changed over ( From rubber!! ) in the 90s, I tried without thumb slug, and I've re-tried several times since. It is a disaster. Must be the material - it grips your thumb with the same enthusiasm as it does a dry lane! By time you've got enough clearance to get your thumb out, you've got so much you can't reliably hold on to it. Like I said, a disaster.
Jim.

As a user or as some who are posting to this thread would say an abuser of the use of a wrist guard for over twenty odd years I have been interested to read the insights and opinions of the various posters.

I too find it necessary to use a thumb slug. However this may be due to the fact that for about fifteen years I have bowled with a full thumbed golf glove with the two middle fingers cut out. I found it necessary due to the constant need to use liquid skin as I was always bowling games and my thumb never had the chance to heal properly. I have never used fingers grips and have often wondered what difference that would make to my release but have always been reluctant to have them put in. However I am thinking of doing so when I next buy new stuff.

I also find it interesting that people throw up the taking off the guard for the corner pin scenario. When I first started to use the cobra I had to do so in order to throw a flatter shot for the spare. However I have not had to do so in at least over a decade or more. This is due to developing the ability to throw a perfectly straight ball accross lane with the cobra still on at the seven and four or combination. I also throw a perfectly straight ball directly at the 2-4-7 or a combination of those pin leaves.

I also had at one stage an adjustable cobra (before my gear was stolen about 7 odd years ago) and found that I did not like it compared to the fixed cobra. I also found I could make better adjustments to my relaese with the fixed one rather than the adjustable one.

I was not surprised by the posts about using a guard to limit the relaese of the ball however I think to say that there (the fixed ones in particular) use limits your ability to vary your release is not completely true. I have developed my own techniques for flattening or increasing the impetus put on the ball with the cobra over the years.

Now in order to avoid the so called "cheater" tag if I could only go back in time and throttle that doctor who decided that a half cast would suffice in order to mend my left forearm just above the wrist the first time it was broken. It would have been worth rebreaking it over his head for all the flak that has come my way decades later.

 

[Michael Little]

Oops theres one.



Jeanette Baker Duel World Cup Champion
Cara Honeychurch World Cup Champion + Numerous WPBA Titles
Amanda Bradley World Cup Champion
Carol Gianotti Numerous WPBA titles + 2011 hall fame
Ian Bradford dominated tenpin bowling in the 80's & 90's
Paul Trotter
George Frelingos

Some of the greatest bowlers Australia has produced. All used during or currently using wrist devices through there career.

I'd be interested to know who is going to inform these people that they gained an unreasonable advantage (were cheating) during there career.

Interesting:

the evolution of bowling balls is fine, but the evolution of other equipment is not.

I think you are missing the point a wrist guard brings to the ability of someone. There is one attribute that all of these people possess, that is the ability to deliver a consistant delivery. Perhaps an interesting point of discussion could be, how much of a role did a wrist guard play in allowing this to occur.

I have previously stated I don't think the mechanical wrist guards should be allowed, but ones like Trotts, Amanda, and Jeanette wore are probably suitable as they provide stability and not a significant advantage of increasing the dynamics of a release, therefore improving potential ball reaction etc etc.

The funny things is, Carol, rarely wore one and would rarely need one, Amanda could easily do without hers and sometimes didn't, I am sure Cara could do likewise, but how many of these guys or other people that currently use wrist guards would have a less effective shot without one and still be able to compete to the same level regardless of whether they are tournament, league or social player?

I also think to calling it cheating it overhyping people responses a little bit more than necessary, it can't be cheating if it is within the rules.

And the evolution of equipment in all sports occurs, but everyone has the ability to use a new bowling ball, whereas a wrist guard in probably 90% of cases allows for someone to achieve something they would not otherwise be able to do. Eventually there comes a point in all sports where outside equipment of what is the minimum required to compete in a sport, provides some with too much of an advantage. I don't think wristguards will get there to the level of swimming suits etc. But there are similarities.

 

[Michael Little]

Rob,

several people in relation to wrist devices used the phrase gaining an unreasonable advantage & should be banned. Looked up the definition of cheating. ."gaining an unfair advantage"

Your right though, nobody atually used the word "cheat"....didnt have the balls i suppose.
I know wrist supports ar legal & people are still allowed to have them. thats what i've been saying all along.
I dont understand what all the pissing & moaning about them is about then. If there such a disadvantage to people using them at the elite level, people that dont use them should be stocked when they come up against someone using one.

From pretty much most of the responses I have read here, you are more or less the only one trying to hype this up. I think most people accept people use wristguards. I don't think most people have a problem with them or their use or fellow competitors using them. It is usually good for some good natured ribbing and jest on most occasions, much like dumping on a left hander, but the majority accept they are here to stay. There are justifications for people to use them for a variety of reasons, previous injuries, etc etc, I think the issue most people have against them, is that of those bowlers who use them as a comfort zone for feel and to achieve a level higher than they probably are, if they just practiced technique improvements instead. But, it also depends on how far each individual wants to progress their skill level in the sport.

The topic is whether they create an unfair advantage or not. Stop trying to pick the subject matter to pieces by looking up useless definitions in order to stir the pot. People will start calling you Wayne Chester II soon. And I don't think anyone is pissing and moaning about anything to be honest. Just providing opinions and for a change, most are reasonably sensible.

 

[Michael Little]

Michael Little --------" I am sure people could do with or without finger grips or slugs,"

Interesting idea, Michael, and reasonable to think so. Having tried both, I can attest that that is certainly true about finger grips. For some people , provided pitches are right for them, it may even be better. When I first changed over ( From rubber!! ) in the 90s, I tried without thumb slug, and I've re-tried several times since. It is a disaster. Must be the material - it grips your thumb with the same enthusiasm as it does a dry lane! By time you've got enough clearance to get your thumb out, you've got so much you can't reliably hold on to it. Like I said, a disaster.
Jim.

I think most people would find it difficult now today to not use a slug of some type. The material of balls just differs far too much to obtain a consistant feel. Fingers grips, not so important, but whilst the ability is there to use them, why not when the material is again all the same. I have used both with or without, so doesn't bother me too much, just easier and less time consuming chucking a lifter in.

 

[strop]

Interesting thread.........not.......yawn-some.... gee maybe they should have thought of all this years ago............

I think you are missing the point a wrist guard brings to the ability of someone. There is one attribute that all of these people possess, that is the ability to deliver a consistant delivery. Perhaps an interesting point of discussion could be, how much of a role did a wrist guard play in allowing this to occur.

Yes.......true......doesn't a reactive bowling bowl do the same thing...............lets people hook a ball that couldn't...........

I for one use a cobra, always have since i broke my wrist in a go-kart accident ( i suppose I could use 10lb balls), maybe I should have changed to being right hander..............
Ha! Ha! choke...choke... but I have enough disabilities in my life with out doing that!!

cheers

tony

 

[CHIN]

Interesting thread.........not.......yawn-some.... gee maybe they should have thought of all this years ago............

Hmmm, people got far to much time on there hands

 

[Toon]

I think when I was younger I used to think they were for girls/pansies but time passes and I definately see why people use them and need them. I have used one now and then to remove some revs from my shot but all in all I find them quite uncomfortable and a lil bit embarassing. when I have used one, I don't find my release any better or worse, don't find my scores any better or worse. I think its harder to spare with one on. But each to their own.

I definately don't think they are the holy grail to consistent shooting. They are no different from a big hooking ball, learning how to whack the ball or whatever. They are simply a tool for bowlers to improve their game. If you learn to use it to suit your game so be it. Some people use powerful gear to improve their games and get high scores, some can't.

 

[wchester]

Stop trying to pick the subject matter to pieces by looking up useless definitions in order to stir the pot. People will start calling you Wayne Chester II soon.

OUCH! THAT HURT

 

[bobarb]

put two people on the same lane using the same type of ball and both using the same wrist device , will they be equal at the end of the game, very unlikely, it all comes
down to the skill of the bowler to execute the same shot over and over. this has nothing to do with wrist guard so i don't think they are an unfair advantage.

you guys on here have been around for years bowling, so you know you have you good days and also your bad days and wearing a wrist guard does'nt change that

 

[CHIN]

Im sure you'll get over it Wayne.

 

[Michael Little]

Interesting thread.........not.......yawn-some.... gee maybe they should have thought of all this years ago............




Yes.......true......doesn't a reactive bowling bowl do the same thing...............lets people hook a ball that couldn't...........

I for one use a cobra, always have since i broke my wrist in a go-kart accident ( i suppose I could use 10lb balls), maybe I should have changed to being right hander..............
Ha! Ha! choke...choke... but I have enough disabilities in my life with out doing that!!

cheers

tony

Funnily enough Tony, I am left handed, I just can't bowl a typical left handed shot without probably using a wrist guard to tone it down. But whilst reactive balls have increased bowlers average far and above what they really can shoot, two bowlers using the same reactive ball will come down to their skill level and how they adjust, with a wrist guard, I think in some instances they allow people a better ability to perform a shot more consistantly and therefore the ability to maintain scoring pace if they previously didnt have the technique to do so prior.

Different story in your case and other people like yourself, physically it probably isnt possible for you without one and that is why they will probably never be banned or some rule brought in restricting use, how can one define whether someone needs one on medical grounds or because they lack technique? I think the adjustable ones were you can dial up some more hook however should be goneski.

 

[Michael Little]

OUCH! THAT HURT

lol, you are chief pot stirrer.

 

[CHIN]

Michael,

I dont think everyone will ever agree on this point. As we have both said, wrist devices are legal according to the rules. So all the posts for & against them are irrevelant.

 

[jimcross]

I've used one and not used one in various periods over the years, sometimes to help with my wrist position, and sometimes through injury. Never gave it any thought as to whether I 'should" in a sporting context. They were just there and anyone could use one if they wanted to. I didn't ever ask myself about 'advantages' or not.

Looking around when bowling in tournaments - some did, some didn't, and guess what, all those wearing wristguards were not filling all of the top positions, with the others all being 'also-rans'.

I find it a bit more difficult to say the same about those on ball 'contracts' V/S those who are not.

Looking back, my highest 3 games average - 249 With Wristguard 5 or 6 Years ago.
...................my highest 4 game average - 239 With Wristguard 9 or 10 years ago.
...................my highest 6 game average - 254 Without Wristguard 49 years ago.

There - that should mean something about wristguards ! Wrong, doesn't actually mean anything at all.

 

[John_Velo]

Different story in your case and other people like yourself, physically it probably isnt possible for you without one and that is why they will probably never be banned or some rule brought in restricting use, how can one define whether someone needs one on medical grounds or because they lack technique? I think the adjustable ones were you can dial up some more hook however should be goneski.

Hi Michael,

I think the key to the general thought is in your statement here.

If worn as a support ( Medical Reasons), then you would need to wear it for all your shots. I don't have a problem with the adjustable type as long as they are not adjusted mid game, mid frame or removed. As it is then not worn for support.

As George F said he wears it as it give him consistency, does he wear it for all shots. Probably yes. One because of the consistency factor and two because you would get sick of taking the damn thing off all the time.

I don't believe it would be possible for a person to bowl a ball naturally with their wrist cupped at 70 degs for an entire delivery unless you have had a robot implant. You will at some point of the delivery need to un-cup your wrist to get out of the ball.

 

[Geoff300]

Michael,

I dont think everyone will ever agree on this point. As we have both said, wrist devices are legal according to the rules. So all the posts for & against them are irrevelant.

I don't really believe the comments against the use are irrelevant
This is a Forum for comments for and against issues of interest

If we took your view we would struggle to have a discussion about many other topics

Just my thoughts

 

[Michael Little]

Michael,

I dont think everyone will ever agree on this point. As we have both said, wrist devices are legal according to the rules. So all the posts for & against them are irrevelant.

Not sure which point you are alluding too, I have made a few, and I agree with Geoff above, you could use your logic and say most posts about the majority of subjects are irrelevant too.

Regardless of whether wrist guards are allowable in the rules or not, this post asks an entirely different question, nothing about the legality of them.

You are getting cranky in your old age Rob lol!