Two Handed and One Handed Deliveries

[Easy Tiger]

If they try and enforce a silly rule like that then they need to make the same rule for people with robocop wrist guards who take them off to spare corner pins with a weak open release - force them to "keep the same delivery too".

I won't be changing anything, if that's the way they want to go then I'll refer to myself as one handed, as by technical definition anyone with finger holes in the ball and uses them is defined as one handed. A "true" two handed bowler by definition uses no grip holes whatsoever.

As long as it is released on the same side of the body what's the problem.

 

[Roysa]

lets keep it simple...

as long as u dont go past the foul line its fair game...

roll it between ur legs for all i care.

Knock some pins over and get on with it

 

[Emery_Paper]

I had similar advice from TBA last year when I queried the legality of a bowler in a handicap league bowling two handed and one handed in the same game.

The way I understand all this is if it is open competition (i.e. no handicap) then you can bowl left, right or two handed.

The big difference is if you are to maintain an average/handicap then that average can only be obtained and maintained in one form of delivery. Either all left handed, all right handed or all two handed, you cannot mix the styles.

To me this is fairly straight forward, I don't have a problem with it and it is there to ensure fairness for all bowlers bowling in a handicap league or event.

As I said in the OP, should you not also take issue with a bowler that uses a thumbless one handed delivery on the first ball then puts their thumb in to spare? Should the thumbless one handed delivery not be considered a separate style that one should not be able to deviate from?

As far as the TBA is concerned, one can do a thumbless first ball and a thumb in spare ball. According to your thinking this should be an unfair practice.

And it was my thought that the left handed/right handed rule existed because someone's dominant hand will always be more acurate and more powerful than the weaker hand. Someone who has set an average with the weaker hand is then prevented from trumping with their dominant hand when they need to up their scoring pace. Any combination of left and right handed deliveries in computing an average will be lower than the dominant handed average but more than the weaker hand average.

My two handed/one handed combination will net a higher average than if I did pure one handed or pure two handed. As such, why should it be comparable to the left handed/right handed distinction?

 

[da_cowman]

Do you use the same hand to deliver the ball? It's a very simple question. If the answer is yes, then you have nothing to worry about. If the answer is no... then you're doing some illegal (only in the case of establishing a handicap. In open events, you may do whatever you like).

I don't think there is anything there to be tricky about. Rule 213 is insanely clear about it. Plus, as others have already pointed out, a two-handed bowler as we use the term, is still a single handed bowler, they just use the other hand for support for a longer period of time. If you truly believe that teaching yourself two very different ways of bowling, using the same primary hand, is the best way for your scores to be maximised, go for it. Just use the same hand, on the same side of your body and you are completely within the rules.

Without either an adjustment to rule 213, or the creation of a new rule which could specify what EXACTLY defines a 'Two-handed bowler' we can only go with what is there now. Even if a new rule was created, or a current one expanded, I could only imagine the rule stating that when a ball is released, which I would say is when the last part of the hand comes out of the ball (the fingers for most of us) which hand/s have some definite contact with the ball at that point? Which, if we watch Belmo, Osku, Cassidy Schaub to mention a few 'Two-handers', all of them have only one hand in contact with the ball at their release point.

Cow

 

[RobbieB]

Whether the ball is released by Belmo et al with one hand or two is immaterial - the style they use is known as two-handed. The rule doesn't seem very clear, but has evidently been confirmed by John Coxen that it applies to one hand vs two handed deliveries. Personally, I feel that this is a completely unnecessary extension of a rule designed to prevent 'handbagging'. Generally two handers who shoot spares one handed do so because they are more accurate that way, thus there is no unfair advantage to be had. Really it is no different from a cranker throwing a straight ball at spares.
The two-handed style is good for bowlings' exposure in the media, and I don't think this rule is going to help the sport. So, I would encourage everyone who is affected by this - or anyone who thinks it is simply a bad rule - to write a (polite and reasoned) letter/email to Cara and ask that it be reviewed by the Rules Committee and changed. Also write to your State body with your concerns and see if your State delegates can do something about it.

 

[dishman]

Robbie is right.
John has made up his mind on the subject and is not too concerned over the "technicalities" of the two handed bowler delivering it on handed.
So, next stage is to have the Cara and the Rule Committee ask for a rule defintion and/or change.
Apparantly, people complained about this way of bowling and a decision (right or wrong was made).

 

[GeorgeF]

This crazy rule only applies in league where handicap is involved, in open competition you can release the ball with any hand at anytime, hence why Osku can spare however he likes.

I hope TBA review it...

 

[Aussie]

Go Emery LOL Hows your fingers holding up I take it they still get sore?
Emery bowls in a Hcp league thats why all the fuss.
Andy Mckay

 

[jackson93]

I find bowling 2 handed at all spares just gives you a lot more consistency from shot to shot instead of bowling 1 handed hear and there

 

[Roysa]

Sounds like some people are jealous of emery to be perfectly honest.

Sounds like a storm in a tea cup... pun intended!

 

[Elemenohpee]

Emery as much as i dont care for however your bowling 2 handed or not the ppl that have raised the question on this style of bowling have to be listened too..unfortunate for you its not a scratch league and after reading all this i believe sticking to one or the other has to apply buuuuuuuuuuut next year when i have no doubt we all will move to rather id or something similar where it is scratch and your style will have no bearing on the outcome of hcap and any style will be accepted

i dont see a problem with your style i too want to HURT that stupid ten pin for standing up!!!!!

 

[RobbieB]

Unfortunately, the issue is not whether the league is scratch or handicap - the rule relates to establishing an average in league. That means it applies to all league play.

 

[Elemenohpee]

This crazy rule only applies in league where handicap is involved, in open competition you can release the ball with any hand at anytime, hence why Osku can spare however he likes.

I hope TBA review it...

PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP REALLY

 

[BigDaz]

Good luck with the TBA, thats a hard shell to crack. I bowled a 300 and it was not recognised because the event i bowled it at was sanctioned as a travelling league, and "Should" of been sanctioned as a Tournament (even though its a monthly event with scores and averages carrying over). TBA made this rule change about 6 years prior, but didnt inform anybody and our Country Challenge kept submitting paperwork the same as it's always been done. It wasnt until i popped the 300 that they Said "No sorry your paperwork and accreditation is wrong for the event"

Anyway, i can see why they would introduce the rule. To stop people controlling their scoring pace by using either 1 hand all game or 2 hands all game, and then "Turn up the heat" and use the combo to be most effective.

To me thats no different to any bowler sandbagging by say ...... moving 3 boards and hitting buckets and sparing then, then hit the pocket to up the ante.

Point being i can understand the rule, but i thinks its total garbage anyway. As previously stated its no different from somebody using a wrist guard, then taking it off for the 10 pin. Using a heavy oil ball then changing to a Medium oil ball, or even a plastic ball.

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[jimcross]

People,( in majority, certainly not all of you, on this topic ) please do try to think rather than just react.
The rule, I believe in a legal sense, establishes the same conditions for establishing an AVERAGE, for a one or two handed delivery, as it does for a right or left handed delivery.
The rule is the rule whether it's popular or not, or even if it is apparently sensible or not.
The rule is the same for John Coxon as it is for you. It has nothing to do with which century he or you are living in. He has no more power to disregard it than you have. Until and unless it is changed / revoked, etc., by the right constitutional processes, it is the rule and MUST be applied and enforced.
As Captain Fudge pointed out, it effectively does not apply to non-handicap events which are not leagues.
If members of TBA think it should be changed, then ( without looking at the constitution ) I would think that a proposal to your local association suggesting an amendment to replace the current wording of the rule with different wording, or a suggested amendment deleting the rule or rules relating to left / right deliveries or to such parts of those rules relating to one or two handed deliveries.
Such suggested amendments would then go, presumably, to the State body, and eventually to an AGM and be voted on. As I said, I have'nt looked at the constutition -but it would be along those lines.
In essence the TBA rules are the TBA members rules. You can make them or change them. It is not us and them if you don't want it to be. Neither is it John Coxon V/S the rest. So anyone who feels strongly about it - don't winge, ACT.

 

[amagill]

I said this in an earlier post, but I believe, this is all that needs to be taken into account:

"If the ball is delivered on the right hand side of the body, the delivery will be deemed to be a right handed delivery, regardless of whether any holes drilled for gripping purposes are used or not.
Similarly, if the ball is delivered on the left hand side of the body, the delivery will be deemed to be a left handed delivery, regardless of whether any holes drilled for gripping purposes are used or not. "

 

[Shayne Melton]

"If the ball is delivered on the right hand side of the body, the delivery will be deemed to be a right handed delivery, regardless of whether any holes drilled for gripping purposes are used or not.
Similarly, if the ball is delivered on the left hand side of the body, the delivery will be deemed to be a left handed delivery, regardless of whether any holes drilled for gripping purposes are used or not. "[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing this was written years ago and is some outdated rule that really needs to be re-written............ Maybe it won't be long be this rule refers to bowling style, rather then left or right?

 

[Shayne Melton]

here is one for you all to figure out for me...............

I bowl 2 handed between my legs. I put my right hands fingers into the ball. Just before I let go of the ball my left hand comes off the ball and I then roll it down the lane. I then have to spare something that is difficult from right handed point of veiw....... So I then put my left hands fingers into the ball and deliver the ball from between my legs..................... NOW, I have not changed the side of the body that I am bowling from, but I have clearly changed something to get an advantage.

 

[RobbieB]

Shane, as the rule is written that would be a perfectly legal delivery. You have not changed the side of the body you release from, nor whether you bowl one or two handed.

It may well be worth the original posters while to check whether the travelling league he bowls in is classified as a league or tournament, given what Daz said. If TBA classify the event as a tourney, the rule would not apply.

 

[dishman]

Anyway, i can see why they would introduce the rule. To stop people controlling their scoring pace by using either 1 hand all game or 2 hands all game, and then "Turn up the heat" and use the combo to be most effective.

.

I can see your point but I dont se this as a problem. For me to start sparing my 10 pin and 6 pin two handed ( these are the only two I throw the ball straight for could be contrued as sandbagging. ie I'm not playing to the best of my delivery.
No doubt my avg may drop initially, but I also have no doubt in the long term it wont be a problem...I may learn Belmo's "backup two hander if I have to.
I just resent the intent/reason of a bowling rule being used for a purpose other than it was intended for.
@ Jim.....I am acting