Scoring pace at junior Nationals?
- Thread starter GeorgeF
- Start date
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
It was certainly pretty easy for some. It strikes me (sorry for the pun) that a lot of players really struggled with the pattern though. Was that equipment, advice, nerves or a combination.
It seems to me that TBA are trying to lay down higher scoring patterns as a way of bolstering future entries. I may be way off the beam here, but that seems to me to be the way it is heading. Maybe foir Shield and the Masters they need to lay down something a bit harder to give the kids a better understanding of where their games are at.
It seems to me that TBA are trying to lay down higher scoring patterns as a way of bolstering future entries. I may be way off the beam here, but that seems to me to be the way it is heading. Maybe foir Shield and the Masters they need to lay down something a bit harder to give the kids a better understanding of where their games are at.
Craig Ryan
Member
Far too high...
The 'best' juniors in the country should have their abilities tested especially during Presidents Shield.
It's sad to look at the averages of the bowlers involved and generalise that "bowler x" carried the best. We will never know who in fact bowled the best.
I'm a big fan of putting out the tough pattern, then we can see who are in fact the best bowlers (junior/youth/adult) are. It's even more critical in what is meant to be the premier teams event in the country.
The last thing these juniors need is more ego stroking, they get enough of that in league.
There comes a time when the stars of the future are tested as to their ability, as opposed to getting the reality check when bowling overseas....
It's any wonder the ability of juniors to spare these days is non-existant...
The 'best' juniors in the country should have their abilities tested especially during Presidents Shield.
It's sad to look at the averages of the bowlers involved and generalise that "bowler x" carried the best. We will never know who in fact bowled the best.
I'm a big fan of putting out the tough pattern, then we can see who are in fact the best bowlers (junior/youth/adult) are. It's even more critical in what is meant to be the premier teams event in the country.
The last thing these juniors need is more ego stroking, they get enough of that in league.
There comes a time when the stars of the future are tested as to their ability, as opposed to getting the reality check when bowling overseas....
It's any wonder the ability of juniors to spare these days is non-existant...
jockey
Member
Have to agree there George.
I thought there would have been a challenging oil pattern laid down but when you look at the pattern that was laid down it is far too easy.
I fail to see how it helps any of the young bowlers who were attending there last Junior Nationals as they will find it extremely hard to make the transition to the senior ranks.
I thought there would have been a challenging oil pattern laid down but when you look at the pattern that was laid down it is far too easy.
I fail to see how it helps any of the young bowlers who were attending there last Junior Nationals as they will find it extremely hard to make the transition to the senior ranks.
We have just had our junior league bowlers return from the Nationals. They all bowled their averages (some just), a sprinkling of medals, and this was the first time away for most of them. They were absolutely thrilled and determined to start saving and training to go away again next year.
For the younger/less experienced bowlers the fact of being away from home, bowling on strange conditions, at times they don't usually bowl etc is enough pressure on them to bowl well. To perform well under these conditions only inspires them to keep bowling and go again next year.
Certainly however I believe Shield/Masters patterns should be more difficult and test the ability of these more experienced (and allegedly better) bowlers to handle the conditions and be able to convert spares.
For the younger/less experienced bowlers the fact of being away from home, bowling on strange conditions, at times they don't usually bowl etc is enough pressure on them to bowl well. To perform well under these conditions only inspires them to keep bowling and go again next year.
Certainly however I believe Shield/Masters patterns should be more difficult and test the ability of these more experienced (and allegedly better) bowlers to handle the conditions and be able to convert spares.
You could have waited a few days before taking the shine off the Shield event and bowlers.
The condition is reflective of the sport as it is now, and this is also happening in the adult/senior events.
Mannah has it right, the championships are to encourage the juniors to achieve, have fun, succeed and stay in the sport.
The Shield is about beating the other teams and the condition is different to the one they bowl on at league or practise. They need to adjust, read the lanes and bowl continuously in 5 man teams with all the hype, yelling etc.
The average age of the shield bowlers has changed over the years and there are more younger bowlers in the Shield Teams. The bowlers enjoy it, the parents enjoy it and the spectators enjoy it.
Leanne.
The condition is reflective of the sport as it is now, and this is also happening in the adult/senior events.
Mannah has it right, the championships are to encourage the juniors to achieve, have fun, succeed and stay in the sport.
The Shield is about beating the other teams and the condition is different to the one they bowl on at league or practise. They need to adjust, read the lanes and bowl continuously in 5 man teams with all the hype, yelling etc.
The average age of the shield bowlers has changed over the years and there are more younger bowlers in the Shield Teams. The bowlers enjoy it, the parents enjoy it and the spectators enjoy it.
Leanne.
Street Racer
Active Member
Yes the scores were high, BUT.... i know for a fact, the lanes broke down very quickly, so you had to be on your adjusting or you would go down very quickly...
9:1 is a normal house shot... yes maybe even a 6:1 or 5:1 ratio would of been better... but at the end of the day shield is more about having fun...
we are losing the juniors because they arnt having fun anymore...
my 2 cents
9:1 is a normal house shot... yes maybe even a 6:1 or 5:1 ratio would of been better... but at the end of the day shield is more about having fun...
we are losing the juniors because they arnt having fun anymore...
my 2 cents
Craig Ryan
Member
I beg to differ... we are losing juniors because it costs too much.
scott
Member
I beg to differ with you Craig we dont pay half as much as some other sports to play so the cost cant be the major problem here.
I think the biggest thing is that the bowlers arnt enjoying it as much as they used to thats the problem I see
Troyza
Flash
From what I've been told of the past, if you made it to shield, you were recognised as becoming the best of the best. It seems this has gone out the window in later years.
In my opinion, i have to agree with a few peoples views here -- that an easy pattern is totally not what shield should be about. If you're going to be one of Australia's finest, why make your claim to fame on a x-mas tree block? (I dunno what was laid down, but i know blocks are easy as pie.)
Not taking anything away from the whole event, but laying down an easy pattern for this sort of thing is only going to lead our future bowlers into a false sense of security, they may be able to bowl exceptional in shield, but then when they hit the hard stuff, they fall will fall to pieces.
As for people not enjoying it lately, try taking a look at how much crap goes on behind the scenes with the organisation & leader ship. 'lol'
In my opinion, i have to agree with a few peoples views here -- that an easy pattern is totally not what shield should be about. If you're going to be one of Australia's finest, why make your claim to fame on a x-mas tree block? (I dunno what was laid down, but i know blocks are easy as pie.)
Not taking anything away from the whole event, but laying down an easy pattern for this sort of thing is only going to lead our future bowlers into a false sense of security, they may be able to bowl exceptional in shield, but then when they hit the hard stuff, they fall will fall to pieces.
As for people not enjoying it lately, try taking a look at how much crap goes on behind the scenes with the organisation & leader ship. 'lol'
Absurd.
Of my personal experience the most rewarding shield I had personally was in 05.
198.. yes 198 ave and I TOPPED ALL STARS! This year... I would have scrapped in the top 35...
It was tough. You had to make the shots and heaven forbid, if you had to spare. you missed a single pin to struggle for 200, not 250.
The emphasis should always be on shot making. ALWAYS!
Later Da Cowman!
Of my personal experience the most rewarding shield I had personally was in 05.
198.. yes 198 ave and I TOPPED ALL STARS! This year... I would have scrapped in the top 35...
It was tough. You had to make the shots and heaven forbid, if you had to spare. you missed a single pin to struggle for 200, not 250.
The emphasis should always be on shot making. ALWAYS!
Later Da Cowman!
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
I've been at the Nationals all week and have watched a fair bit of the Shield and the squads.
Although scores have been very high, the best teams still won through on the day.
The WA guys have been outstanding all week, as have the Vic girls and both deserved their wins, as did the SNSW side overall.
Although scores have been very high, the best teams still won through on the day.
The WA guys have been outstanding all week, as have the Vic girls and both deserved their wins, as did the SNSW side overall.
FLOWER
Well-Known Member
What future bowlers? How do we expect to keep those kids who have bowled 'ordinary' on an 'easy' condition and have their confidence shaken by telling them how easy it was? Those who love the game, will continue on for whatever reason. There are Sports Series now for bowlers to improve their skills (aside from practise, bowling in different centres etc.), good coaching and seminars etc. so the dedicated bowlers will rise to the top.
For the young mortals, the sheer enjoyment of competition, the enjoyment of sometimes beating a 'hero', of bowling a big game in front of an excited crowd and sheer adrenalin rush of the youngies at Shield, surely should be a once a year experience at the very least.
The 'real world' will hit soon enough when these young bowlers will hopefully advance up the bowling ladder - however, it will take a few years for maturity and mental toughness to show for some but for the time being just let the kids ENJOY! George has said that he is now only in the game for the $$$$ - very sad really.
Flower
For the young mortals, the sheer enjoyment of competition, the enjoyment of sometimes beating a 'hero', of bowling a big game in front of an excited crowd and sheer adrenalin rush of the youngies at Shield, surely should be a once a year experience at the very least.
The 'real world' will hit soon enough when these young bowlers will hopefully advance up the bowling ladder - however, it will take a few years for maturity and mental toughness to show for some but for the time being just let the kids ENJOY! George has said that he is now only in the game for the $$$$ - very sad really.
Flower
Totally agree.
well alot has chnaged since i was a junior. When i finsihed 2nd in all stars and averaged 209 in 1995 everyone said the lanes were too easy. Then the next year not one male shot the card 199 was leading, Katie stuart out averaged =everyone with 201.
I think its a bad message to the kids especially when they come and bowl a adult tournament and bowl on a much tougher pattern they will be devistated and not bowl again.
Just my thought.
I think its a bad message to the kids especially when they come and bowl a adult tournament and bowl on a much tougher pattern they will be devistated and not bowl again.
Just my thought.
Everything in perspective:
2 zones NSW Juniors approx 50 roll off
NSW Youth (23 and under, no bottom limit now), 15 roll off
Yes in the glory days there were lots more roll off, but how many adult tournaments are now run in NSW compared to then, how many strong leagues now compared to then.
Shield and the condition is about the current junior bowlers and current participation, no funding or $ support from state bodies or national body, higher entry fees, accommodation etc etc. Parents are still involved with the care of their children and attend.
No comparison intended, just let the sport and current junior organisation chose whats best for the current climate. The young bowlers who are the cream find appropriate coaching/leagues/conditions to improve. The other 60% shield bowlers continue to participate in Centre and area Championships/leagues etc.
Leanne
2 zones NSW Juniors approx 50 roll off
NSW Youth (23 and under, no bottom limit now), 15 roll off
Yes in the glory days there were lots more roll off, but how many adult tournaments are now run in NSW compared to then, how many strong leagues now compared to then.
Shield and the condition is about the current junior bowlers and current participation, no funding or $ support from state bodies or national body, higher entry fees, accommodation etc etc. Parents are still involved with the care of their children and attend.
No comparison intended, just let the sport and current junior organisation chose whats best for the current climate. The young bowlers who are the cream find appropriate coaching/leagues/conditions to improve. The other 60% shield bowlers continue to participate in Centre and area Championships/leagues etc.
Leanne
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
Don't ever see our top bowlers saying they wont bowl a major if they think the scoring will be to high.
They would most likely retort with "the cream will still rise to the top".
I am with Leanne, let them enjoy thier Shield experience for a while before knocking them down a rung or two.
Rob
They would most likely retort with "the cream will still rise to the top".
I am with Leanne, let them enjoy thier Shield experience for a while before knocking them down a rung or two.
Rob
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
One look at the oil pattern could have told you this would be the case... As I said to one of our ACT juniors before he left, "Relax... If you can't bowl on this, you can't bowl!"
For fear of sitting on the fence, it's so easy to see both sides of this argument. I do believe that if the condition is easy for all events, then it should remain so for the President's Shield. Otherwise a lot of kids who don't know any better (and parents) will think "these guys aren't much chop" as they see lower scores than happened all week.
I don't believe in big scoring conditions or absolute grind outs. One's a bit silly and the other's just zero fun and almost always favours the straightest shooters there. There's no doubt that the scoring pace was very high, but it's done now. How much of that scoring pace was due to carry? If the same pattern had been laid on Anvilane in a Brunswick fit out, scores may well have dropped 15 sticks from corner pins and everyone would have said it was on the money, despite being easy to get to the pocket.
Always searching for that elusive happy medium...
For fear of sitting on the fence, it's so easy to see both sides of this argument. I do believe that if the condition is easy for all events, then it should remain so for the President's Shield. Otherwise a lot of kids who don't know any better (and parents) will think "these guys aren't much chop" as they see lower scores than happened all week.
I don't believe in big scoring conditions or absolute grind outs. One's a bit silly and the other's just zero fun and almost always favours the straightest shooters there. There's no doubt that the scoring pace was very high, but it's done now. How much of that scoring pace was due to carry? If the same pattern had been laid on Anvilane in a Brunswick fit out, scores may well have dropped 15 sticks from corner pins and everyone would have said it was on the money, despite being easy to get to the pocket.
Always searching for that elusive happy medium...
