Do you think the junior nationals pattern was too easy?

[b0xz0r]

"The Pattern!" on paper
was ditched.
yet the amount of factors that come into what actually affects a pattern is more than would be worth listing.

the toughest part of super strike was by far the centres characteristics.
i know that my main problem during nationals and shield was mainly the carry.
straight players did do so much better because of the type of roll they got on the ball
allowing them to carry a lot easier at that perticular center.
power players who didnt do as may have been because they put a completely different roll on the ball. and most of our junior/youth bowlers that ive seen are made up of A lot of tweeners and power players.

this pattern came across to me as one that surely made you use your head.
like old school bowling use to be.
and what this thread is trying to bring back.

p.s. this is purely an innocent post about the topic.

 

[mannah]

Our centres juniors came home enthused, happy and looking forward to training and going again next year. Isn't this what our sport wants?? Some disappointed but mostly happy and if the kids are happy then the parents are happy to come up with the money to pay. The kids ages ranged from 6 upwards with a huge variety of experience and averages. For some it was their first time away from home bowling at a different centre, at different times, eating different meals, sharing a room with different people. Enough for them to adapt to without having to worry about "very tough" conditions.

Keep it honest for the all events and graded masters etc but maybe make a tougher shot for shield .. after all the Shield bowlers are the elite future bowlers and should be able to adapt to the tougher patters.

 

[Shoey]

We took a group of 8 kids from ACT to Warners Bay for the first week of the Nationals. These kids are a part of our Tuesday night training group and all bowl at least 1 league. There ages were from 8 – 14 and averages ranged from 75 to 165. some had been to the nationals before whilst others were making their first trip.

We train these and all the kids in our training group in a manner which requires them to utilise what they are learning when they play elsewhere to best suit them. We do not show them oil patterns, preferring them to use the warm up time to each of their squads to determine how they should play the lane, which ball to use based purely on the lane condition at that time and utilising what they are being taught.

Oil patterns are not the only factor which affects their performance. As mentioned before you have things like “surface, pindecks, pins, kickbacks, temperature, humidity” all playing a part in the shot the kids make and its their adaptation to this that will determine how well they score, this is what we are teaching them. The pattern presented certainly would have played much more differently if the event was in Townsville simply because of the change in climate. We teach the kids to think this way as a means of best helping them.

Our kids had what we feel was a fantastic week with 6 of the 8 performing over entering average and the other 2 only just under and they both kept trying. This is one of the barometers we look at to gauge how they have gone, we also look at how each are applying what they are learning to suit the conditions presented, which all bowlers on the day have to play on and adapt to, and all our kids did this well. From our perspective as their coaches and a parent they performed very well. As coaches we walked the lanes assisting them as they went and had nightly debriefs with them to discuss the days play as a group and talk about changes for the next days play. Our highest average bowler entering the tournament was 8 pins over his entering average, he bowled nothing exceptional in terms of huge scores but his consistency of scores and application of what he is being taught was top notch, we could not ask more than this given the way we are coaching them all.

On top of all of this the kids as a whole had a great time, renewing existing friendships and making new ones. They enjoyed there bowling and the week away (especially since is was an extra week out of school for them), all and even more of our group, are lining up to go to Werribee next year. some of our kids even came away that happy with how they went and enjoyed the whole experience that much they are setting themselves the highest possible goal that a junior can make - shield representation.

by the way, i think the scores were befitting of the individuals bowlers adaptation to the condition presented to them at the time and this is how it should be. the bowler should be rewarded for good adaptation via good scoring and punished with low scores for bad adaptation. we all should have to work at it in one way or another to get the results we desire regardless of the oil pattern.

 

[Fitzy]

I know I will not be popular for this but here goes!

I think, personally, that juniors should not be held to an 'elite' mentality. They are, as the title suggests, JUNIOR. They should be out there to have FUN, enjoy their bowling, come home with glee in their eyes and dying for the next tournament to hurry up and arrive so that they can enjoy the euphoric feeling that you get when you do something you love and do well. Let them go and brag to their mates of their experience and spread the word of bowling throughout their community. Applaud those that did well and nurture those that did not and provide pathways for all to excel.

Let them go through juniors and explain when they are a little more mature (youth) that the conditions were 'easier' and now they will start to experience more difficult conditions, where a lot more practice and knowledge will be needed to succeed. Then they will know that Youth is going to be different that the feelings felt as a junior can still happen, though, work is needed to achieve those feelings. Youth is then an area that you are 'trained' for open tournaments.

If you see a junior with potential offer training, offer support. Maybe even have the likes of our NSO to establish a 'training centre' of some sort. But, let the kids have fun while they can!

As I did not go up through the ranks as junior, nor youth. I do not know how it is exactly out there, though this to me is the most logical progression.

Most sports do it this way.

I mean, you don't go down to football (soccer) training and put preps on the field and expect them to play 'real' football, you don't split them into back, midfield and forwards, explain tactics and expect them to win. You put them on the field put two 'goals' up put a ball in the middle, blow a whistle and watch the melee ensue. All players, on both teams, win.

When in junior you don't put them on a field and dock their pay if they let too many goals through, you let them ENJOY and hone their skills for senior level. Provide avenues to better their game.
Select colts (youth) and send youth players to QAS (your states equivalent) to provide specialized training for future endeavors.
Again, I did not go through this process either though I believe this is similar to the avenue that is available for football players.

just my $0.05

cheers,

 

[((( Hinton )))]

Anyone who had hand was at a disadvantage.The straighter bowlers killed it, the whole time.

stringing for the power players was tough as the pins where quite old apparently and corner pins where not being very kind either.

i recall during shield we bowled on lane 1 and 2 and on lane 1 someone counted 14 seven pin leaves for one team, i also think half of them came from one bowler(sorry nick )

s yeah the pattern was diffidently playable, but stringing strikes for the power players was rather difficult!

 

[GBS]

There have been some excellent posts here.

At the end of the day, this is about juniors, of all ages, both male and female, all averages and ALL ABILITIES.

The pattern to many was somewhere in between ... too easy and too difficult.

To my way of thinking, juniors is about 1. Fun, 2. Learning, 3. How to win and 4. How to do the other.

Juniors is a transitition stage to youth, to adults and to seniors.

Next year the pattern will be different, the lanes will be different, the skills will be different and ultimately the champions will be different.

Juniors should be about encouragement, fun, enjoyment and hopefully making this sport as a lifetime activity, at whatever level.

The pattern is not important, the lane is 60 feet long, go knock down the pins, enjoy and above all LEARN.

Hope this helps

GB

 

[GeorgeF]

I personally think Nationals should represent the pinnacle of junior bowling, with pinnacles come challenges, laying something easy is no pinnacle in my books, merely a get together of juniors to participate in a bowling tournament with new friends from different places.

If you want to lay something easy where the kids walk away with false beliefs on how good they really are just continue down the current pathway. Call it a carnival though, it doesn't deserve to be Nationals.

The lane condition never stopped the winner from winning, if you lay something tougher someone will still win, people will still compete, there will be winners and losers. Junior bowlers should be challenging themselves at Nationals, not setting their yearly high scores. I'm not saying US Open style hard, something maybe from the Kegel challenge series where the ratio is around the 3:1 mark.

It's not the kids fault, they just want to compete and do their best. The problem rests with TBA and their belief of laying something easy to keep the masses happy. Junior Nationals are not alone in this problem, Adult Nationals are in the same basket.

What a fantastic message our governing body is delivering...... Can't wait for Adult Nationals this year where I hope to avg 240+ for my all events to hopefully finish in the top 10

 

[the_bowen]

Maybe TBA should look at having 2 oil patterns.

The first one could be a normal house pattern which would be used for squads which is when all of the younger bowlers bowl.

The second pattern could be a hardern pattern maybe longer or more oil which could be used during sheild and masters.
Maybe for sheild have 2 different patterns for the 3 days, say 1st and 3rd day could be a long pattern around 40-42ft and then for the 2nd day have a shorter pattern say around 34-36ft or something like that.

 

[Michael Little]

I think TBA as our governing body should be laying something tougher for our up and coming bowlers. Laying an easy pattern does nothing but boost some ego's and give some kids a false sense of achievement. Nationals is suppose to be the pinnacle of the sport, therefor in my books the toughest pattern of them all.

Whats your thoughts? My opinion another mistake by TBA

I dont necessarily think it was that big a mistake by the TBA, on paper the pattern looks easy, on a regular day it is easy, bowling 5 man teams suddenly changes that and creates a whole new challenge. I can only think back to my own shield days, there werent many 200+ averages been thrown, but we also played in dungeon like bowls where plastic scored higher and guardian was the lane surface of choice.

I believe the bowen has some merit in their comments, seperating patterns for nationals and president shield.

Nationals is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport but what happens when a B or C grade kid comes along to bowl on some tough shot, bowls rubbish because they have no idea what to do, they are just there to compete, get disheartened and give it away. If they are really keen they might not take it to heart and seek to improve themselves, but far too many dont. By having a beefed up (oil wise) house pattern, allow the actual events to be played on this. Save the harder pattern for shield and the masters as this is where the pinnacle of the juniors are supposed to be. All the teams are supposed to have level 2 coaches travelling with them to guide them through ball selection, parts of the lanes etc.

I believe from watching the shield over a couple of days, the coaches should have had a bigger say as to why the kids didnt score higher. Sure the straighter players are always going to succeed, that is the characteristic of the bowl itself, as the usual house shot tends to be dry in the middle and drier outside. Some kids had the smarts to work it out with ball selection, but others needed the guidance of their coaches. I couldnt believe how many kids I saw trying to play with their mid range or high performance balls in the same part of the lane, just about everyones gear rolling out, hitting the pocket like a soggy tissue. Maybe the kids only have high performance gear with them, poor equipment choice to take, but the scoring could have been so much higher using low flaring, low reactive, urethane or plastic for how the lanes broke down. It almost reminded me of terrible times at Rockhampton in the junior teams event where even the plastic had burn marks in them.

There should have been higher scores during the events or masters rather than president shield itself, not just because teams events are usually harder, but the breakdown of the lane condition.

This is probably the only fall down of where the TBA went with the lane conditions, they should have known the centre usually plays dry, started beefing up the condition prior to the nationals. If the centre had wood lanes, they would be in need of a resurface after the two weeks.

Overall from watching some of the nationals and a couple of days of shield, the bowl was packed to the hilt, all the bowlers trying as hard as possible and like in years before, new friendships formed and everyone enjoying themselves. It was a good atmosphere. I think those that havent played shield and are now playing Rachuig dont realise just how much difference there is in the competitions.

Thats all for now, go buy a Roto Grip ball!

 

[jonesy911]

Maybe TBA should look at having 2 oil patterns.

The first one could be a normal house pattern which would be used for squads which is when all of the younger bowlers bowl.

The second pattern could be a hardern pattern maybe longer or more oil which could be used during sheild and masters.
Maybe for sheild have 2 different patterns for the 3 days, say 1st and 3rd day could be a long pattern around 40-42ft and then for the 2nd day have a shorter pattern say around 34-36ft or something like that.

I like the idea but there are 2 problems with that you would probably get every junior that struggles on the oil pattern for masters and shield complain and say stuff like " its stupid how come we didnt have this oil pattern earliar" and " i bowled crap cause i didnt get any practice on the pattern besides warm up" and the second one is the shield bowlers that had already bowled on that pattern and make masters would have a huge advantage over the bowlers that didn't bowl shield

 

[Street Racer]

Anyone who had hand was at a disadvantage.The straighter bowlers killed it, the whole time.

having watched alot of the bowling down there boys and girls..... i would have to disagree

Mr Wingett killed the pattern and has alot more hand then 3/4 of the other bowlers there.. kyle webber as well... and then theres the the alot less reving shots which made all stars as well(not meaning to tease anyone on rev rate) having saying that i actually thought the pattern was very fair for all types of bowling styles.. cause if you look at the all stars... theres a mix of high and low rev bowlers..


I seen alot of bowlers just putting in wayyy to much power on there ball(mainly high rev rates)... with the length and oil volume on the lanes.. i think you didnt really need to rev the ball too much and just let the ball do the work.. this is why i think alot of the low reving players did bowl alot better then the high rev bowlers..

Also just editing this to comment on mick littles comments
also seen alot of rolling out shots with alot of high performance gear...... which made some of the bowlers rev the ball even more? i dont know what happened to entry level-mid range gear??

i'm not saying this is true, and this was my experience only WATCHING the bowling, i didnt bowl a single ball down the lane...

getting back to the easy or hard pattern...

it could of been a little bit harder... but you with the pattern you had to be on your adjusting with the low volume oil.... even more in shield...

i think 3:1 is going abit too far... maybe 6:1 pattern would be good... if i remember mt gravatt was 10:1 or even 11:1

anyway my 2cs...

 

[Porto]

I wouldn't click the link... Looks just a bit suss

 

[$$Pricey$$]

I wouldn't click the link... Looks just a bit suss

i bet you clicked on it though...

 

[AdrianS]

34-9!!! Dumb!!!!!!

 

[Michael Little]

I like the idea but there are 2 problems with that you would probably get every junior that struggles on the oil pattern for masters and shield complain and say stuff like " its stupid how come we didnt have this oil pattern earliar" and " i bowled crap cause i didnt get any practice on the pattern besides warm up" and the second one is the shield bowlers that had already bowled on that pattern and make masters would have a huge advantage over the bowlers that didn't bowl shield

I have only bowled a couple of Rachuigs since, but I can remember Rachuig one year at Bankstown, where the teams were able to practice on the pattern the night prior to Rachuig starting. This could be done again, as long as done properly. It could be opened up at specific times perhaps early in the morning or late at night when not interfering with squad times for bowlers outside of shield to play on, or perhaps have a mandatory period of qualifying for masters, where the qualifying is only completed using lanes with that specific oil pattern. They qualify on it, and then compete on it. Maybe this would work, who knows.

I think the last time I played Rachuig at Strikezone we were able to do this as well as they had two seperate patterns, one supposed long and one short.

The only think I agree with George on is for the Shield and Masters were the higher skilled bowlers at the nationals generally complete is that the lane condition should be harder for this section of the nationals, in the instance of this years nationals, the pattern on paper was easy, but in reality due to lack of oil, 5 man teams, every man and his dog using equipment they probably shouldnt be. That is why I thought the emphasis should be looked at with the coaches and how they directed the kids to play and what equipment to use. The scoring could have been a lot higher that what it was and all these factors contributed.