How CAn We Help Country Cup

[Woza]

In regards to oiling..[/B]
just a side note.. why exactly did Ballarat have to refill the oiling machine after 1-8 then do 9-16.. I'm not a tech or that knowledgeable on the subject but I would have thought an oiling machine could do 16 lanes in one go?
To bowl 8x5 games in one oil imho for some bowlers to be competitive across the 8 games it would require bowlers to get more equipment (in some cases it wouldn't be suitable for their week to week leagues), how do bowlers effectively practice for the dry as **** conditions if their centre is one that isn't afraid to put some oil on their lanes.. obviously some bowlers have bowled many other tournaments whether teams or individual and have experience with sort of thing, but not all bowlers in country cup bowl other tournaments.. they are the week to week league bowlers.. (such as myself)
As stated before in the thread the lanes at Ballarat held up reasonable for 3 games then started to really change from there, bowl another 4 games on those lanes and well it would have been interesting...

Well Travvy you have just given yourself 12 months of homework to improve your effectiveness as a CCup bowler.
Not everyone is as adapt at bowling on dry lanes as not everyone is adapt at bowling on super wet lanes.
To be adaptable and to be able to post competive scores on any condition is what you should be aiming for.
To say dry conditions take the power players out of the equation is only partially true. In my opinion most power players that I have seen at CCup are fine if they are striking but could not spare to save themselves if they are not. The good power players - of which you have one in your centre can do both.
That is the difference between being an ok CCup bowler on super wet conditions and a goto man on any condition which is what you should be aiming for.
Look at conditions that we got a Bendigo - stand left throw it right - could not miss if you were a power player - It became a carry fest - 1 corner pin and your game was lost. Last year at Sale was tougher but for different reasons there were alot more higher games last year than this year but also alot of lower ones. This year was tough also as the lanes really did change from games 1 - 4. Strikes were important but you will soon learn that making a critical spare in a pressure cooker situation is what when make you a great CCup bowler.
Personally I want the condition to be as tough as possible where you are rewarded for good shots and punished for bad (could say that about Ballarat) and that is when you will see the really good CCUp bowlers come into their own

 

[ace_hi]

Personally I want the condition to be as tough as possible where you are rewarded for good shots and punished for bad (could say that about Ballarat) and that is when you will see the really good CCUp bowlers come into their own

could not have said it better myself WOZA..and truth be known we would all like to see it come down to the last frame every year.. thats what we all bowl for

Ace_Hi

 

[craig]

mc kinnon makes all stars every where

so does way

these are the best 2 going round

 

[Straight_kut]

Also if there is a genuine concern about the lanes condition holding up then would it really matter if there was an lane maintenance interval after 4 games during an 8 game block.

Rob said that in Mildura the lanes can be done in 22 mins.. I dont see that being a big deal having the extra oil.. those with suitable oiling machines should do similar times..

Well Travvy you have just given yourself 12 months of homework to improve your effectiveness as a CCup bowler.
Not everyone is as adapt at bowling on dry lanes as not everyone is adapt at bowling on super wet lanes.
To be adaptable and to be able to post competive scores on any condition is what you should be aiming for.
To say dry conditions take the power players out of the equation is only partially true. In my opinion most power players that I have seen at CCup are fine if they are striking but could not spare to save themselves if they are not. The good power players - of which you have one in your centre can do both.
That is the difference between being an ok CCup bowler on super wet conditions and a goto man on any condition which is what you should be aiming for.
Look at conditions that we got a Bendigo - stand left throw it right - could not miss if you were a power player - It became a carry fest - 1 corner pin and your game was lost. Last year at Sale was tougher but for different reasons there were alot more higher games last year than this year but also alot of lower ones. This year was tough also as the lanes really did change from games 1 - 4. Strikes were important but you will soon learn that making a critical spare in a pressure cooker situation is what when make you a great CCup bowler.
Personally I want the condition to be as tough as possible where you are rewarded for good shots and punished for bad (could say that about Ballarat) and that is when you will see the really good CCUp bowlers come into their own

Given our centre uses oil.. how do i practice the affects of lanes having 40 games bowled on them (8x5 as some people suggest)?? or even 30 games..

Its not something you can just practice for.. and also i have no real dry lane gear.. so you are saying I need to go buy a couple new balls just in case?
There is never a guarantee i'll be even in country cup next year or any year?

Agreed we don't want a lollipop condition for the entire tournament, but as you saw there were testing conditions at Ballarat through the 4 games.
Those that proved they were good enough to adapt deserve the results they got with out a doubt.
But also we had 3 all star bowlers in the team and still lost.. so talking about individual bowlers in a team shouldn't even be an issue.

Takes between 5 & 7 bowlers to win country cup not 1, 2 or 3.

 

[bowlrig]

Takes between 5 & 7 bowlers to win country cup not 1, 2 or 3.

Best comment you have come up with yet Trav.

Wish there was a couple of fellows could get on here and read it.

Rob

 

[Straight_kut]

Best comment you have come up with yet Trav.
Wish there was a couple of fellows could get on here and read it.
Rob

agreed 100%

 

[Straight_kut]

Sorry just to clarify my line about the 3 all star bowlers i was referring to the mens team(mostly guys talking here kinda forget abotu the ladies sorry), we also had 2 ladies make it too.

 

[*chook :>*]

Those that proved they were good enough to adapt deserve the results they got with out a doubt.
But also we had 3 all star bowlers in the team and still lost.. so talking about individual bowlers in a team shouldn't even be an issue.
Takes between 5 & 7 bowlers to win country cup not 1, 2 or 3.

Agreed. But averages aside, (eg if every man in the Sunraysia team could spare that sinlge pin that they missed to lose a game by a spare, you would have won.

Im not having a dig at anyone, that was just an example. You need to win points and spares are what win those points.
I know there is "No 'I' In Team" blah blah blah and I am a huge "team" oriented bowler myself BUT it is the individual bowler that needs to stand up on the approach and know that he/she can take out that single pin. Or max pins out of a split..
Conditions should not be a factor to anyone when it comes to spares. That's why "SPARE BALLS" are made. Plastics, that do the same thing on any condition. Throw it straight!

have no real dry lane gear.. so you are saying I need to go buy a couple new balls just in case?

Take off your wrist brace and you practically have 4 new bowling balls.



I know I suggested the 8 straight format, but reviewing it and realising that its 5 man teams (d'oh) 40 games is too much.
I do really like Dave's Idea of the 6 games men-ladies-men.
So Mr Black, if that^^'s another option, I vote that one.
If not then #2 for me.
Too much fiddle-farting around with all the other ones!

Alicia Garioch

 

[Straight_kut]

You know i cant bowl with out the brace leash.. So no i dont have 4 new balls with out..
My wrist isnt strong enough even with my 8lb balls (hi woza lol)

I too would vote daves idea.. IF it was made an option.

 

[*chook :>*]

It doesnt need to be strong.
You wanted the balls to go straighter didnt you?
If you dont want to buy new gear, you dont have to. You have to option there, why not use it. Even try it...??

 

[Woza]

But also we had 3 all star bowlers in the team and still lost.. so talking about individual bowlers in a team shouldn't even be an issue.
Takes between 5 & 7 bowlers to win country cup not 1, 2 or 3.

I agree 100% with you Travvy,
When we won in 2004 we had no-one in the allstars it was a consistant team effort across the board
When Dean was 2nd all-star in Bendigo he only won 8 out of 18 games (this is a rarity by his usual standards as he does hold the highest win/loss ratio)
It is not a matter of what score you bowl but first thought ought to be can you help your team win the overall 2 points and secondly can you win your individual game. Looking back over the whole tournament how many if any overalls did the team lose by say 30 pins and less. If this means you need to become a more efficient spare shooter then so be it. It is all about practice, practice and more practice you have some very good and experienced people at your centre that I am sure that they would only be to willing to help to achieve team success.
I am not talking about bowling on bone dry lanes where you have to put your shoulder out to keep it on the lane but I am sure that lanes could be set up for you with a lighter and/or shorter oil pattern for practice
As for gear I have not brought a brand new ball for a couple of years but have found the second hand section in totalbowling to be quite a cheap way of picking up extra gear - Although not many 8lb balls for sale

 

[Gatsby]

To follow on from the comment regarding bowlers 5,6,7. Sunraysia men had three bowlers in the all stars to Shepparton's 1.

As far as averages go Sunraysias next highest average was 31st (and two bowlers in the bottom five averages - that won't win you many points) whereas Shepparton bowlers filled 6th, 7th, 8th and 10th highest average (therefore five bowlers in the top 10 - that means lots of points and lots of pinfalls).

I bet i know which group went away happier. TEAMS win country cup and not individuals.

 

[Gatsby]

I agree 100% with you Travvy,

Better change that pic to Woza and Travvy

 

[Straight_kut]

I agree 100% with you Travvy,
When we won in 2004 we had no-one in the allstars it was a consistant team effort across the board
When Dean was 2nd all-star in Bendigo he only won 8 out of 18 games (this is a rarity by his usual standards as he does hold the highest win/loss ratio)
It is not a matter of what score you bowl but first thought ought to be can you help your team win the overall 2 points and secondly can you win your individual game. Looking back over the whole tournament how many if any overalls did the team lose by say 30 pins and less. If this means you need to become a more efficient spare shooter then so be it. It is all about practice, practice and more practice you have some very good and experienced people at your centre that I am sure that they would only be to willing to help to achieve team success.
I am not talking about bowling on bone dry lanes where you have to put your shoulder out to keep it on the lane but I am sure that lanes could be set up for you with a lighter and/or shorter oil pattern for practice
As for gear I have not brought a brand new ball for a couple of years but have found the second hand section in totalbowling to be quite a cheap way of picking up extra gear - Although not many 8lb balls for sale

We had that in horsham for emerson trials.. was sore for weeks :surrender:

Dean performs no matter what condition when it comes to tournaments.
His all star record proves that, but as he will tell you, they really mean nothing with out the CC trophy.
And you guys winning with out one all star proves that.


In regards to equipment I just bought 3 new balls in the last few months..
Its not that i cant buy new balls, but given the once a year usage is the issue for me. If i was a regular tournament bowler then I would probably be able to justify having 7-8 balls.
I gave away 2 bowling balls just before CC to bowlers in our centre who bowled in CC (more 8lb bowlers ) when i purchased my new gear. I am now back to 4 balls of which 3 i use regularly

But enough about my equipment choices.

Experience is something you just cant teach or buy. And thats what matters most imho.

 

[L G]

I vote for #2. If it ever comes to bowling on Friday, we wont have a ladies team. Unless other ass. are able to shout accomodation, wages and food for myself and at least 2 daughters, maybe 3 Ohh and a husband

All this crap about bowling conditions.......... who gives a **** . We go to bowl every year, most of us know what conditions we are going to get, or close to. Im sure everyone knows what they will most likely be like next year, but im sure we will all turn up. Good or Bad, everyone has to bowl on them.

It gets annoying when bowlers try to justify bowling good or bad by, needing alternative equipment, needing more sleep, needed more atmosfere, needing more time to catch up with friends...... blah blah blah blah
Country Cup is great the way it is. For those that think the format needs changing so much......................Start another Tournament

If our bowlers made more effort in fundraising............ We too could have a bus, that takes out the worry of driving home next year. This year was bad enough, not getting home untill 5.45am.

Lisa

 

[bowlrig]

To follow on from the comment regarding bowlers 5,6,7. Sunraysia men had three bowlers in the all stars to Shepparton's 1.
As far as averages go Sunraysias next highest average was 31st (and two bowlers in the bottom five averages - that won't win you many points) whereas Shepparton bowlers filled 6th, 7th, 8th and 10th highest average (therefore five bowlers in the top 10 - that means lots of points and lots of pinfalls).
I bet i know which group went away happier. TEAMS win country cup and not individuals.

Of those 3, only 1 was committed to the team. The other two were committed to the bottle and they were the downfall of our team this year.

It will NOT happen again.

Rob

 

[Deano]

Ok Rob i will get off the bottle.

 

[cbheat2]

having read the whole thread and seen everyones opinions I too would have to say option 2 with Dave Farkys amendments. But I do agree with the comments that bowling friday afternoon or night is just too much to ask of the centres who will have to travel to the other side of the state each year.

craig bramley

 

[ThEOnE]

Of those 3, only 1 was committed to the team. The other two were committed to the bottle and they were the downfall of our team this year.
It will NOT happen again.
Rob

OUCH, trouble at team Sunraysia. I dont think the bottle is the downfall, doesnt seem to effect 'some' people If it came to bowling Friday night Lis you and the girls are welcome to stay with me!!!!
That should get the tounges wagging!!!!!!!!!!
But on the whole I will bowl C/C on any conditions at any time at what ever cost as when you win you just want to WIN AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN!!!

 

[Gatsby]

This thread is called "How can we HELP country cup" not "lets change it to something unrecognizable". Country cup is sensational and always has been. However, it has become a very long weekend - earlier starts and later finishes than ever before.

The intention of this thread was to have a chat about the MINOR things we don't like and see if anyone can come up with something better. Friday was suggested but disadvantages a lot of teams... so lets move on. 8 games straight has also been suggested and this has so far been the most popular idea - with various suggestions to format --- eg oil or no oil half way... all 8 bowled by male and then 8 bowled by female ... or 4 and 4 without oiling etc.

Not sure whether the bowlers will have much say with this because i think oiling pattern and frequency of oiling is determined by the host association (correct me if i am wrong). I can't see anywhere in the rules where it says oil after 4 games or 8 games etc,,,