Wrist devices, fair or unfair advantage?

[GeorgeF]

I've made no secret of the fact that if I was right handed I would not wear a wrist guard and whack the ball for all the reasons Cow mentioned. Being left handed is a whole different kettle of fish. I've used ball technology, science, knowledge and a tonne of practise to get where I have. My game is more about repeating than moving as such (even though on some occassions I've had to move my feet). Until there is a rule saying I cant, I'll continue to play with a wrist guard as my choice.

Good topic John

 

[Deano]

I've made no secret of the fact that if I was right handed I would not wear a wrist guard and whack the ball for all the reasons Cow mentioned. Being left handed is a whole different kettle of fish. I've used ball technology, science, knowledge and a tonne of practise to get where I have. My game is more about repeating than moving as such (even though on some occassions I've had to move my feet). Until there is a rule saying I cant, I'll continue to play with a wrist guard as my choice.

Good topic John

George you must admit though you would go 2 handed before becoming a rightie. LOL. I must admit at Melbourne Cup it did look alright.

Deano

 

[jason_doust]

It would be a sight to see if a bowler such an Androoooooooo actually put one on to make his tenpin, as opposed to taking one off...

Cow

Hahahahaaa!

That's actually a pretty valid concept! Yep, I too have used a wrist guard recently. It gave me the feeling of having no hand. It also gave me the feeling of being strapped into a sweaty confined space. Taught me a lot about flattening my release though. I could throw it really awfully with a Robbie's (absence of) Revs.

I think as a junior I broke two Cobras and a Scorpion from cupping my wrist until with the metal fatigued. Not very strong, those things. For the folks out there with a genuine medical need for support, my sincere sympathies. It must be bloody annoying.

For the rest of you, harden up. You're giving people a reason to scoff at bowling as a sport.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[jimcross]

Magpi17,
No one is disputing that anyone who "needs" a wrist guard of some sort, due to an injury such as the one you have outlined above. But there are non-adjustable "support" wrist guards, that offer appropriate wrist support, without giving you a skill you do not posses (not talking about you specifically here, just in general). I have no issue with "support" only type wrist guards, as they do not change anything about how you release the ball, or how many revs you get, etc....

I'm just using this specific post to ask this general question, as this issue of " adjustable " V/S " support " devices keeps popping up, with some people seeming to be saying that the adjustable ones are a recent phenomenon.

I seem to think they've been around for well over 20 years. Does anyone actually remember when they were first available?

Bowling ' gloves ' were always available, from my memory of 1960. They were very much like a golf glove, i.e. fingerless, and they had a foam rubber pad in the palm. That allowed for a relaxed span, but without a ' loose ' grip, so that people didn't feel the need to ' over grip' the ball. They were still available in the '90's, maybe still??

Anyhow, does anyone actually remember? I think they preceded most, maybe all, of the ball technology past rubber and plastic with mushroom weight blocks. John: what about your dad - does he remember?

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Jim,

I was going to go through some of dad's old pin actions and scan some photos of the devices that have come and gone throughout the years. Keeping in mind that I missed from 1986 through 2010.

I remember the red Cobra that was late 70's, followed by the index fingered one. I also remember the funny glove one you mentioned with the palm pad.

Jim, do you remember the elbow lock out version? Now they were styling times.

 

[jimcross]

Jim, do you remember the elbow lock out version? Now they were styling times.

No, John I don't. I bowled one mixed doubles league in mid 1963, and didn't bowl again until December 1996 ( over 33 years ) - even longer than you, so I missed out on all the major changes. I adapted my old style - pretty successfully for a while, to all the new conditions. Not successful at the moment!!!
From what I recall, there was only the bowling glove in the early 60s, but everything that's available now seemed to be available in the early 90s.
The 'development' of these devices seems to have effectively stopped decades ago, but certainly not the 'development' of balls and lane conditions.
Will be interesting to see what you find in 'Pin Action.'

You may notice that I didn't even have a Glove, in the '60's 'photo on my Avatar !!!

 

[androooo]

It would be a sight to see if a bowler such an Androoooooooo actually put one on to make his tenpin, as opposed to taking one off...

Cow

I might do that just for fun

Haven't needed a spare ball since Rachuig 2005... Hard and flat over the fingers and thumb at 35 km/h doesn't move much

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day Androoooo,

Have you started using the kids ramps for your spares with a heavy push.....?

 

[androooo]

My 2 year old son does... He even tries to work out the correct angle for spares.

We have found out though, that if you have the CG of a 14lb houseball on your axis as it comes off the ramp, you can generate 8 boards hook

 

[Shadows Fall]

I've made no secret of the fact that if I was right handed I would not wear a wrist guard and whack the ball for all the reasons Cow mentioned. Being left handed is a whole different kettle of fish. I've used ball technology, science, knowledge and a tonne of practise to get where I have. My game is more about repeating than moving as such (even though on some occassions I've had to move my feet). Until there is a rule saying I cant, I'll continue to play with a wrist guard as my choice.

Good topic John

Like you used to with your old Edge II

 

[bobarb]

to all of you complaining about wrist devices grow up, if you think they are an advantage wear one yourself. it's an indiviguals choice just like putting grips or a bowling slug in your ball.
how many balls do you take to a tournament 4-6 or more, why is this do you think you may have an advantage over your opporsition. this is your choice, and why do you pull out another
ball just to spare. would you ever consider taking just one ball, i don't think so. bowling today has never been much easier, with a different ball for each oil pattern.
no wonder averages are higher and so many 300 bowled today. i'm from the old school over 45 years ago when most of the time you had one ball or maybe two, no thumb slugs and no grips.

by the way i'm not using a wrist support but don't deny anyone using one it's their choice, get on with it you have it a lot easier today

 

[willey]

Jim, the Glove you are referring to was called a Don Carter Glove, the pad on the inside was probably there to push the Ball down the Lane. As I was working in Pro - Shops from 1969 I found they were still available for at least 20 years.

willey

 

[Michael Little]

to all of you complaining about wrist devices grow up, if you think they are an advantage wear one yourself. it's an indiviguals choice just like putting grips or a bowling slug in your ball.
how many balls do you take to a tournament 4-6 or more, why is this do you think you may have an advantage over your opporsition. this is your choice, and why do you pull out another
ball just to spare. would you ever consider taking just one ball, i don't think so. bowling today has never been much easier, with a different ball for each oil pattern.
no wonder averages are higher and so many 300 bowled today. i'm from the old school over 45 years ago when most of the time you had one ball or maybe two, no thumb slugs and no grips.

by the way i'm not using a wrist support but don't deny anyone using one it's their choice, get on with it you have it a lot easier today

Bit rough lol, I don't think anyone is complaining about them, people are providing their opinions. I think a lot of people have made fairly compelling points, that a wrist guard sometimes provides those without decent technique, stability, strength, injuries or similar the ability to maintain a scoring pace equivalent with other players. And others have made reasonable points as well, that a wristguard can actually hinder bowler's progress once they reach a certain skill level. People need to stop comparing a wrist guard to things like other equipment which is more or less necessary in any given sport, I am sure people could do with or without finger grips or slugs, they are usually more of a feel thing, but not necessary to everyone, this is where the similarities finish as a wrist guard has the further affect of increasing peoples skill levels due to a lack of proficiency in their game somewhere else.

Bowlers have been taking 4-6 bowling balls to tournaments for a long time, at least the last 2-3 decades, John mentioned his Dad did so a few posts earlier. You need to remember the evolution of bowling balls, some people don't have the ability to use the same ball first and for spares, the covers on the new gear is usually way to aggressive and due to the nature of todays lane conditions, trying to spare in the corners exaggerates the reaction of a reactive ball due to those being the drier parts of the lane.

Scoring has increased on across the board for a variety of bowlers due to many more things than just an increase in bowling ball technology, but that is another topic.

 

[CHIN]

Bit rough lol, I don't think anyone is complaining about them, people are providing their opinions. I think a lot of people have made fairly compelling points, that a wrist guard sometimes provides those without decent technique, stability, strength, injuries or similar the ability to maintain a scoring pace equivalent with other players. And others have made reasonable points as well, that a wristguard can actually hinder bowler's progress once they reach a certain skill level. People need to stop comparing a wrist guard to things like other equipment which is more or less necessary in any given sport, I am sure people could do with or without finger grips or slugs, they are usually more of a feel thing, but not necessary to everyone, this is where the similarities finish as a wrist guard has the further affect of increasing peoples skill levels due to a lack of proficiency in their game somewhere else.

Bowlers have been taking 4-6 bowling balls to tournaments for a long time, at least the last 2-3 decades, John mentioned his Dad did so a few posts earlier. You need to remember the evolution of bowling balls, some people don't have the ability to use the same ball first and for spares, the covers on the new gear is usually way to aggressive and due to the nature of todays lane conditions, trying to spare in the corners exaggerates the reaction of a reactive ball due to those being the drier parts of the lane.

Scoring has increased on across the board for a variety of bowlers due to many more things than just an increase in bowling ball technology, but that is another topic.

What if my recording says "Breathe in... Breathe out..."? Is that a medical aid..? Or maybe a soothing recording of say, Lakme's Flower Duet, to prevent an outbreak of a certified anger management issue? Interesting one this...

On a more philosophical note, if we ban earpieces, it begs the question of when do we have the intestinal fortitude to ban wrist devices, which flagrantly bring into question the athletic nature of our sport and give a lot more artificial support than any sound recording could? As Michael Frante so eloquently wrote, hypocrisy is the greatest luxury.

(Sizzle, sizzle. The glorious sound of another sacred cow hitting the hotplate.)

Oops theres one.



Jeanette Baker Duel World Cup Champion
Cara Honeychurch World Cup Champion + Numerous WPBA Titles
Amanda Bradley World Cup Champion
Carol Gianotti Numerous WPBA titles + 2011 hall fame
Ian Bradford dominated tenpin bowling in the 80's & 90's
Paul Trotter
George Frelingos

Some of the greatest bowlers Australia has produced. All used during or currently using wrist devices through there career.

I'd be interested to know who is going to inform these people that they gained an unreasonable advantage (were cheating) during there career.

Interesting:

the evolution of bowling balls is fine, but the evolution of other equipment is not.

 

[philby]

Lots of interesting points. I wear a wrist support not to help me increase my average ( which i have no doubt it does) but to enable me to bowl at all. Without it i would have to stop after a couple of games. A long term work injury put payed to me breaking my wrist to get extra revs on the ball. I can do it but only for a few shots and then the pain starts. If wrist supports keep us oldies bowling just a little longer i say go for it.

Cheers
Phil

 

[bowlrig]

Have worked out that in our centre 5.5% of our bowlers use a wrist device of sorts, 20% have shoes with interchangable souls and most profoundly 87% use reatcive bowling balls.
Large thread about a minority. JMO

Rob

 

[grimmace_25]

How were you able to get that sort of data Rob? Not questioning the accuracy, just interested

 

[bowlrig]

How were you able to get that sort of data Rob? Not questioning the accuracy, just interested

It's not that hard James, especially when I know all the bowlers and what they use...... combine that with my ability to use a calculator and away we go.

Just remember it is not only accountants that are good with numbers.

Rob

PS... it is a bit sad when I run into someone that used to bowl here years ago and I can not remember their name but can remember the ball they used.

 

[RobbieB]

Oops theres one.



Jeanette Baker Duel World Cup Champion
Cara Honeychurch World Cup Champion + Numerous WPBA Titles
Amanda Bradley World Cup Champion
Carol Gianotti Numerous WPBA titles + 2011 hall fame
Ian Bradford dominated tenpin bowling in the 80's & 90's
Paul Trotter
George Frelingos

Some of the greatest bowlers Australia has produced. All used during or currently using wrist devices through there career.

I'd be interested to know who is going to inform these people that they gained an unreasonable advantage (were cheating) during there career.

Interesting:

the evolution of bowling balls is fine, but the evolution of other equipment is not.

Rob, why do you feel the need to trot out this strawman? Nobody except you has called these bowlers cheats. Wrist supports are legal, and nobody disputes that. Whether using them should be restricted or not is a matter of opinion - last I heard people are still allowed to have those.

I also have opinions about the evolution of bowling balls (which I can't do anything about), and lane conditions (which, as it happens, I can - at least in my own centre).

 

[nomore4s]

A big problem in our sport atm is participation numbers in both league and tournament play. So I'm all for people using wrist guards to help improve their game and therefore helping them make the next step in becoming more involved in the sport.

It is widely acknowledged on here that having a wrist support can really only help you to a certain point - there are very few top line players that use wrist supports of any kind and imo the ones who do could probably do just as well without them if push came to shove, so I really can't see a problem with having an advantage but if it helps people to learn correct release/hand positions and improve knowledge of the game and the ability to improve quickly and compete in the next level up I think it should be encouraged.