Wrist devices, fair or unfair advantage?

[RobbieB]

Perhaps if we are going to outlaw wristguards, then perhaps the PGA should go back to wooden clubs with metal shafts, professional tennis players go back to wooden racquets, cricket to small thin bats, NRL to old leather balls etc...

Steve, as I said above, there is a difference between various levels of equipment that are used by sportsmen, and a device designed to allow physically less able people to enhance their use of that equipment.

Bowling at it's core is an accuracy based sport, a wrist guard in no way shape or form will improve your accuracy, sure it helps with a more consistent release but if you are inaccurate you will be with or without a wrist guard. Olympic shooters and archers have all sorts of aids to assist their accuracy, but I don't hear them complaining.

If you're worrying about the person you are playing against wearing a wrist guard, then your mind's not in the right place and maybe you should focus a bit more on your own game.

I spent 25 years bowling without a wrist guard and the last 7 with one, and trust me I can leave an 8-10 with or without one

Bowling should be about accuracy WITH power. There have been great bowlers who lean towards one or the other extremes, but both are required in some measure. They don't worry me when I am competing, nor do I care on a competitive level if people choose to use them - they are not illegal and are freely available to everyone. I do feel they detract from the integrity of the sport to some extent though, and I can personally relate instances of competitive sportspeople from other sports being quite bemused and critical that they are allowed in competition. Anyway, thats JMHO.

 

[Roysa]

They should be outlawed for the smell alone

 

[hamster]

Forgive me father I have sinned. Ok I admit it, I’m a cheat !!! I’ve been using the same Cobra wristguard since 1988. I was a full roller before I ventured to the dark side and the rest is history.

Seriously there’s bigger problems with our sport and a piece of metal strapped to someone’s arm isn’t one of them.

Hammo

 

[CHIN]

Forgive me father I have sinned. Ok I admit it, I’m a cheat !!! I’ve been using the same Cobra wristguard since 1988. I was a full roller before I ventured to the dark side and the rest is history.

Seriously there’s bigger problems with our sport and a piece of metal strapped to someone’s arm isn’t one of them.

Here Here.

If this is the biggest problem with our sport that people have got to b!tch about. You truly are a sorry bunch.

With participation numbers dropping over the last 10 15 20 years, tournaments dropping off the face of the earth from lack of entry's, how many more ways can these superstars come up with to force people out of tenpin bowling.
Maybe if people put as much effort into making postive changes as they put into there negative posts.

 

[Shadows Fall]

Steve, Steve, Steve, lol, :slap_1gtk: the sports you mentioned above, is equipment based ie they would relate to improvements in ball technology, pin technology, lane and oiling machine technology. None of those adjustments in the sports above promote an advantage or disadvantage in an individual player of those sports being able to adjust their technique to obtain a higher performance outcome. If everyone used wooden shaft golf clubs, it would be like everyone having to use urethane only balls.

Your second example, you have used sports where wrist braces, arm braces are a deadset requirement for those sports, every competitor uses one because stability is a core part of their sport. In bowling, a wrist guard is usually used to improve performance or increase performance output to obtain a higher result.

Again, my personal opinion, they shouldn't be used, but of course that is easy for me to say as the only time I have needed to use one is to cut my ball reaction down. I am sure a stability styled brace/guard would be ok if people really need to wear one, but the adjustable ones should be goneski!

The problem with you Mick is that you make a very sound and logical arguement that is factually based and even though I am in the opposition camp I find myself agreeing with some of the points you make.

Damn "power" players, it's not my fault my wrist is like a wet 2 minute noodle and starts to ache at just the thought of bowling with out a wristguard

Mind you I still haven't left a 5,7,10 with a Virtual Gravity (twice actually) unlike a current Queensland Rachuig bowler and bowling centre proprietor whose first name is Rob and surname sounds like Buckley

 

[RobbieB]

Tubby, you're gonna be in a world of pain on my next thursday night pick...

 

[John_Velo]

Hi Guys,

I raised the question, and despite the obvious for and against arguments that have been raised there would be a fairly even split.

Do I think that the wrist guard or reactive balls have been the decline of bowling, or the easy scoring conditions.

No.

Let take a look at the 1970’s, I know a long time ago and I am going off memory here so I will be happy to be corrected.

Top sports in Australia were as follows based on the rough numbers I remember.

Cricket- 120,000 registered player
Rugby League – 115,000 registered player
Tenpin bowling 110,000 registered players
Soccer – 105,000 registered players

We all use to sit around the T.V on a Sunday Arvo and watch bowling on the ABC. All of the Australian greats of the time where there, a U.S Pro would be brought out to compete in various events. When was the last time you did that? Probably in the 1970’s. Dad was nominated four times in the 1970’s for Australian Sportsmen of the year award for his results in bowling. To quote a conversation dad had at these events, he would be asked, “what do you play, cricket, boxing what?” When the response was bowling they would simply smile a walk away.

Bowling like many other sports has had its natural predators, unemployment, high mortgages, high equipment prices, social game prices. Then there are the other sports that kids can watch on T.V. Maybe if bowling had finally made it to the Olympics it would be viewed a little differently.

There was a time when you could only bowl league if you were a TBA member, those days are gone, so how does the sport promote itself without a governing body putting up a fight, or being able to go the federal government with a request for a grant when they have no members. I am current looking at doing a Level One Training Course to be able to help others learn. That involves a number of Australian Sports Academy forms to be filled in showing that bowling governing bodies are trying to float the sports legitimacy.

AMF has been offering some great deals lately to get league bowlers to bowl more games.

So is the wrist guard the demise of our beautiful sport?

How many out there are league bowlers complaining about the demise of the sport and are not a member of the very association that is there to promote the sport?

Maybe, just maybe we are all partly to blame for were the sport is today!

 

[Andrew S.]

Hi Guys,

There was a time when you could only bowl league if you were a TBA member, those days are gone, so how does the sport promote itself without a governing body putting up a fight, or being able to go the federal government with a request for a grant when they have no members.

The governing body doesnt have too much leverage after it decides to change membership from compulsory to optional. There aren't too many other sports that are that generous.

 

[magpi17]

I sometimes wear a wristguard and yes it's adjustable, why do I wear it? well for starters I hate it, it's uncomfortable and awkward, but I am 1 of the few people that after a carpel tunnel operation never regained full wrist power as my stage of this injury was truly in the worst category, I am not nor never will be a 200 average bowler, I have not had any coaching I took up the sport at a older age I was 40 when I started and I only started so my son could bowl in a league as he needed an adult with him, but I truly love the game and have spent many dollars improving my game but alas I am only pretty average.
I wear a wristguard mainly on sport patterns to slow me down as I tend to get quick and therefore I get my hand to the side and on a sport pattern this is not good. I must say I never begin to bowl with the damn thing on but even I though I am not the most competitive bowler out there I still like to enjoy my time on the lanes without of cause trying to upset anyone, I can understand where people like Mick and Dousty are coming from but at times we should have a look around and value the people that are bowling and imagine if we put restrictions on little things how many would still be there and more so how many would enjoy there time on the lanes. You still have to hit the right spot and have the right pace and have the right ball and have the right drilling etc to be up there.
If we were to say disallow items of assistance then we would have a game in tumoil I reckon, would we ban adjustable soles as a lot of people don't have them, would we ban the gloves that give some tackiness so your release feels better (I also use 1 of these), me I just want to bowl and enjoy it personally I couldn't care if the person next me was using the frame because he couldn't get to the line himself because he wouldn't want to do it unless he wanted to BOWL.

 

[Toon]

I honestly think the drop is purely financial.

It's the reason why I stop pursuing a career in bowling years ago.

Soccer/Rugby
Registration for a season = up to $300 or so
Adidas Predators = $150

Total $450 max for a year roughly

Basketball and other team sports
Pretty much the same


Tenpin Bowling
Gear = $1500 for all your gear, which we all upgrade regularly.
League = $1000 a year or so
Tournament = where do we start, flights and entry is hefty
Practice = Possible 40 a week for some people. Not may centres offer any real deals for dedicated bowlers.

For a serious bowler, you are looking at $5-7000 minimum a year.


And my best comparison is golf.

Just as expensive for gear and the like.

Now heres the difference. All golf courses offer a yearly membership where you can play/practice as much as you like for one fee.

If all centres offered this, you would find bowling skyrocket in popularity. I think.

Off topic but..dont care.

 

[Roysa]

Toon you arent counting the money you get back from league. I know its not always as much as you outlay but how much do you get back from soccer as an example.

I know that the 44 week league i just finished i ended up with more money than i outlayed, admittedly we won the league and that wont happen every year but my point is most sports will return to you absolutely nothing.

 

[Nighteyes300]

If you play seinors or reserves and a highend club you usually get an income, plus bonus for BOG and club best and fairest, not to mention the bonus for league best and fairest.

 

[amagill]

I sometimes wear a wristguard and yes it's adjustable, why do I wear it? well for starters I hate it, it's uncomfortable and awkward, but I am 1 of the few people that after a carpel tunnel operation never regained full wrist power as my stage of this injury was truly in the worst category, I am not nor never will be a 200 average bowler, I have not had any coaching I took up the sport at a older age I was 40 when I started and I only started so my son could bowl in a league as he needed an adult with him, but I truly love the game and have spent many dollars improving my game but alas I am only pretty average.
I wear a wristguard mainly on sport patterns to slow me down as I tend to get quick and therefore I get my hand to the side and on a sport pattern this is not good. I must say I never begin to bowl with the damn thing on but even I though I am not the most competitive bowler out there I still like to enjoy my time on the lanes without of cause trying to upset anyone, I can understand where people like Mick and Dousty are coming from but at times we should have a look around and value the people that are bowling and imagine if we put restrictions on little things how many would still be there and more so how many would enjoy there time on the lanes. You still have to hit the right spot and have the right pace and have the right ball and have the right drilling etc to be up there.
If we were to say disallow items of assistance then we would have a game in tumoil I reckon, would we ban adjustable soles as a lot of people don't have them, would we ban the gloves that give some tackiness so your release feels better (I also use 1 of these), me I just want to bowl and enjoy it personally I couldn't care if the person next me was using the frame because he couldn't get to the line himself because he wouldn't want to do it unless he wanted to BOWL.

Magpi17,
No one is disputing that anyone who "needs" a wrist guard of some sort, due to an injury such as the one you have outlined above. But there are non-adjustable "support" wrist guards, that offer appropriate wrist support, without giving you a skill you do not posses (not talking about you specifically here, just in general). I have no issue with "support" only type wrist guards, as they do not change anything about how you release the ball, or how many revs you get, etc....

 

[John_Velo]

The governing body doesnt have too much leverage after it decides to change membership from compulsory to optional. There aren't too many other sports that are that generous.

Hey Andrew,

That option is the bowlers choice not to support the sport.

I understand it goes both ways, the governing body must be seen to be doing their job. But with out members there is no job to do at all.

Optional means you look at the benifits and make a choice, or make a choice with out looking at the benifits.

Sorry, off topic. I was going to go on about the Greek Economy, they have a choice of whether to pay tax or not. Now that was a good option.

 

[maxwarren]

If wrist devices were an unfair advantage, then most PBA bowlers would wear one.
No PBA bowler I have seen wears a wrist device.
Therefore, there must be no unfair advantage to wearing a wrist device.

 

[Roysa]

If wrist devices were an unfair advantage, then most PBA bowlers would wear one.
No PBA bowler I have seen wears a wrist device.
Therefore, there must be no unfair advantage to wearing a wrist device.

Ever thought that if 1 of them did they would be absolutely smashed on tour by there so called 'mates'?

As for no advantage, i believe there is for sure, it removes a lazy action or atleast helps. I dont use one and never will, it would annoy the hell out of me and id end up just throwing it in the bag with the loose coins,gum wrappers and powder dust.

 

[Easy Tiger]

I honestly think the drop is purely financial.

Completely agree with you Toon.

To really excel in this sport I think most would need to practice between 50 - 70 games per week to really be a top player (preferably training 5-6 days per week, 8-10 games per day). I know a lot of guys these days don't invest that much time in training, some barely practice outside league at all, but if they were really serious about being the best then they would be practicing close to that much every week. Particularly leading up to a major tournament where you ramp up. 5 or 10 years ago I don't think such commitment was uncommon. When I was bowling at my best a few years ago I was competing in 3 leagues per week, plus practice, plus tournaments. It wasn't uncommon for me to rack up those numbers. Bowling was practically my life and I used to really enjoy it.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone just practicing in my home centre, it is a rare sight these days.

Let's put it in perspective, let's say you bowled 30 games per week practice. At the current 'discounted' rate in my centre, that would be approximately $120 per week just on practice at roughly $4 per game. That's without league, tournament or equipment costs. Some centres offer better discounts for practice, but overall not many have access to game rates much better. I bowl 1 league now which costs $36 per week, for the sake of it let's say we came 10th out of 20 teams (doubles). So for an average result, cost is $1,620, we'd get about $850 odd back. That's still a cost of $770 without worrying about equipment or practice just for 1 league. That's fine for your once a week league hack who grabs a beer afterwards.

On the flipside you can go and play warehouse cricket for $30 per week, train for free at the nets and not worry about whether lanes are oiled, not oiled, trashed, lights on or off with disco bowling, etc. Generally you only buy equipment once with the exception of the cricket bat which might be replaced every 2-3 seasons depending on wear. There is no whinging about wrist guards, iPods, lane conditions, super soaker bowling balls, comments made on forums, how the sport is in terminal decline, tournament numbers, what benefits do I get from the national body, "the good old days" etc etc etc. People just turn up, play their hardest within the spirit of the game, shake hands and grab a beer afterwards. Maybe bowling has lost its way and needs to refocus on the enjoyment part. I don't have an answer as to how to fix the financial side.

 

[da_cowman]

If wrist devices were an unfair advantage, then most PBA bowlers would wear one.
No PBA bowler I have seen wears a wrist device.
Therefore, there must be no unfair advantage to wearing a wrist device.

Mike Scroggins. US Open Champion amongst other victories.
Most PBA bowlers don't use them because of the variety they need in releases. Mike Scroggins has a wonderfully simple game, is left handed and rarely plays a shot with too much belly, therefore, in my opinion, it makes sense for him to wear a wrist guard.

I think most people are missing what the advantage obtained is. I personally believe that once you reach a certain level, especially in regards to timing and ball fit, a wrist guad only impedes your skill. There are obvious exceptions, Scroggins and a lefty of our own over here come to mind. However, for most right handers who see the need to chase the pattern left, and continually change speed and rotation to obtain optimal carry angles, it becomes necessary to be able to change more then just the 'cup' that most wrist guards allow.
The benefit that they do provide is a stepping stone from 140 ave to 200 ave, where they instantly provide a stronger wrist position then what that person may have had before. Luckily, on most house shots, thats all anyone needs and doesn't see, or want, to put in the hard work to take the wristguard off, and expand their skill set. I have no real issues with people wearing them, as I see them as a restriction on your abilities, not on mine. I used to wear one, but unless I obtain an injury myself, as others above have expressed, and simply can not bowl without the aid of a wrist support, I can't see myself putting one back on any time soon.
If you think you can make it with a limited shot variety, then all credit to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

Cow

 

[amagill]

Spot on Cow, and yet again, well said.

Just as you have said above that you feel they impede, more than assist. I must say, I was quite surprised to learn that a few people actually use them to purposely impede themselves, or as Androooo put it, prevent them from "whacking" the ball. I'd never envisaged that as a possible use for these guards....

 

[da_cowman]

It would be a sight to see if a bowler such an Androoooooooo actually put one on to make his tenpin, as opposed to taking one off...

Cow