Melbourne Cup Oiling Pattern

[willey]

A previous post mentioned the amount of times the lanes were washed in the one day would make a difference to the Backend, I can tell him that the more you wash the bigger the Backend. Why? the detergent actually leaves a residue, the more washes the bigger the residue. Most would argue that you cannot get better than squeeky clean but if you have squeeky clean you have residue, a newly coated lane does not have a tacky feel, smooth as, and no squeek.

Poor Strop, he backed down, I'm with you on having light oil conditions, this will eliminate the Reactives, we are only Pandering to the Wan oops sorry Crankers and thier reactives.

willey

 

[AdrianS]

Of course 10 yr ago when a lot of majors wre still bowled on dust people would keep throwing those Danger Zones and Cuda/C's to the bitter end no matter how scorched they got. Ah well, i've stopped worry about ratios, volume and stuff these days. I'm just going back to bowling!! THS, Sport or PBA conditions, a lane is just a lane to me.

 

[jason_doust]

Willey, you are bang on with regard to the lane wash. Anecdotal evidence has backed this theory up since the days backends were washed by hand with a Brunswick Key.

But so far off with regard to low volume patterns. The only positive to come from those is a reduced number of out of ranges, but modern cover and core technologies make out of ranges pretty rare these days as the pins keep falling over now.

Low volume patterns would not protect the lane surface from today’s gear. Unless you can get all reactive resin balls banned, we are stuck with high volume patterns or the destruction of a very expensive capital item – the bowling lanes.

We had low volume patterns in the 80’s. Remember short oil – 15ft buffed to 25? They were crap and the lane surfaces got chewed up in record time.

As for name calling, talk to different style bowlers who are competitive at the national level and you’ll find out which ones know what they’re on about. You shouldn't be be surprised just how much technical knowledge it requires to cover a lot of lane and stay competitive out there. It's usually harder than picking up a hook-in-the-box and playing the wall.

 

[willey]

Just said Tongue in Cheek Jason, I admire the dedication to play that way but I still don't think we should pander to it, we will get to the stage where only the Crankers will score, is this the right way? I predicted that if we went too far that the Spinners would be the one's scoring but the recent World Champs proved me wrong when the Spinners scored on the short oil pattern.

As for the lanes wearing out I never seen any evidence in all the years I worked in Bowling Centres, not too many Bowlers had aggressive cover balls for house patterns, as the ball was useless. Besides that I also drilled most of the Equipment the bowlers used in my Centres and I drilled 95% plastic, so the House shot should take into consideration that 95% of bowlers are using Plastic and for them to develop in to future Tournament bowlers they must be able to develop some Hook or they will never score and worse, never compete.

willey

 

[strop]

As for eighties having short oiling patterns I am sure there were a few, but for the ones I laid down there were not.
I agree it's getting to the point where certain bowlers will expect or dictate the amount of oil that is laid, but I think we should try and find a balance between both. While there are a few that would like patterns laid like they do overseas but to most of us that aren't that good or don't get to travel over there shouldn't also expect that either.
While I personally don't really care, cause I will bowl on what ever is supplied, I am sure there are those against setting up conditions favorable for the young guns, power players....whatever?

Plus if there is a short oil condition nowadays does it mean the power players might struggle? I know it won't hurt the synthetics lanes like they did presumably back then?

Tony

 

[tonx]

Plus if there is a short oil condition nowadays does it mean the power players might struggle?
Tony

Have you not seen the results of the last 5 years of bowling in Australia?

Right Hand Power Players struggle to win enough as it is. Australian conditions have NEVER favoured the higher rev bowlers. The patterns are short and dry enough as it is.

The only reason you see Walshy, Brando, Jarrod and Belmo win occasionally in the left hand strokers paradise, is because they really are that good! They have proven this every single time they go compete against the worlds best!

Strokers have at least 95% of the ball market targetted at them with hook in the box core/cover combinations, time to move our lane conditions up with the rest of the world to compensate for these changes!

This doesn't mean shut out the strokers completely, it just means they have to be more accurate while providing their own hook! There is more than enough gear out there to help them do this!

While there are a few that would like patterns laid like they do overseas but to most of us that aren't that good or don't get to travel over there shouldn't also expect that either.

Do you think if people had the chance to experience these types of conditions where accuracy is actually required, as well as ball rotation without having to hurl the ball down, that they would become better bowlers?

Changes that need to be made to keep up with countries that are getting it right...

1) Flatter patterns for accuracy and sparing.
2) More oil overall to make bowlers slow their shot down and ROLL the ball.
3) Tournaments with lower cost Re-entries and shorter blocks.
4) Ability to practise on the patterns before the event.
5) Oil past 30ft (and I mean the actual oil pattern, not just the buff)
6) Lets make the game exciting!

/me gets off his soapbox..

p.s. Can't wait till 1st of July

 

[bm2]

p.s. Can't wait till 1st of July

WHY????




nosey, aren't I???

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Changes that need to be made to keep up with countries that are getting it right...

1) Flatter patterns for accuracy and sparing.
2) More oil overall to make bowlers slow their shot down and ROLL the ball.
3) Tournaments with lower cost Re-entries and shorter blocks.
4) Ability to practise on the patterns before the event.
5) Oil past 30ft (and I mean the actual oil pattern, not just the buff)
6) Lets make the game exciting!

5 out of 6 of these "criteria" are in force at the US Open with one glaring exception as highlighted above. The condition is a flat (and I mean 1:1 flat!) and oiled to 40 feet with no buff. However it favours the strokers in the main because it does not open up any kind of swing shot. I found it favoured my type of game because I could square up and play with speed. Only a major choke after the first day prevented me going further in the event. Flat patterns are not necessarily going to favour the power players, indeed I think they will favour the strokers more, at least until the power players all manage to open up a bit of a track area. In short format events, this area will not have time to open up.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonx
p.s. Can't wait till 1st of July


WHY????




nosey, aren't I???

I believe that is when Victorias Sport Series begins.

 

[tonx]

Yep, the first sports event.

Brenton, it's interesting you mention the US Open pattern flat 40ft.... This seasons winner was Pete Webber (Swinger), possibly the greatest ball "Roller" of all time.

Other bowles included D-Entremont (Tweener), Jeff Carter (Power Player), and WES Mallott (Power player).

Last year Tommy Jones won on it, being one of the most powerful bowlers in the world

The year before had Mike Devany (high rev tweener/cranker) Walter Ray (Speed dominant stroker/ tweener) Mika Koivuniemi (Very Accurate tweener with great loft) Patrick Allen (Left handed Stroker/Tweener with lots of speed) and winner Chris Barnes (Mid to High end tweener)

03-04 had Osku, WRW, Brian Voss and Barnes, and PDW giving a great mix of Old school and New retro bowlers. All of them again "ROLL" a great ball.

Mid Length flatter patterns only favour those with a consistent release, ballpath and speed, as well as great timing and balance. Shorter flatter patterns favour those that are a little more speed dominant, and longer flatter patterns favour those that are a little more rev dominant.

They all require something that I hear used to be required "Back in the day" and thats SHOTMAKING! Is this not what the sport should be about?

Cheers!

p.s. if anyone wants any of the PBA telecasts on these patterns, please let me know

 

[AdrianS]

Still not convinced about shorter formats, to me theres nothing better than 'sacking up' and bowling 12 qualifying games or 15 matchplay games straight. Longer formats ask more questions mentally of bowlers and rememeber weaker balls are made for a reason!!(and its not to sit there in the bag while you keep throwing one of your 'sponges' on the dry and bitch!!)

 

[jason_doust]

Willy, you say “95% of bowlers are using Plastic and for them to develop in to future Tournament bowlers they must be able to develop some Hook or they will never score and worse, never compete.” A good sentiment, but somehow the answer to this is to lay less oil? I don’t get it. Laying less oil is not going to stop them buying stronger balls. When Brunswick made the Edge in 1980-something, I asked the question “How strong can we make the balls and how weak will we make the bowlers?” Drier lanes didn’t stop the sales of the biggest hooking pieces on the market, (which would be spare balls today) even in the driest houses. Therefore laying less oil would lead to an even lower capacity to hook the ball than we currently see (as it did then), because players would still use the biggest gear. They would adapt into chuckers. By laying more oil, we can direct the adaptation toward rolling the ball and continue to produce competitive players.

Adrian, you say “theres nothing better than 'sacking up' and bowling 12 qualifying games or 15 matchplay games straight. Longer formats ask more questions mentally of bowlers and rememeber weaker balls are made for a reason!!” I agree wholeheartedly. I love long formats and the demand they place on players. If only we had an alternative to oil that didn’t get so damned chewed up. There’s only one group of people that like long formats more than me – lefties. They know we’ll chew the hell out of the RHS heads and end up further left on the approach than where they’re shooting their 10 pins from in about 12 games. Then they have us on toast as often as not, because the LHS has opened up beautifully by then.

Strop, you say “While there are a few that would like patterns laid like they do overseas but to most of us that aren't that good or don't get to travel over there shouldn't also expect that either.” Does that mean we should force anyone who wants to be a great (or even just technically excellent) player overseas because laying less free friction on the lane would upset the folks who don’t put in the hard work?

Also as for “Plus if there is a short oil condition nowadays does it mean the power players might struggle? I know it won't hurt the synthetics lanes like they did presumably back then?” Only if the short pattern were laid in line with FIQ guidelines and you put the blend on 2-3 board. If it’s much further in on the short, you risk shutting down anyone who rolls the ball well, as they just don’t have enough room across the lane to control 30 feet of dry backend. That’s called a shut out. And yes, it will hurt the synthetic lanes over time as players learn to loft their new big hooking purchase.

Why is anyone opposing something that promotes good shot making, reduces free scores, evens up both sides of the lane a bit and saves all our backs, knees, et cetera from the joys of pitching through the crispy heads? Is having to “roll your own” hook that scary?

We have some of the most exciting youth talent coming through and bad lane conditions would squander all that hard work by players and coaches alike. What a terrible, no, selfish waste that would be to not let the next generation of players be better than we were.

 

[AdrianS]

Yeah Jason, theres the problem we're always stuck with(and have been stuck with for a while) As soon as something gets put on the lanes thats a bit 'thicker'(for want of a better word) out comes the next oil muncher to chew through it so people can 'hook' the ball again, so where does the vicious circle end?

 

[strop]

As Quote

Why is anyone opposing something that promotes good shot making, reduces free scores, evens up both sides of the lane a bit and saves all our backs, knees, et cetera from the joys of pitching through the crispy heads? Is having to “roll your own” hook that scary?

I would be interested to see some of the backs, and wrists and knees of some of these power players when they get a bit older?
But still I assume they will just adjust there game to suit, right!
I'm all for oil, trust me when you get older the more you need.
I just don't think we will ever get it right with lane conditions, too many variables!
And as far as equipment goes, I don't know, I still believe it's made the game easier for some. But that's only coming from as Walshy would say "I'm just a one tournament SACUP bowler" who needs to get out more.
Cheers

tony

P.S. Last post Adrian, couldn't agree with you more!

 

[jason_doust]

Adrian, very good observation and my honest answer is "I don't know." I hope that there will be friction tolerances introduced by the USBC to limit the amount of hook and hit one can buy sometime soon. If bowling balls were golf balls, you could hit 'em a mile!

Strop, like me, I guess they'll all back off slowly. (Mind you, I grew up using 16lb balls, so these lightweight 15 pounders make it easier!) I know what you mean about how heads become requisite as the parts you used to dance with ache these days.

I think if the equipment has made it easier for some, it's not the crankers, as we now have to cover more lane to get to the pocket and have a much shorter length of effective hook before roll out than with urethane. After 18 months back, I still have a hard time believing that the ball will make it back from some of the angles I am forced to play. It plays with my head to be aiming into the gutter at 40ft in order to strike. The equipment is built for strokers. They are the much bigger market and have more use for the friction and extra impact.

I think Walshy said that in anger/frustration. (He's normally such a gentle bloke!)

 

[grahamh]

OK, this is probably where this newish member makes a prat of himself but I have to say that I dont understand this aggressive ball / big hook stuff.

I bowl at several different lanes in the UK, one wood, the rest synthetic. My belief was that the old real wood centre was fairly heavily oiled and the rest were only lightly oiled or not oiled at all. ( I found out otherwise when the oiling machine broke down and the lanes were really dry )

Anyway, I brought a Storm Tropical for use on the lightly oiled lanes as I supposed that was only a lightly hooking ball. It was meant to be a learning experience as I had always used a plastic straight ball until then.

It certainly was / is a learning curve. On the wood lanes I can ( sometimes ) bowl down the 5 board and it will curve in nicely at the back end and do what I want but on the lighter oiled synthetics I have a job to stop it hooking right across and into the left gutter or 4 - 6 pins. Even when I manage to strike it is usually a brooklyn.

Moving left on these lanes is the answer I guess but at the moment it doesnt seem to help much, I have problems finding the break point. They say practice makes perfect but at the moment the more I practice the worse I seem to get.

Bit of a ramble but the point I am trying to make is that it seems to me that on most house patterns ( over here at least ) the last thing you need is an aggressive ball.