2002 Super 8 series ???

[Michael Little]

Jeff, I dont think I missed the point at all. For once I agree with George, I think you have lost the plot. Do you honestly think it is better to see a condition break down and watch bowlers throw their shoulders and backs out, which by your definition would require more skill, or to play games over a shorter period with the condition holding up where players can continue to make shots where their timing is repetitive and consistant which is what I thought was the basis for attaining a higher skill level in this sport. I personally dont mind bowling a lot of games over the course of the day, I dont mind having 12-16 games qualifying but I can guarantee you that I dont always like pelting the ball down the lane for the last 6 games of a tournament nor using plastic to stay in touch with the top. I have always thought that the old Melbourne Cup formats for matchplay were good where a reoiling break halfway was scheduled. I think the main focus is that of playing so many games on the same condition during matchplay. Plus how can you say that Koolfoam presented a good condition? Maybe it was fair in the pattern it represented but I had truly forgot just how dry in general QLD was. After not moving left of 15brd for sometime, it threw me out to have to play 30brd with a hell of a lot of pace. Playabe it may have been, for all of 4-5 games. AMF admitted that they made a mistake plain and simple. We are not bowling in the era of urethane anymore where it did require continous skill if lanes broke down, today with these agressive balls it just requires a lot of pelting. The lanes just arent going to hold up to these balls, even the new urethane ones being released. Believe me, I prefer to bowl on a tougher scoring shot which does require more thought and effort into playing your shots, but I dont want to break my back doing it for 8 plus hours a day. And to answer Geralds post, most major tournaments require somewhere in the vicinity of 16-24 games for the 'money making day'. Jeff how can that add to the skill of the game?

 

[Graham]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew S.:
Any news regarding the Bankstown meeting?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes : there was a small discussion that took place - Tony Goodwin attended and was quite open in his discussion.

The main things we found out were :

2002 will see the AMF Super Six again, however one of the current events (Canberra) MAY be dropped from the schedule and replaced with another (possibly Sydney). AMF are also working towards breaking the tournaments up so that they would be spread out over a greater period of time.

This is all not confirmed as yet but was one of the issues AMF were discussing this week at a board meeting.

 

[dwambo]

Gday Graham,
If Canberra is going to be cut next year then why don't they give another tournie to QLD for the super six..Seems that QLDers do all the travelling, how about sharing it around a bit more.

Also it would be best to leave it as a super 6 not 8.And why do all tournies have to be made so top heavy????Sure it is great for the ppl who run in the top 10, but maybe this is why we are losing bowlers in this sport.Think of the bowlers that r in all of the events just missing cuts or cash.Maybe if the top 5 places were bought back just a little and the payouts were were taken down a little more then ppl may bowl more of these events.
I am not trying to disadvantage the great bowlers that we have, but try to encourage the ppl who r almost there and just need that little push.
As for the coments from jeff,,Mate I see your point but things have changed in this sport and ppl want to be able to shoot high scores on betta conditions.This may not be liked or agreed by everyone out there but the ppl on this sight on the conditions set down now days prove this.
As for Frawls.......I don't agree with starting so late just so u can get to see the town (or hit the piss the night b4).There r plenty of other weekends in the year to do this.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

 

[GeorgeF]

I think scrapping the 6 games in the morning, make it the top 20 go through to matchplay (pinfall carry over). Have a lunch break after 10 and oil the lanes again. Add a step ladder if there is TV, if there is no TV, leave the results as they the are. The best bowler deserves to win.

G

 

[Dj bruv on da mix]

Just thought i would put my 3 bobs worth in,
my personal opinion with this topic is the way bowlers bowl 20 odd games in a day is fine it may be tuff but im sure it wasnt ment to be easy!!.I no this aint football but u dont see the administrators cutting back 2 3 quarters because its hard work or people r getting injured or **** like that.I
dont mind the extra games(if i actually get the opportunity 2 make a cut) but i spose u have 2 look at it in the context of "value for money" because i dont think we have a enough top line bowlers that make top 10's reguarly to justify say $275 to enter and u get 12 games and thats it.For example this years Melb cup after Qualifying i was 26th or something but because of the 6 games the next day i was maybe a chance and i will defiantly be back there 4 more "remember value 4 money"

Just my 3 bobs worth!!!

 

[bfcc]

to george and mick , no i don't think i have lost the plot,it maybe that i am from the old school and yes things have changed but i was just putting up my opinion about qualifing staying at 12-16 games.and yes the koolfoam condition was fair ,i never said it was good but it was fair to both left and right handers.
now george i dont mind you disagreeing with my thoughts, life would be boring if we all agreed, but not once have i said that you should have to bowl 20 games in one day .and yes i think fitness and skill should be part of bowling if you want it to be consider a sport!!

maybe we should all read the post carefully before replying to them .

 

[kagg69]

Hi everyone,
just thought I would throw in a few comments. The topic at the moment is the number of games, at the Junior Nationals this year for the Masters, on day 1 the kids had to bowl 6 games in 2 blocks. If they made that cut they then had to front up the next day and bowl further 3 game blocks and double elimination. At the end of the day my daughter Sally had to bowl 18 games to finish 2nd. The lanes were not oiled through the day. To say it was tough is an understatement and injuries were many and varied from torn hands to torn ligaments(in Sally's case) and these were Juniors! I feel that less games in all tournaments would mean more skill and less chucking of the ball because at the end of the day it seems at times the harder you can throw the ball the more pins you knock over.

just my thoughts Sandre

 

[DrewC]

May or may not be true but going back a few posts regarding dropping Canberra as a super six...Do us Canberrans a favour please don't. We've got one tournament a year that AMF holds which we don't have to travel to, and we all know how nice it is to pack up from bowling and have a short drive home don't we? Canberra is in the middle of everywhere so doesn't seem a bad tournament location to me...if the players form up north don't like the cold then i'm sure noone would object to having it earlier or later in the year

Anyway that's enough from me..Catch ya all later!

 

[CSP]

I have travelled to the Canberra Open for the last 6 years and have enjoyed the travel and the event every year.
I agree that the Canberra Open not be dropped from the AMF Super Six Circuit next year.

 

[milkman]

May I put my balls on the line now and say ... a left hander will NOT win the SPC at Moorabbin. :^)

About time a rightie wins for once, and its a traditionally favours the right even after a hell of a lot of games bowled.

 

[Magoo]

How about this as the format for matchlay?
Cut to the top 20,have 1-10 play each other and11-20 play each other(MAXIMUM OF 9 GAMES)top 4 bowlers from each matchplay round advance to the stepladder.This format seemed to work well on the pro tapes that i have watched from the last couple of years also reduces the games bowled on the "money day"fron 20+ to 16 maximum(9 in matchplay and 7 in stepladder =16).Any thoughts?
Till next time
Tryhard

 

[Graham]

well it doesnt exactly reward the bowlers who finish in the top 10 miss out because they lost to the top ranked bowlers, whilst the people in the 11-20 bracket are knocking up wins against the lower bowlers. Reason why they are in the bottom bracket is because they havent been able to score as well as others on the condition.

Maybe Top 10 matchplay after 16 games qualifying in 2 lots of 8. Then it might mean something to make the matchplay. Sure still pay to 32nd or whatever but dont make them come back on the 2nd day.

 

[Hedley]

Gerald,

On an "overview" basis, I like your concept and reckon you are on the right track with any idea that helps to cut back the number of final-day games to a more reasonable figure. Turning to the "detail", I suggest the following format, which is somewhat less favourable to the bowlers qualifying in 11th to 20th spots:

1) 1st to 5th and 16th to 20th form Pool A, with 6th to 15th in Pool B.

2) The Top 5 from Pool A and Top 3 From Pool B, progress to the Step Ladder Final.

The number of games in the Stepladder Final could also be trimmed down using the following format (or a variation thereof):

Game 1 - To be played between the bowlers qualifying 6th, 7th and 8th, with the Winner progressing to Game 2.
Game 2 - 4th and 5th play the "survivor" from Game 1, with the Winner progressing to Game 3.
Game 3 - 2nd and 3rd play the winner of Game 2.
Game 4 - 1st versus the winner of Game 3, with or without a repechage.

In addition to reducing the maximum number of "money day" games from 16 to 13 (excluding repechage), this format has the advantage that the top qualifier only has to sit around for 3 games (45 minutes) rather than 6 games (90 minutes), before playing the Grand Final.

 

[Jez]

hey all
I disagree with there been more than two ppl in a step ladder it is not fair for the highest ranked player. They could be in front by a mile then drop 2 places in one game. With 2 in the step ladder at least u can only drop one place.

it happened to me in Youth International i finshed 3rd after 15 games then played in the step ladder and dropped to 5th after being in front of 4th by 150 pins.

I think there are alot of good ideas coming up but alot of complicated ones. We are agree we have to drop the amount of games so lets just start with that skip the 6 games in the Sunday mornings and just have a stright cut to 16 maybe once cut to 16 play 4 games then cut to 10 or 12 or something like that.

 

[Hippy??]

I think that you are all missing BFCC's point in regard to skill. If I'm on the right track he is talking about adapting your shot to the conditions on the day. In other words if the lanes are dry why keep throwing the ball with a lot of side roll?? If you throw it slow enough and with enough side roll then 60 feet of oil isn't enough. But yet you see this type of idiotic thinking at tournaments all the time.

The skill is in being able to throw the ball more than one way instead of just getting out another cheat ball to get it down the lane. As Frawls said ,it would be good to get some skill back into the sport(I think it was him). There is more skill in being able to change your speed ,release ,roll compared to just changing balls. If Cara is wining because she only throws so many rev"s then why not throw it the same way? The answer is pretty obvious in that most out there can't.

 

[Hedley]

Jez,

Based on your logic, the Step Ladder concept is not fair, FULL STOP. The highest-qualifying bowler could be 500 or more pins ahead of the nearest opposition after 33 games and yet drop from 1st to 2nd on the strength on only one or two games in the Step Ladder. Why is this potential outcome of less concern to you than finishing 4th in Qualifying and then dropping to 6th after the Step Ladder?

 

[Hedley]

BFCC,

Can you confirm/clarify a couple of points for me:

1. When you advocate bowling up to 16 games of Qualifying, it is my understanding that you are talking about doing this in a single continuous sequence on the one day, with no break between games and no re-oiling of the lanes part way through the 16 games. Is my understanding correct?

2. If my understanding is correct, do you envisage having four bowlers per pair of lanes (8 hours per Squad), or two bowlers per pair (5 hours per Squad)?

3. If there are four bowlers per pair of lanes, do you consider that you could fit two Qualifying Squads into a single, 17-hour, day? (This would involve starting at, say, 7.00am and finishing at midnight, provided there are no major equipment foul-ups.)

4. Let's assume the ratio of right-handed to left-handed bowlers in a Qualifying Squad is 9-to-1, then, in your opinion, do the left-handed bowlers have an advantage in that the condition on the left side does not break down as fast as on the right and the lefties do not have to do as much adapting and make as many changes to speed, release, roll, etc?

5. If the answer to point 4 is Yes, then, in your opinion, does the advantage enjoyed by the lefties increase in other than a linear manner if 16 games are bowled without a break and without re-oiling, compared to having a 1-hour re-oiling and meal break after 8 games?

 

[vi]

Hi everyone,

On format ideas... what about a skins format or a block skins format where you bowl 2 or more games in a block. For each block you would payout from 1st to 10th (say) or whatever. You spread the prizefund out during the block. After the blocks have been played you can take the top 10 or whatever point and have matchpay. And include a stepladder if you want. This way you spread the chances to win SOME money over all games. A consistent bowler will still have the a greater chance at the winnings.

Another format could be to include a single or multiple elimination rounds. After a short qualifying stage you go into elimination process. The elimination process can take a larger pool of bowlers (say top 60 or more/less) and bowl for several rounds with each round 2 or more games. At the end of the elimination process you can play matchplay with the top 16 or whatever number. To add a different perspective you could use groups in the elimination stage and have the top numbers of bowlers from either group to make for the matchplay round.

With these formats you encourage more bowlers (esp part time tournament bowlers) to take part as there are better chances that they can come out with either some money or play further into the tournament or both.

On other matters...

a) I agree that the tournaments should spread over the year so you have better chances of getting more bowlers. Plus, that they don't clash with any other tournaments (major ones - eg. state tournaments) where possible.

b) entry cost around $250 - $300. If you start bringing the cost any higher and you get many bowlers contemplating is it really worth the trip there when you take into account the other costs if it is an interstate tournament. An idea would be to get some sponsorship or discount with motels/hotels/etc near the centre as a partnership thing that the tournament could get sponsorship from those places for bringing people in.

c) better communication of such tournaments or availability of entry forms in AMF centres (even that is hard to find in some places!!

). This part is getting better. With the newsletter that AMF is doing this year. This forum is also great for such things. Hopefully more bowlers will share such info ... otherwise, if bowlers don't know there is little chance they will bowl in them.

Just my thoughts and opinions on the matter

. Keep them coming !!

Vi

 

[bfcc]

hedley ,


1-yes i was taliking about 12-16 games continuous.they are bowling 12 games qualifing now so lets keep it at 12 not reduce it to 8 as was suggested.
as for the rest of the question about the lefties getting a bigger advantage who knows depends on the condition that is put down and the house were the tournament is bowled , as most bowlers now some centres favour lefties some the right. but if a fair condition is put down it should break down on both sides, if that means there is less oil on the left to start the tournament so be it or if the right needs to have more oil in the track area fair enough.

i am not sure what u are trying to prove hedley yes i am a lefty but no i don't want any advantage by increasing games all i want is that the skill factor be brought back into the game , i don't want to watch everyone throw the ball at the gutter and strike all day with out moving or even thinking about having to change balls. let the condition break down and lets see who can adjust .

 

[GeorgeF]

Game_On, that is the most ridiculos comment I have ever heard in the history of bowling. Thanks for making me laugh, you kill me. Keep the humour coming.........