Lack of AO entries... what is the cause?

[wchester]

As I see it, there are two things wrong with the tournament bowling scene in Australia

The ROI or return on investment isn't very appealing to any of the bowlers. First place should pay 10 x your entry fee at a minimum. And low in the finals should be 3 x the cost of an entry. WE have two choices here..either lower the entry fees via running tournaments with a shorter format, or pay less spots. paying 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 would do just fine. After all, this IS scratch bowling isn't it? If you don't cut, you really don't deserve to get any money back in return.

Secondly and maybe even more to the point is that we simply don't have the numbers to support a major circuit. With less than 20 top notch players in all of Australia, we're just a miniscule blip on the radar screen that makes up tenpin bowling worldwide.

 

[Jez]

It is tough and i hear both sides of the agruement:
1. More money is needed to attract ppl to travel to the events
2. Need to spread money further down and increase $$ further down to get the fringe bowlers bowling...

I dont know what the answer is but i do know having to run top 5 in every major event to break even is not viable even for the "top" bowlers in the country.
Somehow we have to get an even mix i believe only bowlers who make the cut should be paid ( i am not sure about AO but i know there are events which pay to like 40th).....I think paying 30 is plenty...

As i said i am with George and Matt on this one...i would love to see a prizefund like G as outlined...do i think it would increase numbers???? probably not. And as Matt said if ppl think they are bowling in Aust to make money they are kidding themselves it will not happen, but having said that i am not going to pay $1000 to go and see my friends..i mean u can do that for a couple of hundred dollars and not have bowling for 3 days.

At the end of the day it comes down to lack of sponsorship for tournaments..u can not increase the entrie fees as they are already high enough..if you decrease games ppl say they are not getting value for money....somehow we need a sponsor for the major events to throw in some decent money $100,000 at least for the six majors and give them naming rights for the series. Eg Coca-Cola Series....

And then it all comes back to exposure..... companies will not throw money at bowling until it gets exposure...television..the Ten Pin Bowling show is great now imagine if we got that on Fox or Free to Air...then you can go and sell the game..companies would then see value in sponsorship..atm u go to companies and say give us $100,000 what would they get back from it...couple of banners at the event........need to be able to say u get advertising during all telecast......maybe i am dreaming but that is the direction it has to go to

 

[mattr]

It is tough and i hear both sides of the agruement:
1. More money is needed to attract ppl to travel to the events
2. Need to spread money further down and increase $$ further down to get the fringe bowlers bowling...
I dont know what the answer is but i do know having to run top 5 in every major event to break even is not viable even for the "top" bowlers in the country.
Somehow we have to get an even mix i believe only bowlers who make the cut should be paid ( i am not sure about AO but i know there are events which pay to like 40th).....I think paying 30 is plenty...
As i said i am with George and Matt on this one...i would love to see a prizefund like G as outlined...do i think it would increase numbers???? probably not. And as Matt said if ppl think they are bowling in Aust to make money they are kidding themselves it will not happen, but having said that i am not going to pay $1000 to go and see my friends..i mean u can do that for a couple of hundred dollars and not have bowling for 3 days.
At the end of the day it comes down to lack of sponsorship for tournaments..u can not increase the entrie fees as they are already high enough..if you decrease games ppl say they are not getting value for money....somehow we need a sponsor for the major events to throw in some decent money $100,000 at least for the six majors and give them naming rights for the series. Eg Coca-Cola Series....
And then it all comes back to exposure..... companies will not throw money at bowling until it gets exposure...television..the Ten Pin Bowling show is great now imagine if we got that on Fox or Free to Air...then you can go and sell the game..companies would then see value in sponsorship..atm u go to companies and say give us $100,000 what would they get back from it...couple of banners at the event........need to be able to say u get advertising during all telecast......maybe i am dreaming but that is the direction it has to go to

spot on Jez u handsome beast

I dont understand why AMF cant get behind it, i mean we all spend alot of money in these centres maybe they could give some back.

 

[GeorgeF]

It is a little unfair on AMF to cop a lot of criticism, without their backing we wouldn't be bowling this weekend or very much through out the year. Add together the payouts and then compare it to how much money they actually take, most times they are not charging for game rates (thats their form of sponsorship). I think AMF is behind it!

 

[mattr]

It is a little unfair on AMF to cop a lot of criticism, without their backing we wouldn't be bowling this weekend or very much through out the year. Add together the payouts and then compare it to how much money they actually take, most times they are not charging for game rates (thats their form of sponsorship). I think AMF is behind it!

So if AMF are giving us free bowling where does all the entry fee go then.

Somehow i htink u will find we are paying around 4 to 5 bucks a game

AMF do support it im not saying they dont but perhaps they can put in alot more money along with Macquarie and get tournament bowling back on top

 

[Troyza]

I dont understand why AMF cant get behind it, i mean we all spend alot of money in these centres maybe they could give some back.

That's like asking Bill Gates to pay for your computer.

You'll find that AMF would be more worried about making money rather than advertising the game as a sport, because the majority of Australians see bowling as a game people go & enjoy rather than a competitive sport. Look at it this way; Australia's 'bowling market' would have to consist of something like 4:1 social bowlers to league bowlers, meaning 1 in 5 people who have been bowling, bowl in a league, & even less bowl competitively in interstate tournaments.
Are AMF going to portray the sport to appeal to that 20% of potential money, or are they going to go for the cake & appeal for the big 80% piece? Their target market is social bowling, even if they do cater for league & tournament bowlers somewhat cheaply. They probably see it as too much of a gamble; portray bowling as a sport, even though 90% of Australian's don't have the ability to take it seriously, & possibly lose a big slice of that 80% social market, or take the easy money route, go along with the majority of the Australian public, & watch sales roar.

& even with that said, Australia doesn't have enough large tournaments to cover bowling as a sport anyways, which is just going to reinforce targeting the social market. It's true, a tycoon like AMF should have the balls to give a bit back to competitive bowlers in Australia, but some companies are just too money driven.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

And then it all comes back to exposure..... companies will not throw money at bowling until it gets exposure...television..the Ten Pin Bowling show is great now imagine if we got that on Fox or Free to Air...then you can go and sell the game..companies would then see value in sponsorship..atm u go to companies and say give us $100,000 what would they get back from it...couple of banners at the event........need to be able to say u get advertising during all telecast......maybe i am dreaming but that is the direction it has to go to

That is the plan! Hopefully we can interest a free to air network or foxtel in the show. Tony has thought outside the square a little bit here and is trying to get a saleable product up and running in such a way that hopefully a network will pickup the tab themselves, rather than bowling having to pick up a very hefty tab, probably over $1,000,000 for a year of bowling on the TV.

Maybe, then the sponsorship will flow and the prizefunds will improve markedly.

 

[mattr]

That is the plan! Hopefully we can interest a free to air network or foxtel in the show. Tony has thought outside the square a little bit here and is trying to get a saleable product up and running in such a way that hopefully a network will pickup the tab themselves, rather than bowling having to pick up a very hefty tab, probably over $1,000,000 for a year of bowling on the TV.
Maybe, then the sponsorship will flow and the prizefunds will improve markedly.

WOW wouldnt that be nice

this could be a good thing

I think we need a better commentator tho haha

 

[GeorgeF]

Matt the money goes back to the bowlers in form of a PRIZEFUND. Where did you think it went?

Add up the SA Cup figures and see how much they paid out v how much we bowlers paid to enter, you'll be surprised

 

[mattr]

well thats true but forgive me i dont bowl alot these days so its kind hard to believe but its thats the case awesome work AMF

 

[Brenton_Davy]

WOW wouldnt that be nice
this could be a good thing
I think we need a better commentator tho haha

Yeah, well, that goes without saying, doesn't it!

:surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender:

 

[Jez]

I know AMF target market is social play but i feel they can use the tournaments to target this audience..this may sound stupid but hear me out...
When i watch the Australian Open (tennis) every year on the television 9 times out of ten me and my mates will go and have a game of tennis. This is because it stimulates you to go and play the sport..same as golf etc.

I think if u got bowling on TV social play would increase..ppl would see it and go..gee it has been a while since i gave that ago lets go have a game..it creates interest and ppl will go and try it...they will not go join a league but they may go play it 3-4 times a year socially purely coz they have seen it on tele and it has reminded them of the game and how much fun they had.

Hopefully this is in the strategic marketing plan of AMF but unfortunately i dont think it is as they dont see the value in marketing the game as a sport

 

[BELMO]

I know why no-one wants to bowl anymore.

The reasons everyone has stated PLUS.........

NO-ONE is shown a good time.

Its thank you for your entry fee, here is your lane, see you tomorrow if you bowled well enough for a cheque! If not, the entry forms for the next event will be out in the next few months.


Strike City, a new bowling centre run by my family, frawls, delany will be opening in May this year, in Sydney.
Not only is this bowling centres going to be one of the nicest and modern bowling centres you will ever walk into but when we run our tournament, its going to give the bowlers what they deserve.

I wish more people could of seen how its done in Europe......WOW.

BUT when we run ours, we will have the europeans/pba players/ asain bowling tour players/ AUSTRALIAN PLAYERS saying....."Are you kidding me, this is over the top"

Once you see how a event should be run (our event), every event in Australia is going to get a quick slap across the face.

Be patient my fellow tournament bowlers, I for see a change coming and its going to be HUGE!

Belmo via NYC

 

[Shoey]

if Strike City tournaments are going to be anything like they way Aldo & Marissa make bowlers feel welcome when they visit Orange and how well organised torunaments are in Orange it can only be ALL GOOD for tournament bowlers.

i hope that your prediction does come true Belmo, if only for the sake of tournament bowling in OZ

 

[wchester]

George has his facts wrong. I've been in contact with AMF's National Tournament Director Brett Best. As related to me by Brett , AMF takes $5.50 per game during the Super Six Tournaments. Next year it is scheduled to go up to $5.60 per game for lineage.

I've done the figures for the upcoming Australian Open and found that even with only 80 entries, the total lineage collected by AMF will amount to $8,393. Not a bad bottom line when you consider that the bowl still gets to have three nights of open play during the long weekend.

 

[RobbieB]

$5.50 per game for the Adult super 6, $5.80 per game for the Junior Nationals. Ouch.

Tournament bowling has been screwed since sledging was banned. Tourneys these days are about as exciting as watching chess matches.

 

[Jase]

Plain and simple…People need to negotiate better…Find an AMF centre (if that’s where they need to be held) that will run the event at $4.00 a game…

Perhaps these events should be run by and independent committee and not staff from AMF…

I know I only run a country circuit in QLD but the game rate is capped at nothing near that $5.50 (if wchesters info is correct) that AMF are getting…But hey if they want the event they take it…if not I look for another venue to host it…

I have also been approached by some centres here in the city to start a circuit also and I can assure you that in some of those AMF centres they are talking only $4.00 a game…If this is the case then why can’t we negotiate that for the Majors…

I can assure you that every centre I have approached is more than pleased to take the event… and in the busier centres they inform me that the amount of games they get at that rate is about what they take in social play that weekend anyway…They too still have their night trade, so they see it as a great weekend and look forward to next year…

 

[Graham]

I've done the figures for the upcoming Australian Open and found that even with only 80 entries, the total lineage collected by AMF will amount to $8,393. Not a bad bottom line when you consider that the bowl still gets to have three nights of open play during the long weekend.

But then do the sums and figure out how much the total entry fee was that was taken in by AMF, and then the payout made for the tournament. Then take out the game rate charged by the centre. There is always a short fall on the figures. And how does the short fall get made up ? AMF put up the dollars.

When I was with AMF doing these tournaments, the shortfall that had to be chipped in by AMF often was equal to or exceeded the income made from the game rates. So the centre, while they got a decent income and it showed on the bottom line, it was almost always money from head office tournament sponsorship fund that paid for the game rates. The rest of the money went back to the bowlers as prize fund.

AMF as a company doesn't make any money from holding the tournament (well at least they didn't when I was involved). If you did the sums on what sort of payout would occur if the short fall was not subsidised, i'm sure you would have even more trouble attracting entries than is occuring now.

 

[allenj]

Hi all
some months ago i put up a thread re tournament costs etc. we are an independant centre, we suggested planning a tournament based on $10.00 to $15.00 admin fee as opposed to a $ cost per game per bowler. with the rest of the money going into the prize fund. we thought that this may be a way of reducing costs, or entry fees. i was quite surprised when there were no comments put on the thread.
maybe we need to involve the independant centres, as there are more independants in auastralia than there are amf centres .
just some of our thoughts.
regards allenj