8pins start for women, did it work?

[GeorgeF]

I certainly think so with 4 women making the top 15 at the Kegel Open last weekend. All the women bowled great and I really think this is a great way for our bowling tournaments to move forward in the future. I know the women were over the moon with competing for more prizemoney, certainly a win win if you ask me

Thoughts?

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day George,

I have mentioned it before, I am a fringe bowler and likely to be a bowler effected by an 8 pin start. But for me I don't mind, gives more bowlers a chance to compete and boost the girls ranks giving them something to fight for. Their effort is just as big as every body else, they practice as hard as anyone else and deserve a fair go if there are no events for them to compete in.

For me, pick up my spare game and there is the 8 pins back, so I have something to work harder on also, win win in my eyes.

Good to see you back George.

 

[Michael Little]

A few or I should say more than a few made comment over the weekend about being able to actually play for some decent prizemoney, I think that will be a big lure and hopefully this helps boost prize funds and tournament entries. Have to see what happens at the next one.

The only possible draw back aside from some 'fringe' players (as Johns post) missing the cut, would be the matchplay, Mary has always run her tournaments with a premium on winning matches hence 40 pins for a win and 20 pins for second. Taking nothing away from Bee, she had a fabulous run moving from 15th to 3rd, winning each of her matchplay games taking the maximum each round, but in a combined tournament maybe the win bonuses could be lowered and they probably are for other tournaments anyway.

 

[granto]

Good thread!
Feed back was no increase in female entries from last year's Kegel Open and if you have a look at the scores...1 female made the cut using the 8 pin handicap, all others made it scratch I believe.
If it gets 1 more female entry to a tournament...it has served it's purpose!
Great for bowling's future!

 

[Lexi Nicoll]

Hey George,

I personally think it was something that was needed to be done. The rest of the world does it so why dont we.
Grant I also think it will take a year or two to notice any results to whether it increases numbers or not.
But it will also make the women become better bowlers if they are going to compete against the guys. It will definitely help wih Aussie teams going away

 

[Top Gun]

Hey George,

I personally think it was something that was needed to be done. The rest of the world does it so why dont we.
Grant I also think it will take a year or two to notice any results to whether it increases numbers or not.
But it will also make the women become better bowlers if they are going to compete against the guys. It will definitely help wih Aussie teams going away

Correct me if im wrong But i thought that bowling was the only sport that male or female have equal Start !!!

 

[becka_girl]

I definitely think the numbers will increase eventually. I think once other females see that a few are giving it a crack, it will encourage them too as well.
Also maybe we need to look at spacing the events out a bit more because I know the reason I didnt bowl it was because Vic150 is in the same month and it was just going cost way too
much.

A step in the right direction I think for Australian bowling because it will only make everyone stronger

 

[becka_girl]

Correct me if im wrong But i thought that bowling was the only sport that male or female have equal Start !!!

I believe it is now an equal start before it wasnt because a lot of the females couldnt compete with the high scores that the men chuck at tournaments because the pattern sometimes doesnt suit our shots.

 

[Lexi Nicoll]

Most tournaments in other countries that have the men and women combined give the ladies 8 pins a game. It is one reason why they decided to do it,

 

[Mistagear]

Can someone please explain specifically how in bowling, are females disadvantaged over males ?
Perhaps every bowler should be weighed and measured prior to competing, those who are below some pre-determined level then given some additional pins per game to "compensate"
Look, I'm in favour of attracting more bowlers in tournaments, but to give one group preference over another group opens up a whole new can of worms.
The world in general is heading towards equality between sex, race and sexual persuasion.....except for bowling, apparently.
When you mount an argument that some/many sports require separate competition for males and females, bowling should be last on the list in my opinion.
If it's correct that females need extra pins, fair enough, however if I were a female bowler I would be dirty that I was seen as inferior in ability purely because I was female.
I'm about half the size of some other male bowlers and not as big and strong as some female bowlers, but there is no way I feel disadvantaged, because bowling is about skill, not strength

 

[bluey]

Can someone please explain specifically how in bowling, are females disadvantaged over males ?
Perhaps every bowler should be weighed and measured prior to competing, those who are below some pre-determined level then given some additional pins per game to "compensate"
Look, I'm in favour of attracting more bowlers in tournaments, but to give one group preference over another group opens up a whole new can of worms.
The world in general is heading towards equality between sex, race and sexual persuasion.....except for bowling, apparently.
When you mount an argument that some/many sports require separate competition for males and females, bowling should be last on the list in my opinion.
If it's correct that females need extra pins, fair enough, however if I were a female bowler I would be dirty that I was seen as inferior in ability purely because I was female.
I'm about half the size of some other male bowlers and not as big and strong as some female bowlers, but there is no way I feel disadvantaged, because bowling is about skill, not strength

Apparently having a penis makes you bowl better, didn't you know that?

 

[becka_girl]

I believe because of the patterns laid these days, it is a lot easier for the men to score. Name a tournament where most of the woman have out averaged the men, you wouldnt find many at all.

Yes we do have a lot of men who average below a 190 but if you also give them eight pins then you may as well give it to everyone. Nothing against the guys that struggle, but i believe if they trained as much as the guys who are currently at the top then they too could one day be up there with the best.

 

[Docta]

On this ol' chestnut again. I for one am over this topic. The girls have received their unfair advantage and will continue to receive said advantage whilst people who know nothing about marketing continue to drive our sport into oblivion. I for one will not bowl in any tournament that gives this advantage, i also encourage other bowlers who think this is a S*%T idea to do the same. The reason given for this advantage is because the girls can't " power or crank" the ball as much as guys, or are bowling on patterns that do not suit their style....what a load of BS. Not all males have a lot of "hand", I don't see them getting 8 pins. But wait, what about our poor cousins on the left. Why not give them 8 pins as they don't have the same traffic thus breaking the lane down slower lol. Then you have the double whammy " A FEMALE LEFTY" well, we be better give her 16pins. I can go on and on...

Just a quick note Becka_girl, those "190 ave male bowlers" that you think should just "train more" make the majority of the entries, thus the prize fund. If somebody doesn't start looking out for the interest of these bowlers they will stop showing their support.

 

[becka_girl]

I wasnt bagging those bowlers at all. I was just saying a little hard work can go a long way, that is all i meant. If anyone puts there mind to it they can easily smash the patterns and be up there on the winners board. Training hsrd equals results, you dont see people who dont train winning tournaments. For example if belmo or sam or mick didnt train as much as they did, they would be nowhere near where they are today.

Australia were one of the only countries who didnt use the eight pin system and struggled to get entries into tournaments. Europe, america and asia have been doing it for years and get hundreds of bowlers for each tournament, so why wouldnt we use this system that seems to be working for everyone else with no complaints from the men?

If you get beaten by a female big deal! Maybe we need to use the system that is used at the victorian sports series, which is when a female wins one of the tournaments, their handicap gets dropped for 12 months?

 

[doublemm]

Just one comment to make lay the pattern corrctly and let us play .No need to modify any pattern the cream will always rise to the top

 

[Mistagear]

I believe because of the patterns laid these days, it is a lot easier for the men to score. Name a tournament where most of the woman have out averaged the men, you wouldnt find many at all.

Do females find it harder to be accurate or perhaps less able to control speed ? Do they lack ability to read patterns and adjust accordingly ? I wonder, when a female two hander turns up, does she receive the head start on the males as well?

Yes we do have a lot of men who average below a 190 but if you also give them eight pins then you may as well give it to everyone. Nothing against the guys that struggle, but i believe if they trained as much as the guys who are currently at the top then they too could one day be up there with the best.

Perhaps the females who average below 190 should do as you suggest, "train more", then they would not need to be given the extra free pins , "then they too could be up there with the best"

 

[Docta]

Well becka_girl by your logic, women should also just train more to get better instead of the 8 pin advantage. I was also just wondering if you spoke to all the men around the world that this stupid rule affects because you seem to be speaking on their behalf by stating that there are no complaints. Im not worried about being beaten by females, What pissed me off is giving any person an advantage when it is purely based on their sexuality and not on their bowling ability. I don't see why the men have to suffer because the females don't get off their **** and start supporting their own divisions.

 

[becka_girl]

To gain speed i believe some do yes and some patterns need you to play real deep which a lot of woman cant do.
To be completely honest i really wouldnt mind if i didnt get the eight pins, i would still bowl the tournaments but for others they like to get the eight pins.

 

[becka_girl]

Well becka_girl by your logic, women should also just train more to get better instead of the 8 pin advantage. I was also just wondering if you spoke to all the men around the world that this stupid rule affects because you seem to be speaking on their behalf by stating that there are no complaints. Im not worried about being beaten by females, What pissed me off is giving any person an advantage when it is purely based on their sexuality and not on their bowling ability. I don't see why the men have to suffer because the females don't get off their **** and start supporting their own divisions.

Yes woman do need to get off there ass and train to, i didnt mean just the men. And i agree we need to support our own division, i have always said this. I try and encourage a lot of the woman to bowl the tournaments but most of them just say they dont want to waste their money

No i havent spoken to all the men of the world but clearly there isnt a problem because this format has been running for years.

 

[bluey]

I wasnt bagging those bowlers at all. I was just saying a little hard work can go a long way, that is all i meant. If anyone puts there mind to it they can easily smash the patterns and be up there on the winners board.

Bullshit Bec, there are plenty of 190 ave bowlers that will never be on the top step of a podium no matter how hard they train.

Training hsrd equals results, you dont see people who dont train winning tournaments.

Correct, but some people will never win.
For example if Belmo or Sam or Mick didnt train as much as they did, they would be nowhere near where they are today.

It is disrespectful to use small leters at the beginning of someones name.

Australia were one of the only countries who didnt use the eight pin system and struggled to get entries into tournaments.

And will continue to struggle but time will show this.
Europe, america and asia have been doing it for years and get hundreds of bowlers for each tournament, so why wouldnt we use this system that seems to be working for everyone else with no complaints from the men?

I'm sure that no one overseas right now can hear me complain so why would we hear them?

If you get beaten by a female big deal!

This is THE biggest problem! Do you honestly think we give a shit about being beaten by a girl? You may find it hard to believe but people like Carlos and me are on your side, we know how good you are and respect that and that's why we think handicap for tournaments is rubbish. I've never stepped up to bowl against a woman and thought less of them for their gender, scores are what matter and you girls put plenty of them on the board that are higher than mine. The silent majority may wish to sit back and think that girls need handicap but I certainly don't, typical of this day and age where all I hear is "what about me, what can I have for nothing, what can I have because I'm a girl?" And don't get me started on fucking house patterns!

Maybe we need to use the system that is used at the victorian sports series, which is when a female wins one of the tournaments, their handicap gets dropped for 12 months?