New bowling association???

[Graham]

I would just like to add a piece of an email sent to me by Frank the other night. He has said he has not admitted to harvesting email addresses from TotalBowling.

As for harvesting email addresses, most of the email I sent out came from emails returned to me at preferr. I just pointed out that emails can be easily obtained from your own site.

Was this preferr email address the one you used for TBA business ?

I like the way you tried to shift the blame for your dealings on me and this site when in reality (well from what you are telling me) it had nothing to do with it. Were you just trying to cover up what you had really done ? Or did you really use TotalBowling ? Im sorry, but the story keeps changing.

No matter what way you look at it, either stealing them from this site or from TBA, you have done wrong. Stealing them from me I can forgive and forget, stealing them from TBA is, in my belief, a breach of privacy laws.

For those interested, I have modified the forum and made it that the only place that a persons email address appears now is on their posts. You can also change this in your profile, by not allowing everyone to see your email address.

Frank : Your access has been reinstated, only because I believe you should have the right to reply. And not for any other reason.

 

[Graham]

I have been led to believe that Frank believes that the TBA Egroups is owned and operated by him.

Now I have been asked what is the big deal with all this ?

Im not concerned too much about what involvement who had with who .. but where the addresses have come from.

Im sure that when members joined up TBA (this includes TBA E-Newsgroups) they would assume that their information would not be passed onto other parties to be used.

If the members (including mine) are being used by Frank for his own personal gain - who else is my information (not just email but ALL my personal information) being sold/given to ? And if TBA havent given or sold our information to anyone (which i dont think they have done), then we have a problem.

 

[milkman]

Can someone from TBA make an official statement somewhere? Or are they washing their hands clean of this. There is too much conspiracy over this for it to be ignored.

Who is involved in the creation and daily operations of Syndicate 52? To me, if you are involved in one, you should not be involved in the other. This means to me, that if Frank Kosztan is involved in the daily operations of Syndicate 52, you should have NO further dealings with the TBA, including awards and whatever TBA forum you are creating.

If Syndicate 52 is a seperate entity to TBA, I can not understand how anyone directly involved with both companies does not have a conflict of interest. This goes for all people that has been listed in the involvement so far: June, Frank and Barry. I do believe that June has already stopped being involved, and that the ASIC information has not been changed. Barry is still employed to do photos at tournaments, and Frank has conflicting stories as to whether he is involved or not involved with TBA.

I know for a fact that several thousand memberships were sold at TBA Nationals this year. I just wonder who from Syndicate 52 actually sold these memberships? I also know that the Syndicate 52 has been proposed to several state TBA organisations around Australia, and that Victoria will be discussing the venture at their meeting tomorrow.

Before any association is conjured into this membership thing, why doesnt someone clear up these issues, its not a hard thing to do. The way I see it at the moment, you pay $52 a year, to go into the draw for prizes. I dont see that as a "membership", I see that as a lottery/raffle. Membership to me involves benefits, entitlements, being part of an organisation, not just being in the chance of winning prizes.

 

[June Voukolos]

I have sat back for the last 2 days and watched as the well informed gurus of this sport slander individuals and make misinformed statements to the nation via this website. Obviously some of you cannot read and also do not take an active hands on role in your State Associations otherwise you would have the correct answers to the questions you seem to ask and answer yourselves.

My phone has not rung once with genuine queries to these subjects but all the answers are available.

First of all Syndicate 52 is a club membership/association, an incorporated body whose members can participate in daily "club" draws for cash and prizes. The original concept was mooted some 3 years ago by Barry Davies our Nationals photographer who has watched the demise of the ATBC the hardships of those trying to drive TBA and the difficulty bowlers were having financially in getting to the Nationals. Barry had talked with Andrew, Frank, John Dobson, Lynne Clay, John Coxon and myself many times and needed help to get this project underway. Barry and Frank then organised a meeting of all interested persons and there are others from other sports, to be held in Brisbane at the begining of September 2002. He asked Frank and I to register the name Syndicate 52 in Brisbane where the incorporation would be sought. We did that.

The meeting was held and the concept formed that Associations could make a profit from selling the memberships and that at the end of the Syndicate 52 year the profits would come to TBA to be spent on 3 things and 3 things only - 1) The money should be distributed between states and territories for airfares for their Junior, Youth, Adult and Seniors Teams to attend Nationals, 2) A portion should be given to State and Territory Associations for Admin costs as they have no way of collecting membership and 3) A scholarship system set up for Junior and Youth Bowlers. I was to report to my Board. I did so during a Board meeting at the end of September. Peter Stening thought I should not be involved and I agreed to withdraw from the committee at my Board's request. I have done so and a replacement has been found. I have not been involved in any meetings or decision making processes with Syndicate 52 since that time. As you are all so informed on governance matters you will know that once incorporation is finalised then the name belongs to the association and my name will not appear on any document. This is not a lottery concept and needs no permit in any state to operate. Just read the website.

The Board of Tenpin Bowling Australia decided not to endorse this in writing as there cannot be a financial commitment from TBA. Barry Davies has bankrolled the venture personally. Andrew's suggestion to Barry and Frank was that an endorsement by the current TBA Board may chase people away from the concept. From the tone of these posts he was probably correct. Many other sports wanted Barry to use this concept for them alone but Barry has stood fast in his attempt to help our sport even though the Committee of Syndicate 52 represent several sports.

Unfortunately it appears that in our efforts to make life easier for State Associations and representative bowlers we have to endure personal insults from people who have a personal complaint or issue of their own against TBA.

As far as National Awards is situated and this has been well documented and explained at every TBA AGM. I do not own National Awards. I have financed National Awards so it could be a stand alone department of TBA to protect the intellectual asset of the NSO and the awards program for the bowlers. TBA could not afford to do this. I made a commitment to the Board that I would finance National Awards until it was a stand alone venture and then TBA would take over and refund me the amount of finance I had committed. I believe this will be possible in 2004. Much like our original creditors list of which you may remember I was mentioned there along with all other creditors of TBA.

Some of the Board of TBA work long hours 7 days a week on a volunteer basis to make things happen for this organisation and the bowlers. If any of you want to run for our positions you can do so and if you were active in your State Associations you would already know the answers to your own questions and we would have seen you at our AGM. This has not happened.

Is it any wonder we cannot keep good volunteers or people who are passionate enough about the sport to want to see it move forward in all areas. I look forward to receiving all of your nominations in April 2003 when they are called for.

June Voukolos
Chairperson

 

[strop]

good to see this sport is still heading in the right direction...........DOWN!

 

[steve_jones]

It is simply impossible to resist any longer .........

"live by the sword - die by the sword"!

Steve Jones

 

[zsarchie1]

my appologies

ím eating crow, after June ex[lanation, ill accept the proposal as being legal.
wish that explanation have been put in earlier, it would have cleared a lot of misunderstanding.
im therefore sending a cheque 4 $52.00 to the sindicate 52 and hope to win.

 

[GeorgeF]

Thanks for clearing everything up June

 

[Shaun24]

Question is now, will Syndicate 52 have trouble from the other sports saying that there sport is more important and needs more funding or are the profits simply split straight down the middle?

 

[jimcross]

Good one,people. Shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Graham]

How can anyone say that has cleared everything up? Maybe about TBA's involvement, however I know there are lots more unanswered questions regarding this organisation.

I am more or less resigned to the fact that I will not get an answer regarding the use of TBA EGroups emails. The person in question has done nothing wrong in their eyes and never will.

I can't wait to see how this organisation is run ...

To those that are forking out cash to be a part of this, I have a bridge I want to sell you. Please call me ASAP.

 

[Andrew S.]

Really June !
I think your post is a total red herring designed to gain a sympathy vote for Frank. Thus smoothing his way onto the National Board of Directors.
And when was the last time you actually answered your telephone message bank ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[RobbieB]

I'm with Graham on this. June states, in part "This is not a lottery concept and needs no permit in any state to operate. Just read the website."

From the Queensland Government 'Art Unions and Public Amusements Act 1992", the term 'art union' is defined thusly: (Pages 16-17)

"PART 2 BASIC CONCEPTS

Division 1 What is an art union?

Subdivision A General

Meaning of art union
5.(1) An art union is a game, scheme or arrangement offering prizes
(whether or not tickets are sold or distributed) in which the winners are
determined
(a) wholly or partly by chance; or
(b) by a competition or other activity having an outcome depending
on fate, for example, a guessing competition.
(2) Art unions include
(a) bingo; and
(b) calcutta sweeps; and
(c) lotteries; and
(d) lucky envelopes; and
(e) raffles; and
(f) trade promotion art unions; and
(g) sweeps that are not calcutta sweeps; and
(h) similar games, schemes or arrangements."

The Syndicate 52 arrangement appears (to me) to be an art union under the terms of the Act in Queensland at least. While the $200 draws probably fall under the class of exempt art unions, the car draws won't. If so they require a permit. But, I am not a solicitor, so that is just an opinion.

As I said earlier, I have asked the relevant authority for advice. I'll post the results here when I get them.

 

[RobbieB]

Just a clarification - while I'm not interested in buying a membership in what is basically a raffle club, I'm not against the concept at all. And, providing that the proper permits and such are obtained, this could be a good thing for bowling. Probably a better return on 'investment' than scratchies or Lotto.

Graham, FWIW I didn't get an email from Frank, while suggests that the TotalBowling list wasn't used.

 

[AdrianS]

Evening all. What have i missed?
:?: :mrgreen: :?:

 

[bm2]

Like everyone else we have been following this topic over the last few days, and whilst we don't want to get involved with the rights or the wrongs with syndicate 52, and the email issues surrounding it all, there is something which we are curious about :? ........
What has Frank Kosztan ever done (before Syndicate 52) to warrant the negativity of his involvement???? Why should this venture automatically be doomed to failure simply because he is involved? :cry:

Broni & Jagga :?

 

[Shaun24]

if this isn't a hot topic i don't know what is :lol:

4 pages of replies!!!!

 

[Tenpin Terror]

Broni & Jagga,

I'm only new to this forum but judging by what has been written, Frank has upset a lot of people in the past. If I remember, Frank was involved in TBAQ and things were not always done properly, now that he is out of TBAQ things seem to be going along a lot more smoothly. Talk to some of the people that you bowl with and you might be able to find out a few things that has upset quite a few of these people.

 

[OnE TiMe MeMBeR]

ReWiNd AnD ThInK AbOuT It :shock:

Searously have i eva heard so much shit in my life
here it is plain and simple
it seems like a good idea and will probably help alot of people
so if you dont like it then leave it alone dont wreak it for every one else
if you like it then go ahead and put in for a ticket
as for that w cheaster leave june and frank and anyone else alone cuz at least they were trying all i can see you and ya lads doing is bitching and stirring shit that you were obiously misinformed about or have already made up your mind and are useing this shit to attack people that you dont like
i mean good lot ur doing for the sport ayy!!! and i dought that in a million years you could do half the job or be half as devoted to tha sport then what june has been fair enought it looks abit sketchie but hey give it a chance and you might find that its not so bad and gives you the chance to win some cool prizes and support tha sport !!!

- shuttupppa your face

 

[Shaun24]

One time member, if your going to have a go at people, at least put your name on the post so we know who u r.