Its even tougher.
- Thread starter dockers
- Start date
jimcross
Active Member
In another post, I've already confessed to being completely clueless about reading and coping with differing lane conditions, and ball selection, so my questions are pretty basic. What constitutes " a very easy condition for years"? Before you could create multiple conditions at will, that is, when the machine put down what it put down ( or the bloke with the spray bottle sprayed what he sprayed ), how come I could score on whatever was there?
From late 1960 to early 1964, ( I think those years are right ), I averaged high 180s in everything I bowled in. There were only rubber or plastic balls. I had a rubber one with a conventional drilling. During that time I bowled a few - probably 3 to 5 - 279 games, as my high games. From memory a 2 board adjustment was pretty massive.
When I came back in the early 90s, believe it or not I was a bit older than before, but, of course it was a bit before the " Universal Kegal "era, and I found that I still could bowl a bit. A couple of 290s, a 289, 749 for 3, and a 954 for 4. I could usually manage to ave a bit over 200 in a few tourneys I went in. The last one was Canberra Open in 2001 - I averaged 204 / 206 ish, on whatever the condition happened to be, and with whatever ball I had, by simply bowling a few balls down on a handful of simple lines, and picking one, and then being consistant in approach and release and being dead accurate. I know I had an unfair advantage as I was only 68 at the time.
Since then, all hell has broken loose, and just what the hell are we trying to prove? --- That the best people at lane analysis and consequent line and ball selection are the winners? That's fine, but that could be done in the form of a written exam - who needs to go near a Bowling Centre?
Jim I see where your coming from we seem to be always trying to change things supposedly for the better but it dosen't always seem to work look at golf and tennis they changed the driver to give the players a larger sweet spot then a guy named tiger came along after a while they changed course design so the big hitters wouldn't dominate ,tennis. Gave the racket a larger sweet spot made it a bit easier then they found there were less rallies not great for tv so they started to muck around with ball pressure and length of fur on the ball to slow every one down, bowling look at scores and 300s since the 90s now they bring in all these different conditions world wide may be to take it back a peg or two for instance I watched the pba last year I think Jason won that one ,they had long on one lane short on the other lane why..?
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Not sure if thats a dig at my comment or not, but the fact is that the most likely reason that the scores are as low as they are is that the bowlers don't have the equipment to match up to a very demanding condition properly. It's not a pattern I would choose for seniors because of that simple fact. Most of the guys who walk into league with six balls want to be able to use them every week, so they all end up drilled to work on a medium length ditch. On longer patterns the equipment they use every week is usable even if it's not usually optimal, so it at least gives them a chance to keep the ball in play, but on the short stuff every mistake will be through the face or washout.
Jim, the range of strength of equipment is much greater than a few years ago, and the range of oil patterns designed to combat the modern equipment is commensurately larger too. Easy house patterns have been around for a long while, and for a long while tournamnet patterns followed suit. That's one reason our national teams kept gettng hammered overseas - simply a lack of exposure to tougher conditions. This is also what the casual tournament bowlers are copping now too.
Sharing the wealth of knowledge, lecturing, whatever you want to call it - there are many on this site and others who can help anyone going to a tourney where they know the pattern will be tough, it only takes a post to ask for suggestions on balls and surfaces to use. Scoring will be lower on WTBA patterns, but it shouldn't be THAT low - if some help on selection, layout and surface changes will let people score to their maximum potential on whatever pattern they will be bowling in then surely it makes sense to ask for that help? Hell, most of the entrants sign up through this site, get Dousty or someone to sticky a 'how to play this pattern' post at the top of the thread.
Like it or not (and I admit to being in the 'not' group) equipment is becoming more and more important to the game. You don't have to be an expert though, because experts are here and accessible for the effort of pushing a few keys. That should be seen as a good thing, not a bad thing.
Lecture over
Hey Robbo
I never said they were the leaders, Plenty of juniors can't even count how many bowling balls they have
Kicking ball returns, Yes we all know of some people who were very good at that do't we...
Anthony L
Tony Long
Question - How come all this diagnosis etc and what we Seniors are suppose to do and how we are supposed for do it in Seniors Events come from either people that are NOT yet 50 yrs old or from bench warmers that do not bowl in the tournaments ??? - Not too many threads from the actual bowlers that bowl in them !!!!
All Seniors Events have pretty much a full field of bowlers - said if before and will say it again - IF IT AIN'T BROKE THEN DON'T TRY AND FIX IT...
All Seniors Events have pretty much a full field of bowlers - said if before and will say it again - IF IT AIN'T BROKE THEN DON'T TRY AND FIX IT...
And was there the same scathing comments after the Australian Open last year about laying ditches that there regularly is after a Seniors event when the winner averages 230.
I think the person that started the post was covered by Tonys "NOT yet 50 yrs old or from bench warmers that do not bowl in the tournaments". Completely agree.
jimcross
Active Member
Whatever that has to do with bowling in Senior tournaments in 2013 i haven't got a clue.
Anthony L's comment was:- "either people that are "NOT yet 50 yrs old" OR "from bench warmers that do not bowl in the tournament.
never said she was in the "NOT yet 50 yrs old" category.
but I am pretty sure she falls into the "from bench warmers that do not bowl in the tournament" category as she hasn't picked up a ball in a good 15 years.
Anyway, comments aren't aimed at dockers. more at the armchair senior expert/wannabes.
As stated before Senior tournaments are nearly always full with waiting lists. Last weekend had 111 bowlers. You'd have to go pre-2000 i would say to find any Adult tournaments that had that on a regular basis.
There not playing for sheep stations. $1,000 first prize.
Maybe people should concentrate there efforts on improving the Adult tournament scene. $3,000, $5,000 first prize & most tournaments cant crack the 70 bowler mark.
You tell me were the problem is.
People seem to get on here when a Senior tournament is won with a 230+ ave with everyone screaming ditch. Then when they put a tougher condition down everyone is on here bagging them for that. WTF
Very interested in the discussion regarding the need for the right oil pattern and bowling ball choice etc for Seniors tournaments. My view may be a little different. As a Senior bowler (who used to whinge more than anyone about such things ), I now realise that there is no such thing as a poor, bad or any other adjective lane condition. I say this because experience has shown that no matter what is put down there will be bowlers that are comfortable with the condition. Further, most tournament or practiced bowlers have what I call a signature shot and consequently a comfort zone lane condition. If they have to play out of their comfort zone and/or modify their hand release, they may struggle to score and so consider the condition hard.
To me a "hard" lane condition is where most bowlers can strike freely, ie. a carry house condition. I say this is hard because if a bowler can't carry, the tournament is over for that bowler. In this case spares are a negative. Conversely an "easy" condition is one where strikes are hard to get and spares are a premium. Just a different way at looking at things.
Bridgie
To me a "hard" lane condition is where most bowlers can strike freely, ie. a carry house condition. I say this is hard because if a bowler can't carry, the tournament is over for that bowler. In this case spares are a negative. Conversely an "easy" condition is one where strikes are hard to get and spares are a premium. Just a different way at looking at things.
Bridgie
Roysa
Well-Known Member
I don't see what you are saying Chin. A senior got on here and started a thread about how tough the condition was. There is no "wtf" moment at all. I'm trying to understand do the seniors want it easy or hard?
There is no Adults V Seniors issue here in my opinion.
Serious question.... Who decided the patterns?
There is no Adults V Seniors issue here in my opinion.
Serious question.... Who decided the patterns?
Kevin Blackmore
Old Bowler
If I can get a response from someone that Actually bowled on the condition at Keon Park on the weekend and has some knowledge of lane conditions, I would like to know if the condition that was given to us to bowl on was what was actual the advertised condition. I went to Keon Park with a rough plan as to what the line might be and the equipment that might work, this went out the window during practice. I expected that there would be a reasonable back end, but on the first ball just managed to hit the 6-10 pins. I tend to watch the bowlers that can carry and the only ones that did carry had a lot of ball speed which at 61 I'm sadly lacking as are a lot of others. I have bowled in the US and after seeing the proposed lane condition have worked out a plan of equipment and possible line that might work, in most cases I have been reasonably successful. In Aussie land we rely on the Centre Tech's to ensure the machines are serviced and laying the required pattern on the lanes, there is no check on the lanes to see if the pattern is as required.
I'm getting to old to get frustrated that I can't throw the ball hard enough to get a competitive score on what ever these conditions we have had to bowl on in the last two Senior tournaments and waste money travelling to each state. If it wasn't for the friendship from fellow bowlers I probably would have given up years ago. I just want a fair go for someone that has been bowling since I was 14 (49years) and was enjoying it.
I'm getting to old to get frustrated that I can't throw the ball hard enough to get a competitive score on what ever these conditions we have had to bowl on in the last two Senior tournaments and waste money travelling to each state. If it wasn't for the friendship from fellow bowlers I probably would have given up years ago. I just want a fair go for someone that has been bowling since I was 14 (49years) and was enjoying it.
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Yep for many reasons, but thats not what i said. It was alluded that there is a Us V them attitude in here, for whatever reason im not sure.
Just angry people, i dont get it.
Right, so do any of the Tournament Committee frequent this forum? Im not trying to stir anything up im trying to understand why if the last 2 tournaments have caused so much heated discussion there hasnt been a 'meeting' of those who can actually affect a change?
All im reading is complaints that this one was too hard. Help an "Adult" understand please.
Similar threads
