Which of our top bowlers are attending the Mens World's Camp in Sydney?
- Thread starter GeorgeF
- Start date
tonx
New Member
Just so I can better understand the criteria, Andrew Frawley starts with 70 points because of his current ABF ranking, and there are only a maximum total of 80 other points up for grabs?
Does this mean as long as he attends, he doesn't need to complete any of the other criteria to make the team, given scoring a full 10 on every other aspect would be very difficult to do?
He should (IMHO) definately be in the team anyway, but is the 70 points because of the asian rankings fair to any other bowlers nominating, given how difficult it is to gain just 10 points in the other qualifying "tests" This puts Walshy, Jarrod, Mac, Matt, Glen well behind Andrew and Belmo, and if one of them has a bad day on either the short or the long, might make it tough to make up ground.
Will they get 10 bowlers?
Does this mean as long as he attends, he doesn't need to complete any of the other criteria to make the team, given scoring a full 10 on every other aspect would be very difficult to do?
He should (IMHO) definately be in the team anyway, but is the 70 points because of the asian rankings fair to any other bowlers nominating, given how difficult it is to gain just 10 points in the other qualifying "tests" This puts Walshy, Jarrod, Mac, Matt, Glen well behind Andrew and Belmo, and if one of them has a bad day on either the short or the long, might make it tough to make up ground.
Will they get 10 bowlers?
I THINK THERE ALL HIGH…
If they’re making both Walshy and Jarrod attend this camp they are high and getting some good gear at that…
Walshy should be one of the first two selected in this team and Jarrod third for his results overseas with the Team last year and on his current form…As for Walsh well that speaks for its self…
Walshy has never picked or chosen when he represented Australia he has been there and forked out of his own pocket, year in year out and to make him attend a camp like this is an insult in its self…
Go back to straight selection…Its not to difficult to select the top 6 Men in Australia at the moment…
If they’re making both Walshy and Jarrod attend this camp they are high and getting some good gear at that…
Walshy should be one of the first two selected in this team and Jarrod third for his results overseas with the Team last year and on his current form…As for Walsh well that speaks for its self…
Walshy has never picked or chosen when he represented Australia he has been there and forked out of his own pocket, year in year out and to make him attend a camp like this is an insult in its self…
Go back to straight selection…Its not to difficult to select the top 6 Men in Australia at the moment…
Tonx
Think it is based on 2007, so my understanding is Belmo gets 100 (automatically in team) and Frawls was not in top 10 after 2007 therefore he doesnt get any points from that section of criteria.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Athletes must be prepared and able to attend the Tenpin Bowling Australia Limited Selection Camp which will be held on Sunday the 6th of July in Lidcombe NSW.
George..
Personally I wouldn't have any bowlers attend camp as I don't believe it's necessary in order to pick our best bowlers. BUT..and this is a sore point with me. As long as the criteria has been announced, it should apply to ALL bowlers who nominate for the World Championships. otherwise, why bother having rules at all.
BELMO
Member
Regarding some individual posts:
When will common sense prevail???
Regarding the criteria:
It has so many holes in it and is by far in my opinion a waste of time.
Remember that like George said, I am exempt, so all I will have to say on this matter is purely for the benefit of improving the criteria and not for personal reasons.
I am all for a criteria, I think its important for everyone to know how to make an Australian team (any team for that matter) but criteria's that are well thought out and well planned take months of research and time.
Something TBA did not have, so why create one at all???
I know the answer to that last question.
"SUBJECTIVE decisions". Gillian (TBA's CEO) does not want a team to be 'selected' because she feels that her 6 and my 6 and everyone else's top 6 would be different. Who is right? Thats her question.
Whilst on the surface that seems like a valid point but if you are a bowler or know anything about bowling, you will also know that unlike any other sport, bowling can not to tested over 1 day.
Here comes the irony:
TBA does not want a subjective take on picking a team, they want points, so it is clear who makes it and who doesnt, yet the criteria is riddled with subjective points. Coaches and selectors will give points on who they think can play parts of the lane or who can adjust axis tilt better........If you read the criteria, subjective points are every where..... so why not just PICK the team and use the camp as a training camp rather than a selection camp??
An example. If you refer to the criteria as a bowling format, this criteria is a 3 game crap shoot, with some bowlers having handicap. These kind of criteria's are only going to benefit the dark horses.
Now i have been in many teams with 'dark horses' and I know for a fact that they give 100% every time. I know that they try everything they can to help the team and i respect them for that, but many times i lay in bed at the end of a day at an FIQ event and wonder what would of happened if our best team possible was here?? Has it ever happened???
We need our best team this time around if we are going to have a chance against the teams that are going.
This is our biggest FIQ ever, every team has recognised the importance and are sending their best teams. USA, Finland, Sweden, Malaysia, Singapore and every other power house nation have been 'in camp' as a team for ages.
The Europeans are actually bowling a 5 nations event 2 weeks before the world champs on the dual patterns as practice and team Malaysia have up their training from 4 hours to 6 hours a day on the lanes!!!!!!!
Where are we???? Still havent picked a team, still havent practiced as a team, so how are we expected to beat Walter Ray on the short, Osku on the long and Sweden/Malaysia in the teams???
With a bunch of luck...its no secret.
I even offered to the TBA that because of the short time frame, if they were to select this team, I would personally ask all the coaches at the FIQ how their teams are picked. Put it all in writing and from there create a clear and 'almost perfect' criteria that can be used for the future teams (for the youth, ladies, seniors and juniors).
The reply was "there will be no SELECTION" end of story.
There are players who everyone will agree that on form are the best in the country, but due to this rushed criteria, these guys do not have any points and are behind the 8 ball to start with.
How can a criteria be used when those of lesser form and ability be placed higher than those who are plain and simple BETTER.
Here is another question i have asked. What happens if a player is sick the day of the camp.
Even though I am not there ill use my name as an example. (providing i dont have any points)
I wake up, crook and cant lift a ball. I call and say i cant play..... or Im driving and get in volved in a small accident but my car can no longer be driven......I call and explain I cant make it....or what happens if I fly in, my luggage I am told has been flown to Brisbane and will arrive late that night.....
Am i just pushed a side, told sorry?? All the years of hard work and results come down to 1 arfternoon of bowling, if you cant make it too bad??
SO MANY HOLES!
It gets me so angry!!!!!!!!
Ill finish this with my starting quote
WHEN WILL COMMON SENSE PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jason Belmonte
When will common sense prevail???
Regarding the criteria:
It has so many holes in it and is by far in my opinion a waste of time.
Remember that like George said, I am exempt, so all I will have to say on this matter is purely for the benefit of improving the criteria and not for personal reasons.
I am all for a criteria, I think its important for everyone to know how to make an Australian team (any team for that matter) but criteria's that are well thought out and well planned take months of research and time.
Something TBA did not have, so why create one at all???
I know the answer to that last question.
"SUBJECTIVE decisions". Gillian (TBA's CEO) does not want a team to be 'selected' because she feels that her 6 and my 6 and everyone else's top 6 would be different. Who is right? Thats her question.
Whilst on the surface that seems like a valid point but if you are a bowler or know anything about bowling, you will also know that unlike any other sport, bowling can not to tested over 1 day.
Here comes the irony:
TBA does not want a subjective take on picking a team, they want points, so it is clear who makes it and who doesnt, yet the criteria is riddled with subjective points. Coaches and selectors will give points on who they think can play parts of the lane or who can adjust axis tilt better........If you read the criteria, subjective points are every where..... so why not just PICK the team and use the camp as a training camp rather than a selection camp??
An example. If you refer to the criteria as a bowling format, this criteria is a 3 game crap shoot, with some bowlers having handicap. These kind of criteria's are only going to benefit the dark horses.
Now i have been in many teams with 'dark horses' and I know for a fact that they give 100% every time. I know that they try everything they can to help the team and i respect them for that, but many times i lay in bed at the end of a day at an FIQ event and wonder what would of happened if our best team possible was here?? Has it ever happened???
We need our best team this time around if we are going to have a chance against the teams that are going.
This is our biggest FIQ ever, every team has recognised the importance and are sending their best teams. USA, Finland, Sweden, Malaysia, Singapore and every other power house nation have been 'in camp' as a team for ages.
The Europeans are actually bowling a 5 nations event 2 weeks before the world champs on the dual patterns as practice and team Malaysia have up their training from 4 hours to 6 hours a day on the lanes!!!!!!!
Where are we???? Still havent picked a team, still havent practiced as a team, so how are we expected to beat Walter Ray on the short, Osku on the long and Sweden/Malaysia in the teams???
With a bunch of luck...its no secret.
I even offered to the TBA that because of the short time frame, if they were to select this team, I would personally ask all the coaches at the FIQ how their teams are picked. Put it all in writing and from there create a clear and 'almost perfect' criteria that can be used for the future teams (for the youth, ladies, seniors and juniors).
The reply was "there will be no SELECTION" end of story.
There are players who everyone will agree that on form are the best in the country, but due to this rushed criteria, these guys do not have any points and are behind the 8 ball to start with.
How can a criteria be used when those of lesser form and ability be placed higher than those who are plain and simple BETTER.
Here is another question i have asked. What happens if a player is sick the day of the camp.
Even though I am not there ill use my name as an example. (providing i dont have any points)
I wake up, crook and cant lift a ball. I call and say i cant play..... or Im driving and get in volved in a small accident but my car can no longer be driven......I call and explain I cant make it....or what happens if I fly in, my luggage I am told has been flown to Brisbane and will arrive late that night.....
Am i just pushed a side, told sorry?? All the years of hard work and results come down to 1 arfternoon of bowling, if you cant make it too bad??
SO MANY HOLES!
It gets me so angry!!!!!!!!
Ill finish this with my starting quote
WHEN WILL COMMON SENSE PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jason Belmonte
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Belmo is spot on!
There are scores of high average bowlers in this country, but only a few TOP BOWLERS. You, I and the presumably the selectors know WHICH BOWLERS should be on the team, so let's get on with the selection and have our guys train for the World Championships.
There are scores of high average bowlers in this country, but only a few TOP BOWLERS. You, I and the presumably the selectors know WHICH BOWLERS should be on the team, so let's get on with the selection and have our guys train for the World Championships.
well i hve emailed gillian for an exemption to enter as i did not compete in any of the ranked events listed. I wrote to her on Tuesday but have no recieved a reply.
I believe they need to select the best team posible, as belmo and a few others have said it isnt hard to pick the team.
This year is the most important year due to the teams who are bowling and the bowlers who are bowling.
The next few weeks will be interesting
I believe they need to select the best team posible, as belmo and a few others have said it isnt hard to pick the team.
This year is the most important year due to the teams who are bowling and the bowlers who are bowling.
The next few weeks will be interesting
As usual Belmo is right.
Why do something properly when you can do it 1/2 arsed. Its amazing how people keep saying things will change. Yet some things will never change.
The old saying "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" comes to mind.
Why do something properly when you can do it 1/2 arsed. Its amazing how people keep saying things will change. Yet some things will never change.
The old saying "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" comes to mind.
BELMO
Member
Chin,
Its not quite like that. The effort put into the criteria was 100%, it was just the time they had to put it together plus a few other things made sure the criteria was going to be below par......
Belmo
Belmo, common sense is dead and has been buried.
totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=24503
Obituary
Common Sense
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has
been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing
when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing
regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student; but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband;
churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know my Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm a Victim.
Not many attended his funeral because so few remembered him or realized he was gone. If you still remember him grieve for him. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=24503
Obituary
Common Sense
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has
been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing
when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing
regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student; but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband;
churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know my Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm a Victim.
Not many attended his funeral because so few remembered him or realized he was gone. If you still remember him grieve for him. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
As is so often the case, great post Jason.
My one dispute with your otherwise fine analysis is that it's not a question of common sense, as a question of bowling sense. It seems to me that the same decades of knowledge that great bowlers accumulate that often make great centre managers can also make them great administrators, providing they have the administrative credentials. It's why I was disappointed to see that Chris Batson didn't get the job.
I do my best to stay out of politics and don't know Gillian so I will not judge her. TBA have shown common sense in avoiding selection which is almost always subjective at some point. It's the nature of the beast. This format however shows an absence of bowling smarts for which Jason has mentioned ample points of evidence. I also note that Gillian is in an invidious position having come into the process so late. Sadly, I feel this team selection will be a learning opportunity for a lot of people.
I suggest that you (i.e. Jason) carry out your assessment of the selection criteria used internationally. My gut feel says that it will come in handy some day. It's a great opportunity to gather good information and would probably make a great workshop for teams to discuss in a forum while they were in the one place.
Good luck,
Jason
My one dispute with your otherwise fine analysis is that it's not a question of common sense, as a question of bowling sense. It seems to me that the same decades of knowledge that great bowlers accumulate that often make great centre managers can also make them great administrators, providing they have the administrative credentials. It's why I was disappointed to see that Chris Batson didn't get the job.
I do my best to stay out of politics and don't know Gillian so I will not judge her. TBA have shown common sense in avoiding selection which is almost always subjective at some point. It's the nature of the beast. This format however shows an absence of bowling smarts for which Jason has mentioned ample points of evidence. I also note that Gillian is in an invidious position having come into the process so late. Sadly, I feel this team selection will be a learning opportunity for a lot of people.
I suggest that you (i.e. Jason) carry out your assessment of the selection criteria used internationally. My gut feel says that it will come in handy some day. It's a great opportunity to gather good information and would probably make a great workshop for teams to discuss in a forum while they were in the one place.
Good luck,
Jason
FLOWER
Well-Known Member
Just a thought! If we are sending a TEAM overseas, why don't the bowlers need to bowl in the premier TEAM event in Oz - Rachuig - as part of the criteria also. Oh, I forgot - $$$$$$$
Swimming - Australian team trials - fall off block, get disqualified - OUT of that event for the Australian Team - one chance only after a million kms. of training .......
Flower
Swimming - Australian team trials - fall off block, get disqualified - OUT of that event for the Australian Team - one chance only after a million kms. of training .......
Flower
Mary,
Are you saying top bowlers don't bowl rachuig coz they are only interested in $$$???? If so i would have to disagree...many Aust reps have shown they do not only play for financial gain given they have paid to represent Oz on many occassions with absoluley no chance of financial gain.
I do not bowl Rachuig and will explain why:
*If i make Rachuig team = 7 days annual leave , Approx cost $2,000.
*Make Oz Team same year = 10 days annual leave. In excessive of $2,500
This total 17 days out of 20 days a year Leave, plus at least $4,500.
It would be hard to expect ppl to outlay this kind of money and time off work.
Just my opinion.
Geez being a Motor Mechanic sucks…I wish I was on that sort of coin…Where do I get a job like that…
Mary, have you seen some of the Teams lately...
Mary, have you seen some of the Teams lately...
