AO scoring pace - is this the answer?

[griggsy]

I mean only being able to put down the patterns like that when there is a certain muber of bowlers to bowl on those patterns.Having a booking of 10 bowlers or more wanting to bowl on those patterns would be worth while to the centre and can also be a way of attracting more people into practice

 

[Easy Tiger]

Griggsy that's true, but then again, the people that we are trying to attract are the people who need to practice on these patterns more than just a week or two before the events, they need much more time than that to feel confident of forking over $300+ for a few games.

I don't know what the answer to that is. What about if George or Brando or someone (and other great bowlers from around the country in their own regions, like Mr Doust in Canberra for example), put on clinics like George has up here, but on some of these patterns. These bowlers could then help others and show them how to play the patterns to score well and stay out of OOB areas and teach breakpoints, etc. It's easy to say something like "short pattern = outside, long pattern = inside", but it's another thing to know how to actually do it.

 

[dishman]

It is not worthwhile for most centres to put down a specific pattern for one or two people. Especially when they have a lane maintenence schedule which they stick to rigourously.[/QUOTE]


Looks like we have it pretty good in Townsville. Robbie Buckley at kirwan Bowl is very accomodating. On a quiet night he is only too happy to lay down a challenging pattern with his kegel....some pba patterns are really tough! Those boys certainly earn their money. I know he also laid down the rachuig pattern last year for us to practise on when we wanted....and made it free of charge!

I consider myself a fringe bowler. As for averages, I don't care whether I average 180 or 220. All that matters is my scores compared to everyone else. Making a cut with 180 is better than missing one with 220. I personally prefer a tougher pattern which puts more emphasise on accuracy rather than power ( I might be a bit bias since I don't throw a revs )

Dinesh Singham

 

[AdrianS]

OK, heres something i've brought up before. Can this 'happy medium' average wise be achieved with todays balls and oiling patterns? Back in the late 80's when 220 av top qualifier and 205 to make the cut was huge you had Urethane balls and oiling patterns which were a bit flatter ( 5 times the oil from the middle to the edge would've got your sanction pulled wouldnt it?) than what we see today. With the modern stuff its damn near all or nothing.

Now in the late 90's i bowled a few majors on conditions that were REALLY wet/dry. Those events were more moderate scoring than some of the recent shootouts. You had to bowl on fresh wet/dry and fight over/under for a few games, then they'd be very playable and high scoring for a while. Then the dry would start and the old gear and faster ball speeds would come out. Dunno if that would make for a fair event as far as different styles having a chance of scoring goes but just thought id put out there what a few of us have competed on in the recent past. It was lower scoring yes but was it fair?

Just to finish i believe i have read somewhere that John Davis from Kegel says with todays enviroment acheiving fairness is virtually impossible. Maybe for true fairness we need to blow everything up and start again? Obviously that aint reality so i guess we just have to keep battling away with what we have.

 

[rambo1]

maybe the answer lies in applying a different pattern on each lane, the kegle will do this no problem & bowlers will bowl 1 game on each pair thus everybody will be tested on the changing lane conditions & no one can clain unfair advantage. in golf it happens all the time golfers may play in perfect conditions & within an hour the wind can pick up or it maight rain but it is the challenge of the sport.
Bowling centre managers do what bowlers want if all the tournament bowlers were really fair dincum the wuld request to make the pattern in majors challenging but that won't happen in anyone's lifetime

 

[griggsy]

Here's a thought. The pba are doing pba experience leagues where you get to bowl on the 5 animal patterns, then why couldn't we do the same thing down here? Surely if it was organised properly you could get enough interest in alot centres to do our own version of the pba exp leagues, but instead of the pba patterns why not put down our major tournement oil patterns?

I really don't think it is a too far fetched idea to make into reality, and to me seems to be the best option for middle ground to help educate and give our "fringe" bowlers experience on these patterns allowing them to learn and make them more confident about wanting to enter these tournements.

 

[Hodgo]

sorry...wrong thread

 

[rychenroller]

Here's a thought. The pba are doing pba experience leagues where you get to bowl on the 5 animal patterns, then why couldn't we do the same thing down here? Surely if it was organised properly you could get enough interest in alot centres to do our own version of the pba exp leagues, but instead of the pba patterns why not put down our major tournement oil patterns?

Has there ever been any cohesiveness/consistency in lane conditions for the majors though? I can tell you for sure that the 2006/7 AO conditions were chalk and cheese. What about other majors? Who decides that "this is going to be the AO pattern" or "this is what we are laying for the SPC for the next 5 years". If I remember rightly...the K&K condition last year was an absolute flood...so who decides that?

 

[griggsy]

The point to my post wasn't what are they going to lay for the next five years because that is errelavant to what I was trying to say.My point was that wether it is going to be laid down for the next five years doesn't matter, it was the fact that people got to bowl on these condition to start introducing themselves to it so that isn't so daunting and such a shock to bowling on a harder than league pattern

 

[androooo]

Griggsy....

It would help if all centres had the equipment to put the patterns down (ie: Kegel).

Then you have the problems of, what surface you're on (wood, HPL, Anvilane), the quality of surface (wear and tear, damage), type of oil and cleaner....

If we had the machine to do it, I would have started a PBA experience league long ago..... I have all the patterns here.

 

[griggsy]

I can understand that too Androo, but even with the technology some centres have surely they would be able to put something down that is more challenging could they not? I mean it doesn't even have to be the major patterns, they could have their own league that is like a pba exp league and make their own patterns for it.
My point to it all is people say they need the custom to make it worth while putting down harder patterns.So wouldn't this be the way to introduce more people to tournement patterns to help educate them?

 

[jason_doust]

... What about if George or Brando or someone (and other great bowlers from around the country in their own regions, like Mr Doust in Canberra for example), put on clinics like George has up here, but on some of these patterns. These bowlers could then help others and show them how to play the patterns to score well and stay out of OOB areas and teach breakpoints, etc.

That's a fair cop. To be honest, I'd never thought about doing it. (I do more than bowl.) But it would be a worthwhile thing. I'll talk to some folks around Canberra after Newcastle Cup and see if there's any interest.

It's easy to say something like "short pattern = outside, long pattern = inside", but it's another thing to know how to actually do it.

The point I am making here is that as a rule of thumb, this is how most sane tournament directors would set it up.
Short oil = more friction = more room for hook required = outside shot.
Long oil = less friction = less room for hook required = inside shot.
There it is in a nutshell. Free of charge to all.

Trouble is we have short patterns with the shot inside 10 or recently a long, low volume pattern that played short where the shot is inside 20. This pretty much eliminates players with hand, as they can't consistently get skid to the right side of the headpin with any rotation. It's like playing the burn squad on tour from game one, only the backends give you wet/dry to boot. Yuk.

 

[tixmclaren]

I just thought i would jump in here and say there is a league running at the moment at Mcarthur in NSW on monday nights, the Mcarthur scratch singles.

This league is set up in a way that bowlers get to bowl on different lane conditions every 2 weeks and the centre actually tells all the bowlers in the league what the pattern is that they will be bowling on for the next 2 weeks and they also are willing to give advise on how to best attack these lane conditions.

There are some top bowlers in this league including Stephen Cowland and Ryan Alewood just to name 2 but this is not about who is in it but the fact that the lane conditions put down are sports series and pba like conditions and it shows the strengths and weeknesses in a bowler no matter how good a bowler they are and gives opportunity to improve there bowling in such competitive surrounds as there is a first prize payment of $1000.00 to the winner with money all the way down for all bowlers.

Take myself for instance, before this league began i was averageing 145 on mt.druitt bowling lanes, now after being in this league for the last 2 months my average as of last night at mt.druitt is 168. My average at mcarthur is still 143 but as already stated these lane conditions change every 2 weeks and are very challenging but this is what we are all looking for as i am in this not so much to win but to learn and it is doing wonders for my game.

Just on a side note the league will be reforming very soon as we have 11 bowlers in this league right now but there are many bowlers that are now interested in joining so we are going to go 1 round and then begin a new competition so if you are interested in this type of tournament please contact Audrey at AMF Mcarthur and she can advise you of the details if you want to challenge and learn sports series type lane conditions that can improve your game out of site.

Just my 2 cents.

Michael Mclaren
Tickets for short lol

 

[Easy Tiger]

That's a fair cop. To be honest, I'd never thought about doing it. (I do more than bowl.) But it would be a worthwhile thing. I'll talk to some folks around Canberra after Newcastle Cup and see if there's any interest.
The point I am making here is that as a rule of thumb, this is how most sane tournament directors would set it up.
Short oil = more friction = more room for hook required = outside shot.
Long oil = less friction = less room for hook required = inside shot.
There it is in a nutshell. Free of charge to all.
Trouble is we have short patterns with the shot inside 10 or recently a long, low volume pattern that played short where the shot is inside 20. This pretty much eliminates players with hand, as they can't consistently get skid to the right side of the headpin with any rotation. It's like playing the burn squad on tour from game one, only the backends give you wet/dry to boot. Yuk.

Hi Jason,

I hope you don't think I was having a dig at you or anyone else - that wasn't the case at all. What I am saying is that many bowlers (myself included) would love to have the chance to learn off some of you guys on how best to adapt to these conditions. The worst thing is turning up to majors and having absolutely no idea what to expect, and if you haven't encountered it before, it's tough to pull it together from frame 1 of game one. And the reality is that if you don't have your game face on from game 1, it's an uphill battle.

 

[jason_doust]

No sweat Tim. It was a fair comment though and I'll be thinking about what to do about it after the next couple of busy weeks.

 

[finspin]

This thread is why I love this site. I have really enjoyed reading these comments, Watching the constructive thoughts of others unfold for the overall betterment (is that a word) of the sport.

The members of TotalBowling really have the sport of tenpin in their hearts and thats why this is the best bowling site anywhere.