Why are there no age junior state teams?

[desmondo]

Having been involved in many sports, I have noticed that most of them have a number of age state teams (13 and under, 15 and under etc). There are very few sports that have only one junior team.

Swimming has state junior age comps from as young as 8 or 9. The whole team goes away together and competes at the nationals as a team but also in their individual age competitions. They may have say 10 nine year olds, 10 ten year olds etc. The national competitions are packed with swimmers and the youngsters compete and learn from an early age.

Footy teams have 11 and under, 13 and under 15 and under etc. Normally the national carnivals are held separately for each age group but the kids are able to represent their state from an early age and compare themselves to others of the same age.

In bowling, we have one junior state team. A 12 year old can make it if they are good enough but they don't compete against their age group. This does seem a little off the track when compared to other sports.

Does anybody know why this has occurred?

Secondly and far more importantly, would anyone consider having the junior state teams system come in?

I think we could do it something like this:
1. We create age group state teams, say 12 and under, 14 and under, 16 and under and then open junior (for 18 and under).
2. Any child can try to qualify for their age group team PLUS the open junior team.
3. Nationals can still have the grading categories.
4. All junior state teams compete at the nationals (no separate competitions or dates).
This means that the best kids in each age group can compete against each other plus the best overall juniors in the country (be they 8 or 18) compete against each other as well via the open junior comp.
We would also still have kids able to bowl at nationals and be rewarded based on their performance under competition (the base of graded competitions).

This would get more kids representing their state from an early age. Generally, once people see a pathway in a sport that is accessable from an early age, they stay in that sport for a longer period.

Also, I imagine that we would get more kids to the nationals through this process.

What does everyone think?

Des

 

[jockey]

Des

As someone who umpired footy (AFL flavour) from junior grades through to seniors I agree that maybe there is something lacking in the current structure of our sport.

The unfortunate thing with your idea is that the lack of structure in our sport currently is due to two major factors.

1. The fact our sport is at the mercy of the proprietors the majority currently more focussed on quick revenue than long term sustainability.

2. The failure of our current national body to support the developing bowler. I base this on their decision to remove the Walter Daveer event as a graded state team from the National program. Also there is no graded National junior representative event at present.

Unfortunately the TBA is more interested in being dictated to by State and National Sports funding criteria than actually supporting the bowlers who are paying up the fees to allow them to survive.

I agree with Wayne Chester that their has to be some very fundamental changes in the way the National and State bodies operate if we are to firstly survive and then prosper as a sport.

Your suggestions for the juniors is a good start. IT does provide a reasonably viable solution to the most critical problem facing our sport today: bowler retention. If juniors have something to stride for within there own age groups then they may look to continue through the various age groups until adulthood wherefore they would in most cases choose to continue to bowl as an adult.

The success of footy (all codes) and cricket and a number of other sports using the age tiered system to develop their participants certainly suggests that it is worthwhile attempting to develop a similar system for ten pin bowling in this country.

 

[Shoey]

great idea Des and all for it, but to have a Junior Nationals with event structure as it currently is plus add state event for age group becomes logisitically hard when you consider each age group requires 16 lanes to be able to compete against each other. so if you have possibly 10's, 12's, 14's, 16's as well as the open event (run after these as you suggested) all of a sudden you need 64 lanes and we don't have centres that size so it will mean taking some to nearby centres or worse still cutting back on Championship squads and other events that are held at the junior nationals.

to relocate would then mean needing 2 centres who are willing to provide same game rates etc etc etc. which then brings us back to Jockey's first point i guess.

to tinker the current schedule cuts back on the available squad times for all of these juniors to bowl their all events and maintain their eligibility to play in the aged divisions (assuming of course eligibility to compete is still based on completing all events at the nationals).

i truly think its doable, its the how we do it that is difficult.

think of it 5 teams per state comprising at least 5 boys and 5 girls per age group, at least 50 bowlers per state for a minimum of 400 bowlers in the same place(s) at the same time. would truly be an awesome sight to see.

Shoey

 

[BrenH]

A lot of it comes down to not having the same number of people bowling as you have participating in the other sports you've mentioned. That and i believe that the current money going to the TBA from all of its various sources is simply not enough to allow for ambitious and wide sweeping plans to be implemented.

Coming from a baseball background as well (i have played since i was 8) I am also used to have multiple state teams at a junior level. When I was playing junior baseball my club had (and this is only a conservative estimate) more than 300 juniors players. I did play for a reasonably large club but there were a handfull of clubs around the metro area that were comparable in size. That being the case you probably had in excess of 1000 players that were eligible at any one time for each level of state competition.
The number of players wanting to try out for state teams was so great that for years i remember our club holding its own selection trials to choose which kids to send to state trials. This helped the VBA (victorians baseballs governing body) to keep the selection trials for state teams manageable.

As far as any sport is concerned i think thats an eviable position to be in. I just don't think that bowling in Australia is currently anywhere near that level.
With the current setup of the TBA and the current fee structure that is being charged to each bowler in sanction fees I just don't see how the TBA could possibly manage implement anything that would bring about major positive change.
I think the fact the each bowler pays the sports governing body less than $20 a year in sanction fees is a large part of the reason why the TBA finds in difficult to develop and implement new strategies for the sport.
In the last 3 baseball seasons i have played my fees have cost me in excess of $900. Approximately 2/3 of that money has gone to my club to pay for equipment etc. The other 1/3 goes to the governing body for them to use in the running of the sport.
It must also be noted that the $900 i have paid in fees covers only 6 months of year as i don't play baseball in winter.
Despite the fact that the fees are so high i have never minded paying them as i could always see what was being done with the money as state teams, coaching and development programs and training of umpires and officials was always heavily promoted and trainging courses regularly run.

Imagine if the TBA actually had the money to be able to implement bold initiatives and advertise them and their benefits to league bowlers Australia wide. The progress in the sport would be amazing.
To do so the money needs to come from somewhere and unless the sport is able to attract a major sponsor who is willing provide that money then an increase in sanction fees is the only realistic way i can see of achieveing this.
For as long as i can remember sanction fees for bowling have basically remained the same. There have been minor increases over the years and a lot of people i have bowled with have disagreed strongly with any sanction fee increases.
This to me has always seemed understandable as most bowlers can't see what is being down with this money and how their yearly contribution goes to helping the sport.
I'm sure that increased funds for the TBA and therefore the subsequent ability to create and promote new initiatives for the sport is something that bowlers are willing to pay for.
If people were able to see clearly what effect their sanction money was having on the sport at various levels they wouldn't mind paying extra money in sanction fees.

You wouldn't even need a major hike in fees to do so either.
Unless i am incorrect the TBA fees for this year are approximately $12.50 per bowler. If these fees are doubled that is still only $25 per year for sanction fees. To put it in perspective that sort of fee structure costs the bowler less than 50 cents per week. That is hardly an exorbitant amount to be paying to the sports governing body.
An increase along those lines and the subsequent doubling of the TBA's income would provide a major boost for the sport and allow for some very positive programs to be put in place.

All i'm really trying to say here is that what i've outlined above is part of what i believe is currently needed to help bowling in Australia progress to a level where we are able to have state teams based on age and all the necessary development programs to allow kids to reach that level of competition.
It will definitely take a major effort from the TBA, state associations, bowling propreitors, individual bowling centres and individual bowlers to see truly positive changes for the sport but that is something that i believe isn't out of our grasp.

My two cents.
Brendan

 

[scooter]

Pardon my ignorance, because Ive only skimmed over this while at work, but a couple of poitns regarding the main issue here .....

- Due to a lack of numbers and the cost of our sport, some states are lucky to put together a 7 person team go away and compete under the current national structure (presidents shield). So im not sure making further age restrictions/categories is the answer.

- Also its not just the cost of the sport itself, but in a lot of other sports if you make representative teams their is financial assistance available from the organisations that run local competitions to assist with travel costs and accomodation etc etc .... this goes back to the lack of numbers and cost issue.

- And lastly, and more importantly I think, tenpin is unique in the fact that it is you against the pins, what your opponent does is almost irrelevant. The nationals in their current structure offer everyone, junior or adult the opportunity to compete against bowlers of similar ability regardless of age (eg: Open, Classic, A Grade, B Grade etc etc)

So Im not sure we need an age based competition? But any ideas that may possibly bring more people into the sport has to be a good thing. So ideas such as the above should be looked at to see if they may indeed help to increase participation.

 

[jason_doust]

It was so much easier when there was a Presidents Shield and a Rachuig competition...

 

[androooo]

It was so much easier when there was a Presidents Shield and a Rachuig competition...

Completely agree.

Under age, and OPEN.

 

[Shoey]

It was so much easier when there was a Presidents Shield and a Rachuig competition...

arrggghhhh, but Jason back then the +50's were happy to play against young whipper snappers like yourself in tournaments and what was then the ATBC and now the TBA didn't cater too much for age groups as a whole be they 12 y.o. or 55 y.o.. not to mention the fact that back then junior numbers were extremely high with most centres having saturday morning Junior leagues and juniors playing a junior tournament of some kind in the afternoon. I know growing up in Blacktown we had 2 junior leagues which Roy & Fay Eslick use to look after and all lanes were full for 3 hours. after these finished the best of played a singles league and then jumped into cars to go play a tournament.
Nowadays the plus 50's don't like it too much and have there own competitions and seldom mix with the "youngsters". the "volunteers" (or Junior Guardians as they were called) like Roy and Fay are few and far between and of course to do so these days you need to be police checked and your actions are scrutinised intensively (you need a blue card in QLD if your going to Junior nationals in April as a coach of anyone else's other than your own kids - $40 gone) and centres don't want kids taking up all lanes for 3 hours on a saturday morning.

my how times have changed.

an age based comp would be great for developing a player base and growing numbers back to what they were when you and i played juniors by keeping kids in the sport longer. the sheer volume of bowlers would make holding and hosting such an event a logistical nightmare.

Shoey