Low scores and tough pattern at Junior Nationals..... thoughts?
- Thread starter GeorgeF
- Start date
davo90
Member
I'm with you George, not the best choice for this kind of event. Don't we want young people to develop confidence in their game and the sport.
Think there maybe some juniors there thinking wtf have I got myself into.
Save the hard patterns for the training camps in a smaller controlled environments where they can be easy mentored and coached through without the emotion and pressure of a national event.
Think there maybe some juniors there thinking wtf have I got myself into.
Save the hard patterns for the training camps in a smaller controlled environments where they can be easy mentored and coached through without the emotion and pressure of a national event.
My advice to the kids would be to look around. If they are matching the other scores, well then, the score don't matter.
Get them to compare against the other scores, if they are shooting 180 average and that is the top average. Well done, you are the king of the pack regardless of it being 180 or 220 average, its the top average, be proud and enjoy yourself.....just my two cents worth of advice.
Get them to compare against the other scores, if they are shooting 180 average and that is the top average. Well done, you are the king of the pack regardless of it being 180 or 220 average, its the top average, be proud and enjoy yourself.....just my two cents worth of advice.
Yes It is a little difficult but it is a Nationals competition , not backyard cricket
I saw a number of the kids bowl pretty well on it
I did also see more than 1 team bowling i team game and miss 15 x single pins and
that has nothing to do with a different pattern.
In the end it is a competition and someone will win it , It just wont be at a hugely overinflated average
which is way above their true ability
I saw a number of the kids bowl pretty well on it
I did also see more than 1 team bowling i team game and miss 15 x single pins and
that has nothing to do with a different pattern.
In the end it is a competition and someone will win it , It just wont be at a hugely overinflated average
which is way above their true ability
It would be so good to go back to the old days when we did not care about the oil pattern just bowled ...... to many people, so much knowledge on what other bowlers should bowl on.When Dave Davis came to bowl Melbourne Cup did we worry about the pattern ...NO just wanted to see him bowl.
Let the kids have fun and if they improve move them on to these Sports Pattern.
Daggie.
Let the kids have fun and if they improve move them on to these Sports Pattern.
Daggie.
Where is the fun bowling on a ditch... I think nationals should be harder but not 3:1. I've said this elsewhere but I think for juniors a 5 or 6:1 pattern is hard enough for them... 4-5:1 for youth and lower ratios for open tourneys. Build the juniors up gradually and educate them. At least there is more chance of keeping them interested...
Yes the pattern was a challenge.....that is for certain but compared to last years nationals the all star averages are higher than last year.....
What a lot of the kids have found out is that they need to work on there sparing game.......on this pattern it was a certainly a case of he who spares will win....
Leanne
What a lot of the kids have found out is that they need to work on there sparing game.......on this pattern it was a certainly a case of he who spares will win....
Leanne
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
My take on this (Androoooo will appreciate the comparison) would be to compare this condition to having junior golfers play of the back tees at somewhere like Royal Melbourne golf club. Only the most skilled players are going to threaten par on that layout, especially amongst juniors. Most juniors would play at easier, shorter courses thus giving them falsely lower handicaps so when they go somewhere like Royal Melbourne they struggle, especially on the super slick greens.
This type of pattern is a similar analogy. The juniors are accustomed to playing on house ditches where they can strike at will and sparing is not as much of an issue. Get them on this type of pattern and all of a sudden the juniors who lack accuracy and decent rotation (the majority in this case) struggle to strike and as a result, struggle to spare as well.
I would not have made the pattern quite as difficult as the one they had to play on. Something like a 5:1 ratio with reasonable volume, say 22mL, would be probably more appropriate for the standard of bowlers playing Shield.
This type of pattern is a similar analogy. The juniors are accustomed to playing on house ditches where they can strike at will and sparing is not as much of an issue. Get them on this type of pattern and all of a sudden the juniors who lack accuracy and decent rotation (the majority in this case) struggle to strike and as a result, struggle to spare as well.
I would not have made the pattern quite as difficult as the one they had to play on. Something like a 5:1 ratio with reasonable volume, say 22mL, would be probably more appropriate for the standard of bowlers playing Shield.
Michael Little
Active Member
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/junior-youth-forum/41316-tenpin-city-lane-type.html
Couldn't be bothered typing out anything again, here are my thoughts from another thread on this.
To add to this, have seen a lot of comments, not so much here, but in FB land, the juniors need to toughen up, in a sense this would be right, except this pattern is one of the toughest WTBA patterns to play on, compared to the majority of the rest where a shot opens up eventually. Can't see too many high scores like AO when we hit this pattern for Melbourne Cup in the next couple of months.
And Geoff and Brenton are right, deadset, the simplest thing to do in this game to be consistant is to learn how to bloody spare, no wonder our coaches tear their hair out at schools and junior/youth team trips when this is the biggest downfall to achieving decent scores.
Couldn't be bothered typing out anything again, here are my thoughts from another thread on this.
To add to this, have seen a lot of comments, not so much here, but in FB land, the juniors need to toughen up, in a sense this would be right, except this pattern is one of the toughest WTBA patterns to play on, compared to the majority of the rest where a shot opens up eventually. Can't see too many high scores like AO when we hit this pattern for Melbourne Cup in the next couple of months.
And Geoff and Brenton are right, deadset, the simplest thing to do in this game to be consistant is to learn how to bloody spare, no wonder our coaches tear their hair out at schools and junior/youth team trips when this is the biggest downfall to achieving decent scores.
ozmaen
I am a DV8
Michael,
I couldn't agree more. My son bowled in "C" grade and he was found out big time on the sparing. I reckon he missed maybe 70% of his spare shots he would normally have hit at Warners Bay. It was also a combination of nerves and the occasion that got to him, but non the less, I think he learned a lesson from his first visit to the nationals. He bowled a bit under his current average, so those spares could have turned average scores into decent ones for him.
I think we will both be better prepared for next year and I think that he is confortable in the fact that not many others in his grade bowled much better, so in the end it was a fair result.
I couldn't agree more. My son bowled in "C" grade and he was found out big time on the sparing. I reckon he missed maybe 70% of his spare shots he would normally have hit at Warners Bay. It was also a combination of nerves and the occasion that got to him, but non the less, I think he learned a lesson from his first visit to the nationals. He bowled a bit under his current average, so those spares could have turned average scores into decent ones for him.
I think we will both be better prepared for next year and I think that he is confortable in the fact that not many others in his grade bowled much better, so in the end it was a fair result.
Michael Little
Active Member
John is also right in that the scores need to be compared to each other and how similarly skilled players are scoring. The pattern is a tough one no doubt about it and nobody spares perfectly all the time, just look at the pros on some of the recent TV shows, but you can guarantee that they aren't missing 3-4 a game.
Gee, ask the people that bowled AO or Mentone Cup if they didnt enjoy themselves. Never said it should be a ditch. Yes, they should bit tougher than your regular tournament, but as Michael said the pattern is one of the toughest WTBA patterns going around. Bit ridiculous for a junior tournament, even the nationals.
We should be trying to keep kids interested in the sport not sending them home shattered because they averaged 20-30 pins under there average. (albeit inflated from bowling on ditched house patterns). They should be training on these harder patterns at home prior to going away so they are a little prepared instead of turning up and going WTF.
These are the bowlers of the future. How many bowlers once they have come out of juniors have just given the game away in the last 10-15 years. I know heaps. Whens the last time we had to turn away bowlers from a tournament because it was full.
excluding Seniors tournaments of course
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Why put an easy pattern down if when these kids get to youth or adult age and represent their country, they will be bowling on tough sport patterns?
I think its good that a tough pattern was put down because it shows each bowler where they need to improve on their game. I have also said this to somebody on facebook, we are talking about juniors here whose skill level and knowledge of the sport isnt as good as an Adult bowler and they are also still developing their bodies etc. Give these kids a few years and put them on the same pattern and I am sure their scores would have improved out of sight!
At least now when they get to a higher level they will know how to play on a tough pattern and not just a easy house shot where you can miss your target by heaps and still hit pocket
I think its good that a tough pattern was put down because it shows each bowler where they need to improve on their game. I have also said this to somebody on facebook, we are talking about juniors here whose skill level and knowledge of the sport isnt as good as an Adult bowler and they are also still developing their bodies etc. Give these kids a few years and put them on the same pattern and I am sure their scores would have improved out of sight!
At least now when they get to a higher level they will know how to play on a tough pattern and not just a easy house shot where you can miss your target by heaps and still hit pocket
sturner
Terrified
If juniors quit because it was all too hard they were never going to stick with it. Problem with a lot of state bowlers is they are there because mummy and daddy can afford it not always because they're great or love the sport.
Problem also is kids are now taught they're all special and equal there is no competition to be the best of the best like there was in the nineties.
I reckon Michael said it best toughen up and get the damn spares.
Problem also is kids are now taught they're all special and equal there is no competition to be the best of the best like there was in the nineties.
I reckon Michael said it best toughen up and get the damn spares.
My two cents worth...
I understand it is the Nationals and should be competitive HOWEVER, these are kids and very few in the "elite" level....it is time people started to realize that Ten Pin Bowling needs to cater for all type of bowlers and not just the hand full that wish to represent their country or be at the super competitive level. Parents would have forked out significant $$ for their little Johnny to head down to the Nationals....Lets say this is Little Johnnys first Nationals....averages 150-170 (not in open or President Shield).....goes way and bowls terrible it is not going to be a pleasant experience. I agree it needs to be a little tougher but not extreme in the general "championship" portion of the tournament.
As for the arguments that if the kids want to compete in Youth and Adults and represent their country it is good for them....this is not ALL the bowlers attending and I will say a small percentage. The kids that are serious about competition would be in the Open division and most likely bowling President Shield...therefore put the pattern down for President Shield and test the "elite" out then when it is only them competing on it.....also I dont have a problem if the Masters lays a tighter pattern.
I just dont see the benefit in breaking Little Johnnys heart when he is just getting into bowling.
I understand it is the Nationals and should be competitive HOWEVER, these are kids and very few in the "elite" level....it is time people started to realize that Ten Pin Bowling needs to cater for all type of bowlers and not just the hand full that wish to represent their country or be at the super competitive level. Parents would have forked out significant $$ for their little Johnny to head down to the Nationals....Lets say this is Little Johnnys first Nationals....averages 150-170 (not in open or President Shield).....goes way and bowls terrible it is not going to be a pleasant experience. I agree it needs to be a little tougher but not extreme in the general "championship" portion of the tournament.
As for the arguments that if the kids want to compete in Youth and Adults and represent their country it is good for them....this is not ALL the bowlers attending and I will say a small percentage. The kids that are serious about competition would be in the Open division and most likely bowling President Shield...therefore put the pattern down for President Shield and test the "elite" out then when it is only them competing on it.....also I dont have a problem if the Masters lays a tighter pattern.
I just dont see the benefit in breaking Little Johnnys heart when he is just getting into bowling.
What really needs to happen is the House Shot, as we know it, should be outlawed..............
All patterns then should come from a standard list of x Number set down and then
everyone would learn to be more accurate and improve their skills.
Then we would see the return of the importance of Sparing, because you would
not unrealistically strike all the time
It really would not take that long, with some practice and a bit of help.
Sadly this will never happen because Centres wont do it because Bowlers Egos will
be hurt too much and they fear walkouts.........
Be honest now, this is really the truth of it....
All patterns then should come from a standard list of x Number set down and then
everyone would learn to be more accurate and improve their skills.
Then we would see the return of the importance of Sparing, because you would
not unrealistically strike all the time
It really would not take that long, with some practice and a bit of help.
Sadly this will never happen because Centres wont do it because Bowlers Egos will
be hurt too much and they fear walkouts.........
Be honest now, this is really the truth of it....
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Totally agree Jarrod! Should be two patterns, one for nationals and then one for president shield.
I will admit I was only talking about the elite bowlers and didn't really think about the other little tackers. My apologies.
I guess we will see how the adults go in a couple of months time at Melbourne Cup on the same pattern.
Thank you for actually reading my post... Not picking on you Michael but there are a few posts that could have been quoted... You won the lottery...
As its already been mentioned, the nationals is catering for all grades down to E. But I agree that the ditches centres lay should be banned...
