Two Handed and One Handed Deliveries

[pr2010]

So you can change to any ball you wish for a spare, you can change from a big hook first ball to a flattened straight shot or completly change your hook to a back up shot .. but they make the point on must use 2 hands all the time ????... i say if you have the skill and ability go for it.
baseball alows them to bat either left or right handed, Cricket they play a reverse shot or after delivery change stance and i am sure their could be other examples along similar lines
just my 2 cents worth

 

[BigDaz]

I can see your point but I dont se this as a problem. For me to start sparing my 10 pin and 6 pin two handed ( these are the only two I throw the ball straight for could be contrued as sandbagging. ie I'm not playing to the best of my delivery.
No doubt my avg may drop initially, but I also have no doubt in the long term it wont be a problem...I may learn Belmo's "backup two hander if I have to.
I just resent the intent/reason of a bowling rule being used for a purpose other than it was intended for.
@ Jim.....I am acting

lol just be careful, they might make a rule against that aswell

and also, i completely understand the reason to bowl it 1 handed at the corner shots. I think thats fine. Infact im a fan of the 2-handed delivery in general. I think it will help bring more people into the sport. And I will never understand why people think its "unfair" or bad for the game. Not everybody can do it and more importantly not everyone who does it can do it well.

The reason Osku and Belmo do so great is partly because of their power sure, but to be at that level you have to be talented, and im sure even if they were 1 handed bowlers they would still be great bowlers.

 

[dishman]

Well had league night today......went in a bit early and practiced sparing with the tenpin with 2 hands. took a bit of tweeking but managed to flatten out the shot. Best to play by the rules....cant plead ignorance any more.
Picked up 3 for 3 ten pin spares today so quite happy. Felt quite strange though.

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day,

Do a Youtube search on Belmonte throwing back up. A million revs right at the ten pin hooking the ball about a foot. Just like a lefty would.

 

[bowlrig]

maybe invent your own modified 2 handed release for your spares.

Rob

 

[Emery_Paper]

maybe invent your own modified 2 handed release for your spares.

Rob

Indeed I will have to as I have no choice but to play by these rules. I have dabbled in sparing ten pins with the two handed style and the best way for me is to flatten out my hand and use a 10/12lb ball to get the speed required.

 

[dishman]

Try uncockingyour wrist and hold the ball so it's more to the outside of your hand. Use your top hand to hold the ball in place and stop it falling it of to the right.
When you release the ball, try to keep your wrist in the same position behind the ball. This combination kills the revs puts forward roll on the ball ( it needs to plastic).
I also found only putting my fingertips in the ball also helped. I usually have my fingers up to the second knuckle in the ball.
But try things out yourself........I tried different way yesterday.
Good luck

 

[RobbieB]

What happens if you put your thumb in but still swing it (mostly) 2 handed? Basically just rest the left hand on the ball through the swing?

 

[jimcross]

'Samazing -- So many people thought it was wrong: still think it's wrong, presumably, but none of them want to go to any effort or trouble to try to change it.

With a bit of luck, someone else may do something?

No wonder the future of this sport looks so bright!

 

[dishman]

Jim - I've emailed John Coxon and sent an email to the tba fo them to pass on to Cara........but these things take time and as the rule currently stands (directly from John Coxon), the second ball cannot be balled one handed.
So I (we) have to adapt till a clarification or new rule is made. EDIT though if more peopled emailed the tba, even those that dont ball two handed it would probably help
Also Robbie's looking into whether this is a state concern and whether the TBAQ should be involved.
Dinesh

 

[dishman]

What happens if you put your thumb in but still swing it (mostly) 2 handed? Basically just rest the left hand on the ball through the swing?

Robbie....stop coming up with these scenarios
Its hard enogh for the tba to work out what their doing now without making it more difficult or they probably already have made a decision about it........eventually they'll let us know (probably with a tap on the shoulder during a tournament)

 

[Emery_Paper]

'Samazing -- So many people thought it was wrong: still think it's wrong, presumably, but none of them want to go to any effort or trouble to try to change it.

With a bit of luck, someone else may do something?

No wonder the future of this sport looks so bright!

Of course, me and my Dad are trying to get this rule changed. My Dad has sent an email to Cara and we are awaiting a reply.

I still don't understand why the rule was introduced, as John Coxon mentioned it was revised in consultation with the WTBA and the USBC, and the USBC does allow for one handed/two handed combination. What reason was there to go against what is done in America?

In the meantime though, as you said, the rule is the rule and I will have to abide by them in league play at least.

 

[jimcross]

Good God, Doesn't ANYONE understand what I said in my post on page 4 ?

Draft an amendment and find out ( from your local association ) where and how to lodge it so that it starts on it's journey to a meeting with the authority to make and / or alter rules.

Why are you asking, or relying on, someone else to do the work for you?

Believe it or not, there was a time when members of any organisation, in great majority, knew how it worked, and how they could exert their rightful influence on it.

The TBA is no different. It's members can determine how it operates and what it's rules are. If you don't like any rule, or how it effects you - change it. All you need is the ability to draft an amendment, and for the majority to see the sense and logic of your suggestion.

 

[dishman]

Jim
The way I see the situation is that the way the rule is written, it's perfectly legal to bowl both 1 and 2 handed in the same game. It's how the rule has been interpretated by John and the rules committee that needs reviewing. If they want to change the rule......they they should be the one submitting the rule change, not doing things as they see fit behind closed doors. Apparently this rule was passed last June but there has been no correspondence from tba about this interpretation of this rule till I read about it here.
Maybe, TBA should submit a proposal to it's members if it's intends to change a rule.
JMHO
Kind regards
Dinesh

 

[Sumo]

I think the main point keeps being missed. You may have two hands on the ball during part or most of your approach, but at the point of delivery there will only be one hand in contact with the ball. If that is the right hand, you are a right handed bowler. If it is the left hand, you are a left handed bowler.
Nothing else matters, just don't change from left to right or vice versa during a handicap league or a tournament that uses handicap.

The rule doesn't need to be reworded, just interpreted with common sense.

I bowl one handed no thumb but for some spares go back to using the thumb.
I know other bowlerswho have a "standard" grip for their strike shot but will then use a spare ball with more than two finger holes, eg the middle, ring and little finger. This bowler sometimes leaves the middle finger out of the holes for spares to kill the hook.

For all the perceived advantages there are a number of drawbacks with no thumb bowling, including the difficulty of maintaining a set hand/wrist position.

Whatever floats your boat, but jealousy is no basis to force a bowler to modify their technique.

Sumo

 

[Emery_Paper]

I think the main point keeps being missed. You may have two hands on the ball during part or most of your approach, but at the point of delivery there will only be one hand in contact with the ball. If that is the right hand, you are a right handed bowler. If it is the left hand, you are a left handed bowler.
Nothing else matters, just don't change from left to right or vice versa during a handicap league or a tournament that uses handicap.

The rule doesn't need to be reworded, just interpreted with common sense.

I bowl one handed no thumb but for some spares go back to using the thumb.
I know other bowlerswho have a "standard" grip for their strike shot but will then use a spare ball with more than two finger holes, eg the middle, ring and little finger. This bowler sometimes leaves the middle finger out of the holes for spares to kill the hook.

For all the perceived advantages there are a number of drawbacks with no thumb bowling, including the difficulty of maintaining a set hand/wrist position.

Whatever floats your boat, but jealousy is no basis to force a bowler to modify their technique.

Sumo

Exactly one of my points. The rule being interpreted by the very people who drafted them and introduced them into the rule book is a farce. As such the written rule book has no value when the authority can say a rule means what it doesn't say. Shouldn't the writing of and interpretation of rules be made by separate parties?

 

[da_cowman]

Originally Posted by RobbieB
What happens if you put your thumb in but still swing it (mostly) 2 handed? Basically just rest the left hand on the ball through the swing?

Robbie....stop coming up with these scenarios
Its hard enogh for the tba to work out what their doing now without making it more difficult or they probably already have made a decision about it........eventually they'll let us know (probably with a tap on the shoulder during a tournament)

Cassidy Schaub actually does this.

He throws the ball left handed and uses his right hand in the same way that Belmo and Osku do. So this scenario is still somewhat relevant.

Cow

 

[Emery_Paper]

Good God, Doesn't ANYONE understand what I said in my post on page 4 ?

Draft an amendment and find out ( from your local association ) where and how to lodge it so that it starts on it's journey to a meeting with the authority to make and / or alter rules.

Why are you asking, or relying on, someone else to do the work for you?

Believe it or not, there was a time when members of any organisation, in great majority, knew how it worked, and how they could exert their rightful influence on it.

The TBA is no different. It's members can determine how it operates and what it's rules are. If you don't like any rule, or how it effects you - change it. All you need is the ability to draft an amendment, and for the majority to see the sense and logic of your suggestion.

Emailing the CEO is what Mr. Coxon advised to do if we wanted the rule amended. He also said any consideration for a rule change would return to the Rules and Ethics Committee for review.

In other words, John Coxon will have the final say on any changes. His committe IS the ultimate authority on the matter. So what would it matter if the proposed change jumped through bureaucracy or went directly to the top? It all ends up there eventually.

 

[RobbieB]

Cassidy Schaub actually does this.

He throws the ball left handed and uses his right hand in the same way that Belmo and Osku do. So this scenario is still somewhat relevant.

Cow

Hey Cow,
I actually meant for shooting spares - if the two handers want to throw it straighter, put the thumb in and set up as for a one handed spare but keep the off hand resting on the ball for a while. Not sure how it would work in practise, though.

Jim, contacting the rules and ethic committee is the correct approach. So it's not that no one read your post on page 4, it is just that it is irrelevant to the procedure.

 

[dishman]

Another point is the OZ masters. John (cox on) has stated that since it's an open event, you can throw the ball however they like. But, qualifying is done through the championships whose grading whether D, C or open is based on averages. Would that mean, one would have to observe the tba ruling during qualifying but then be allowed to ignore it during the actual masters?