Low scores and tough pattern at Junior Nationals..... thoughts?

[Michael Little]

A few people have bits and pieces of good reasoning in these posts but some are off base.

Pattern, ordinary for the whole crew of juniors, this has been agreed, my suggestion of dual patterns, some have agreed, this could be a logistical nightmare, but it has some merit. At least the scores are recognised for what they will be.

Nobody certainly suggests that the house shot should be laid out and some posters are talking ratios, yes they make a difference, but there are plenty of 2:1 or 3:1 patterns that play quite easy. Where the technical committee need to be more proactive is aligning patterns with house topography and the rest. Jez is right, no bowling centre owner is going to make the average lane condition hard, but if they have enough interest and the right machinery, they can certainly cater for sports pattern leagues etc. Remember everything that most of us are craving for here is what a small percentage of actual bowlers want. The avg house bowler doesn't give two hoots about a sports pattern, much like the actual percentage of tournament bowlers are quite small compared to the bowling population, much like the percentage of 'elite' juniors capable of playing on a tough pattern, small.

Some people have noted that if bowlers practice various lines, they should be capable of bowling anywhere. Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen. So many intricate differences in ball rolls, release, layouts and surfaces can make such a big difference, that if these are aligned, it wouldn't matter how accurate someone is playing whatever part of the lane they need too.

And I don't think anyone is disagreeing either how valuable the sparing is. 1135 single pin misses, are you bloody kidding me? That is a minimum of 11350 in pinfall gone missing somewhere, minimum. Not to mention how many possible strings of strikes and momentum these misses have ruined.

Sucks to say it, but if we are to focus on the elite level and want to focus on national team events, major tournaments in Australia and state team reps, it is quite obvious that there is quite a lot lacking in skill and knowledge at present and that we shouldn't expect too much from these teams when travelling, because they haven't obtained the necessary skill level to compete just yet.

This being the case, why not start to install a program now with perhaps a 5 year plan to develop our juniors and youth bowlers, and eventually blend them into the adult arena. No point worrying about results right now.

Unfortunately, it will be hard to do, lack of funding is a massive problem if we want to focus on the 'elite' level. But a couple of things to consider in an ideal world:

- How many current juniors and youth have coaches, and how many have access to training programs etc etc. What skill level are these coaches and how effective are they? Is there regular accreditation and continual follow up with directives from above as to how to develop the juniors and their games to attain a level to compete OS? Pathways again, but from National coach all the way down, there should be a pathway, feedback and continual advice to the local area coaches who coach our elite juniors and monitoring of these coaches, because a fair few possibly only have their certificates for the paper value

- Regularly have the information at hand to teach and educate, regarding some of the finer aspects of the game to help these kids to take themselves to the next level, see point above. If we want to develop the kids skills levels, no point just dropping the information on them, explain the whys and hows!

There is more, but I need to think about it properly.

 

[Michael Little]

Go to the TBA website and look at the Stats sheet for Shield
1135 x 9 misses
I will sy it again , That statistic has nothing to do with the pattern
Learn to spare, learn the basics of the game
It is a skill based game
House Shots do not promote the Skill required to play the game

It isn't so much that house shots don't promote skill, it is that house shots, higher scoring and the ability to shoot a lot of strikes paper of the cracks of missing spares.

It is reasonable that to acquire a skill and for it to become learnt behaviour, muscle memory etc, over 10000hrs of practice must be completed, I bet not many juniors or adults for that matter will have put in that much time to develop their skill levels.

 

[burdekinsnow]

Michael I tend to agree that bulk practise is necessary to acquire the skills for spare shooting or the other facets of our game. I know that Jarrod does at least 25% of weekly practise is devoted to just that. Unfortuanately as a parent of a junior it comes down to one thing and I hate to say it but MONEY, some of the cost associated with the sport we all love restrict the ability of our juniors to gain the skills.

 

[Casual Observer]

Is this a case of the pattern being too hard or is it just a case of it not being as easy as they are used to?

 

[bluey]

Is this a case of the pattern being too hard or is it just a case of it not being as easy as they are used to?

A good point indeed, there's probably plenty of bowlers that would not have come across a pattern that requires accuracy and good shot making on a regular basis so although they have the physical ability, the repetition and discipline to play the tighter patterns is lacking. Then we go back to Mick's earlier post that pathways need to be created for all bowlers.

 

[Aussie]

I believe NSW could not field a full team and had to draft players, you people are worried about hard conditions.
Am I missing something here.????

 

[mickyd213]

I believe NSW could not field a full team and had to draft players, you people are worried about hard conditions.
Am I missing something here.????

What's your point? NSW wasn't the only state that drafted bowlers.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

What's your point? NSW wasn't the only state that drafted bowlers.

There's 7.5 million people in NSW, Southern NSW includes Sydney. What aussie is saying is thaty there is a greater issue than lane conditions at the Junior Nationals. Its the issue of the most populous city, hosting the junior nationals and the home state being unable to field a full team without having to draft from smaller states. Obviously there is a major problem there and a more pressing problem than the oiling pattern.

So, what happened there? What are we missing?

 

[Michael Little]

Is this a case of the pattern being too hard or is it just a case of it not being as easy as they are used to?

Normally I would agree, but this particular pattern is a touch harder because it is a little flatter, and how it is broken down holds much higher importance than some of theasier patterns. Also obviously not used to their usual house shot which exaggerates their shortcomings even further.

 

[Michael Little]

There's 7.5 million people in NSW, Southern NSW includes Sydney. What aussie is saying is thaty there is a greater issue than lane conditions at the Junior Nationals. Its the issue of the most populous city, hosting the junior nationals and the home state being unable to field a full team without having to draft from smaller states. Obviously there is a major problem there and a more pressing problem than the oiling pattern.

So, what happened there? What are we missing?

Wasn't aware of this, that is most certainly a big problem, I think there are a lot who didn't even wish to bother, and I would hazard to guess there are a few reasons why, including costs, the usual *****y groups that control things, kids might not be interested in shield anymore, much like Rachuig to a degree.

Maybe someone within the state squad can shed some light, can understand some other states possibly requiring bowlers, but in a junior premier event, each state should really have no problem fielding a team. Where have the days gone from yesteryear, I can still remember having to duke it out with 120 other bowlers for state team trials way back when.

 

[David 1]

Bring back the good old days when the likes of Tony Kelly (Pablo), Macca (Tony Mcfarlane), Trish Weir, Danny Hackles, Wayne Cardwell i think his name was and even a little fellow called Tiger ( Carl Bottomley) all bowled on wooden lanes with one ball or maybe the most two . When all the parents would go and shaparone every year to every state. No shortage of participants back then, it was for the love of the sport, and also the great times we all had togeather were ever we travelled. Mmmm be interesting to see the averages back then.

 

[Graeme Rose]

A question for those of you who were at the event. How soon after oiling were the lanes used? If they were bowled on almost straight away then at least 8 lanes of Juniors were bowling on a pattern that was seriously compromised.

Running dual patterns only becomes a problem if you want to run two patterns in the same squad. Then you need two lane machines. Running a different pattern each day or even each squad just requires extra time between squads to switch patterns.

Matching patterns to topography.... impossible. Every lane is different. Measuring the topography accurately in the first place requires a Kegel lane mapper (worth $50k) and you can't buy one, you can only borrow it. For this year's tournaments the TBA technical committee has asked centres to test patterns for each event to try to get a better match between pattern & surface. How much effort is put into this testing is beyond our control. A lot more work is needed, but we have made a start.

Before the QLD Open I ran a course to teach people how to use a 'Tape Reader'. The more people that can learn how to use this equipment, the more data we can collect. Then we can build a picture of how patterns play and how they break down. We can also see the effects of lane machine adjustments and maintenance, good & bad. A set of lane tapes will soon tell you that a pattern is 'as advertised'. If enough of you are interested, call or email the TBA and if we can get 6 or more people in one location then I can teach you how to use the machine and the software. All the people who attended the course in QLD got a lot out of it, as we had time to discuss oil patterns & topography as well.

 

[mickyd213]

I may be totally of the mark here but with the event being held when it was meant that our kids missed the first week back at school. Next year it's 2 weeks they will be missing. I'm not sure if other states are affected (obviously N.S.W isn't) but this might be a consideration...

 

[ozmaen]

Wasn't aware of this, that is most certainly a big problem, I think there are a lot who didn't even wish to bother, and I would hazard to guess there are a few reasons why, including costs, the usual *****y groups that control things, kids might not be interested in shield anymore, much like Rachuig to a degree.

Maybe someone within the state squad can shed some light, can understand some other states possibly requiring bowlers, but in a junior premier event, each state should really have no problem fielding a team. Where have the days gone from yesteryear, I can still remember having to duke it out with 120 other bowlers for state team trials way back when.[/QUOTE


There is without doubt some issues here, as there is in other States
There are a number of reasons we have this problem
Sadly I can't fix them all

People relatively new to the sport have no idea how selections are done, what's involved etc so potentially you have a problem as some have mentioned about cost etc, but also those who would like to participate have no idea how it all works.

 

[Geoff300]

Wasn't aware of this, that is most certainly a big problem, I think there are a lot who didn't even wish to bother, and I would hazard to guess there are a few reasons why, including costs, the usual *****y groups that control things, kids might not be interested in shield anymore, much like Rachuig to a degree.

Maybe someone within the state squad can shed some light, can understand some other states possibly requiring bowlers, but in a junior premier event, each state should really have no problem fielding a team. Where have the days gone from yesteryear, I can still remember having to duke it out with 120 other bowlers for state team trials way back when.[/QUOTE


There is without doubt some issues here, as there is in other States
There are a number of reasons we have this problem
Sadly I can't fix them all

 

[lgt]

Pattern
The Junior nationals is a graded event (E to Open) and some bowlers and parents have left with a dissapointment. There was a tougher pattern laid in 2005 at Tuggeranong and in 2006 the pattern was adjusted to be easier (same centre) but the numbers were down on the previous year. Hopefully most enjoyed the atmosphere at Lidcombe and this is enough to encourage bowlers to continue at their home centre and return to national competition.

Many have talked about a tougher pattern for shield but this would interupt the tournament management schedule........

NSW Teams
There are two zones in NSW, Southern and Northern, and there are different problems for each zone regards number of juniors participating.

I can speak for Southern to answer questions of participation:
list the number of junior leagues in our centres
where are the 'development' programs for juniors and emerging youth as well as the emerging coaches/officials - as Michael noted State has a program for elite and emerging elite
how do we compete with the other main sports/activities - especially in Sydney where everything is so available (compared to many country and non metro areas)
how do we encourage ethnic groups to participate as Sydney takes in over 70% of all new migrants
I see the direct correlation between the folding up of the Sydney Junior Intercentre program and our current participation levels in Sydney

We need a five year plan and work more closely with our centres, bring back a state junior development program with clear pathway to SBT and state teams participation.....develop the sport again with juniors.

Leanne

 

[gwhiting]

At the end of the day the question should be was the pattern fair to all players.

I notice that if the scoring in a tournament is low comments are made that the pattern was too hard. If the scoring is high then the pattern is to easy.

So what score is the benchmark for the pattern to be right?

What is happening now is a lot of bowlers expect that they will get a strike more times than not. When they don't it's almost like a failure that they have to bowl for a spare.

The more concerning issue appears to be the numbers. As mentioned earlier this has to do with the costs. It's a real burden on a family to go away to the Nationals for the week. Most people need to fly so they need to hire a car to get around and then there is accommodation, food etc. Having the event in NSW helps with the costs for some states as they can drive there.

 

[Casual Observer]

Low numbers is partly created by the lack of advertising. It seems that totalbowling has become the only place where anything is advertised.

TB is a dinosaur and is rapidly becoming obsolete. The centres need to get the message out there like they used to as TB will just not do the job.

 

[Geoff300]

Low numbers is partly created by the lack of advertising. It seems that totalbowling has become the only place where anything is advertised.

TB is a dinosaur and is rapidly becoming obsolete. The centres need to get the message out there like they used to as TB will just not do the job.

Agreed Total Bowling is a good forum for advertising
ALL events are well listed on both State and National Websites
I am not sure how else we can do it better
Some Centres don't and won't allow stuff on their control counters
and refuse to advertise events because it is not in their Centres

Not easy but we have to find ways to get the message out better

 

[granto]

All very valid points on here. From what I witnessed being one of the coaches of a girls team was too many basic spares left after the second shot! Yes, there was a lot of juniors very tentative in their first shot (pattern on the brain) and left a lot of basic spares and a lot of splits left also. I watch a lot of juniors practice and all they do is bring up a screen and try and shoot big numbers during a 4,5,6 or even 10 game sessions. Yes I realise coaches worth their weight can't be everywhere at once but if anyone sees a junior pick up a ball and just throw a score, pull them up and say strikes are good but spares are GOLD.
It would be great to walk into a bowl and see juniors working on their spare game. I spoke with Lexi Nicoll last year and asked her what she values most and the answer was get your boys to shoot spares not just games!