2002 Super 8 series ???

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hedley:
Gerald,

I'm afraid one or other of us is missing the point AGAIN!! I think we can both agree that the Koolfoam Stage 1 Qualifying Squads are comprised of 12 games. In your post concerning Koolfoam, you comment "...... and I WASN'T on the lanes for more than 5-6 hours". Gerald, what is the relevance of this comment? Did you think I was suggesting that you (or anyone else, for that matter) were on the lanes for MORE than 6 hours to bowl 12 games? The bowlers in Squad B of the New South Wales Open were not on the lanes for MORE than 6 hours, either!!

For the record, the 59 bowlers in this year's Koolfoam Squad B at Mt Gravatt (30 lanes) were on the lanes for 5 hours and 17 minutes (2.47 pm to 8.04 pm), excluding practice. According to the Entry Form, the Squad was scheduled to start bowling at 2.30 pm ("Or earlier") and to finish at 7.00 pm!!
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Gerald, all my comments about "8-hour Squads" have stemmed from BFCC's proposal (apparently serious), that Stage 1 Qualifying Squads be INCREASED to 16 games in a single appearance. Despite being asked two very simple questions on no less than three occasions, BFCC has assiduously avoided addressing the issue of how the (approximately) two hours extra time required per Qualifying Squad (4 bowlers per pair of lanes) would be fitted into the schedule.

Instead, like Dave Hardy, he has resorted to sarcasm and they have both, perhaps unwittingly, misrepresented my position. For example, in his most recent post, BFCC commented: "hedley ......., I think your (sic) right lets have nice little 8 game blocks then wash and oil ......". Where, in this Topic, have I advocated such a proposition? NO WHERE!! My principle concern has been that if someone suggests a radical change, such as increasing the number of Super 6 Stage 1 Qualifying games to 16 (present maximum, 12) in a single appearance, they should at least have given some thought to the organisational issues involved.

Having read the posts on this Forum detailing the views of the bowlers who are actually out there bowling on the National Tournament Circuit, I suspect that if any Tournament Director is "courageous" enough to take-up BFCC's proposal to introduce 16 games of Qualifying in a single appearance, he will "enjoy" a heavily-depleted field.
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Another way to look at the diminishing tournament numbers.
1/ Most people cannot afford a new ball every couple of weeks,this then puts these people at a disadvantage due to the new balls carrying just about everything,2/most people (even though they put the time in for practice&coaching)realise that to average 220+ just to make the cut is bit beyond a joke.
 
One last thing Hedley
The relevance of my "comments"is that the tournaments that i have bowled in have all been 16 games and none of them lasted any longer than 6 hours(this only a rough estimation as they were a couple of years ago).This includes 5 Junior champion of champions,2 Koolfoams and a few other local tournaments(in the brisbane area).Maybe Ken sheehan can confirm this for me, But when the junior coke was held at clayfield it was made up of four squads one on friday night(this was the overflow squad)and three on the saturday.All squads were 16 games.
The point I am trying to convey is that tournaments used to be 16 games WHICH DID NOT TAKE 8 HOURS TO BOWL.Now I can see where you might have got lured into thinking that 16 games takes 8 hours based upon your data for the N.S.W.OPEN,but that was slow play at its very worst.One hour to bowl two games is just ridiculous.
Till next time
Tryhard
 
Hi Gerald,

Your most recent post raises a number of questions in my mind that I was hoping you might be able to clarify. Can you tell me when you last bowled in the Coca-Cola Junior Champion of Champions and the Koolfoam? Can you tell me in what year these two Tournaments changed to their present format; i.e a maximum of 12 games of Stage 1 Qualifying in a single appearance? Do you know why the Tournament Committee/Director changed the format from a maximum of 16 games of Stage 1 Qualifying in a single appearance to a maximum of 12 games of Stage 1 Qualifying in a single appearance? Have you bowled in any "high-profile" Queensland Tournaments in the last two years that involved 16 games of Qualifying in a single appearance? If so, what Tournaments were they? If not, when was the last time you bowled in a Tournament with such a format?

Regarding your observation that, "a couple of years ago", the Coca-Cola Champion of Champions had three, 16 game (single appearance), Qualifying Squads on the Saturday - were these Squads bowled two per pair, three per pair or four per pair? If they were bowled with some, or all, of the lanes having four per pair, are we (i.e. you and I) in agreement that the games would have taken an average of AT LEAST 20 minutes to bowl (including lane changes at the end of each Block)? If so, then, according to my quick arithmetic, this equates to a 19-hour Day for the Tournament Staff, with the Saturday timetable running something like this:

5.30 am - Arrive at Centre, Check-in and Brief Squad B, move to the lanes and practice
6.00 am - Squad B starts bowling
11.20 am - Squad B finishes (16 x 20 minutes equals 5 hours and 20 minutes)
12.20 pm - Squad C starts bowling (this allows 1 hour to wash and oil the lanes and practice for Squad C - this is the typical amount of time shown on today's Entry Forms)
5.40 pm - Squad C finishes bowling
6.40 pm - Squad D starts bowling
12.00 midnight - Squad D finishes bowling
12.30 am on the Sunday (or later) - Finish for the "day" after entering the final Block scores for Squad D, checking the results, announcing the names of the Girls and Boys that made the cut, printing off the results sheets and wrapping up the paper-work.

Gerald does this sort of timing accord with your memory?

Since first meeting him about three years ago, I've always had the greatest respect for Ken Sheehan but now I understand why so many people regard him as a Legend, both as a bowler and a TD.
 
Dave,

Before I reply, in full, to your 15 August posting, I was wondering whether you read the second last paragraph of my 13 August post. If you did read the relevant paragraph, why do you consider it does not explain, in part (there are at least two other factors I can think of), why a National Circuit Tournament, involving 12 pairs of lanes with 4 bowlers per pair would take longer to bowl 12 games than a Regional Tournament, involving only 3 pairs of lanes with 4 bowlers per pair?
 
G'day Guys,

This post has been going on for a while now..but from memory wasn't the orginal post asking for thoughts on changes to the tournament formats? I think you've probably made your points on how long games take etc etc but generally i don't think anyone really expressed a problem with the 12 games on the Saturday more the possible 23 or 24 games on the Sunday. I would think 12 is fine and probably allows for enough games to be thrown for the conditions to break down sufficiently for most people to have to move a bit change balls or whatever. I don't think any of the bowlers are asking for a ditch..just enough oil that at the end of the day they can still bowl, not chuck which we all know causes injuries..etc etc or more importantly not have to chuck it from the start.
I think small refinements would be the order for the Super 6 as it looks to have been a great step forward and Congratulations should go out to the organisers and sponsers for whats been a pretty good tourney series to date. Why start making huge changes to it now? Cmon there must be about 4000 years worth of bowling experience who log into this forum so instead of arguing lets move forward..
 
well said drew c it is about time this was brought to an end.

lets see if everyone can agree on one format.
12 qualifing stage 1
cut to the top 16 for match play
top 4 step ladder

this should cut the need for 20-21 games on the money day and with less games should lead to more prize money or cheaper entry fee's.
 
Hedley

Thank you for your interest , but I'm getting more and more confused by you. Yes I have read your post(can't say that I have got your point though) but I would still like to know why it takes longer to do the same thing , i.e. bowl 12 games. I seem to have you at a distinct disadvantage in that I have actually been a competitor in this great game that I love whilst you ,I dare to suggest ,have not.

I don't blame you for your apparent lack of knowledge (I'm sure you have the best interests of the game at heart) but I would like you to explain the aformentioned difference in tournaments. I am a bowler and have been for a loooong time so I am confused by your assumption that it is quicker at Hervey Bay than when doing the same thing in a different centre.

To quote Pauline"PLEASE EXPLAIN".
 
Just thought I would throw in my quick views on this topic which has gone double platinum,

BFCC, whilst I'm all for bowling 12-16 games qualifying, do you know how hard it is to bowl 8? I can honestly say and I think you'll find most people will agree, to bowl only 8 games requires unbroken concentration and focus. Every move and ball change is critical. The scores are closer and it places a lot more pressure on bowlers to bowl at their best and make every shot count. When I bowl 12-16 I can afford to have a small lapse in concentration and bowl a 180 or so because I know as soon as I line ip I'll be shooting the house down. How many times have you seen Carl or Mick start with 170,160,190, 260,279,250, etc etc. When the qualifying is only 8 games you can't afford to bowl those low scores.

In Australia more games means more chances for the better bowlers to come home strong. Anyone can be competitive over 8 but who can keep up with Australia's best over 16????

Hedley, after reading your numerous posts I still have no idea what your point is exactley. However I can say that I have never really had a problem any where in Australia with slow bowling. Anymore than 4 to a pair is ridiculos, we should be allowing for 4 in the tournament planning so things run on time, all the time.

Finally, I would like to a see a 10 game qualifier cutting to a top 20 for Sunday. 19 games of head to head matchplay, 30 for a win, NO STEP LADDER, all pinfall carry over. Ideally 2 days of qualifying totalling 20 games but I still would question the support in Australia if your tried to host 6 major events over 3 days each.

Thats about it for me
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One other problem with only 8 games is how would you make everyone bowl on all pairs and make everything as even as possible. I'm sure that those of us that bowl have all copped a bad lane draw from time to time ,but wouldn't only 8 games make this worse? Also imagine paying 300 odd dollars, getting a bad pair that not everyone else was going to bowl on, and only having 6 more games to make it up????

I think that the number of games started to be reduced in an effort to keep prize funds at the same level and not increase entry fees. Not so bad a reason really but my preference would be more games not less.

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Hi all
The following are a few Questions that I have no answer for.
What about better sponsorship?How could the Tournament's be better funded?If (better) sponsorship is obtained how can it be maintained?Probably my most important question is How could our game be pitched to any potential sponsor as a worthwhile endeavour?Is there any sort of tax benefit in sponsorship?
Maybe some of the sponsored bowlers could give some answers?i.e.How they marketed themselves to their sponsors?
Till next time
tryhard
 
Another thing (That i will probably crucified for ).What about the banning of smoking?Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against people smoking That is their choice but, maybe to entice more people to this game maybe this is one area that needs to be looked at.It will probably happen sooner or later anyway,A few suggestions could be to have no smoking in or around the players area,have designated smokers/non-smokers sections.
Just a thought
Till next time
Tryhard
 
MAKE SURE THERE IS A NON-REUNDABLE DEPOSIT TO BE INCLUDED WITH ENTRIES. AFTER BOWLING IN THE 2001 BAROSSA CUP, THERE WERE SEVERAL BOWLERS(MOSTLY SA) THAT JUST DIDN'T TURN UP. I MEAN IF THERE WAS A DEPOSIT OF $50.00, IT WOULD BE USED IN THE PRIZE FUND. INSTEAD OF SEEING IT CUT BACK CONSIDERABLY. IT HAS BEEN A GREAT TOURNAMENT OVER THE YEARS AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT DISAPPEAR BECAUSE OF A LACK OF NUMBERS. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS A THE VIC CITY CHAMPS OR SOMRTHING LIKE THAT ON, SO THE REGULAR VICS DIDN'T TURN UP (FRANK DID THOUGH). THIS BRINGS UP ANOTHER POINT. THE 2002 TOURNAMENT CALANDER SHOULD BE SET AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, SO THE "LITTLE TOURNY'S" CAN BE FIT AROUND THE BIG ONES. ONCE AGAIN ITS THE BIG GUY AND BIG TOURNY'S THAT ARE SPOILING IT FOR THE LITTLE ONES. LIKE LAST YEAR, THE BAROSSA CUP (WHICH HAS BEEN HELD ON THE SAME DATE 4 SEVERAL YEARS) CLASED WITH ANOTHER "BIGGER" TOURNY SOMEWHERE ON THE EAST COAST, BY NONE OTHER THAN FRAWLS. I MEAN, A LILLE BIT OF COMMUNICATION WOULDN'T GO ASTRAY SOME TIMES, ESPECIALLY OVER THE SA/VIC BORDER. WELL I THINK I'VE HAD MY SAY. GOOD LUCK AND KEEP ON BOWLING
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It is confirmed, the 2002 Super 6 is going ahead. Dates to be announced soon.

2 x Sydney
2 x Melbourne
1 x Queensland
1 x South Australia

See you all at the SPC

George
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gerald Cox:
Another thing (That i will probably crucified for ).What about the banning of smoking?Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against people smoking That is their choice but, maybe to entice more people to this game maybe this is one area that needs to be looked at.It will probably happen sooner or later anyway,A few suggestions could be to have no smoking in or around the players area,have designated smokers/non-smokers sections.
Just a thought
Till next time
Tryhard
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How about banning it altogether from bowling centres ? How are we supposed to be recognised as a sport whilst when you enter a bowling centre you leave smelling like **** ? I know some of the southern centres have taken the example and leading with it .. but centres in some places (especially Queensland) should smarten up their act.
 
Hi Graham
Baby steps (start small then go for the step of the total ban )!!!
Moving Smoking away from the players area would be a good place to start (Just my views).
Till next time
Tryhard
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And it's about time some of our coaches smartened up their act with regard to smoking. I know several Level 2 coaches who are practically chain smokers.

Not good enough. If they are going to preach fitness then they should practise it.
 
I guess we down south are the lucky ones.

You haven't been able to smoke in a bowling centre for quite some time now. I must say that when I went and bowled in a ladies tournament in Brisbane I was very peeved off at the fact that smoking is still actually allowed in bowling centres - and down on the lanes while you are trying to bowl.

Brought back good old memories of trying to bowl in Asia through the smoke haze!!!!

Regards
Sue Cassell
 
Correct me if im wrong but smoking has been banned in AMF centres in Victoria since 1 July. This is due to govt regulation with regards to selling of hot food. Smoking is banned in NSW centres since last year some time. Most refreshing to leave a centre not smelling of cigarettes.If AMF can do it in 2 states why not all of them. If you guys are serious about banning smoking do what we did and ban it from the players area altogether. This was voted on during our reformation meeting and enforced for the last 2 years. Believe it or not it actually worked.
 
It was a bold move from AMF in Victoria to remove the availability of smoking in bowling centres.

A lot of people threatened to leave leagues because they werent able to smoke and bowl, because they said it relaxes them (even after you argue the fact with them that it in fact increases their heart beat). It doesnt really matter now anyway, because the hardcore smokers go out for a ciggy after each game anyway, so it doesnt seem to bother them that much.

I spose it doesnt help when the general public have a such a narrow minded view about bowling. When people ask you what sport you play, and you respond with bowling, they tend to compare you with icons like Al Bundy, Fred Flinstone and Homer Simpson.

Why does AMF care anyway? They are in it for the patronage, and people off the street pay twice as much as the league bowler does, even though the league bowler comes back over and over and over again.

But I must congratulate AMF Victoria on their decision. Its unusual not to be asked by my parents if ive taken up smoking after bowling 3 games on a Wednesday night.
 
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