What would happen...

[Werribee]

At the last ANZAC Day Marathon we implemented a "checking procedure" before going into the positional round.

This meant that all teams (33 from memory x 3 per team) had a 15 minute window to check their scores against ours and then sign off on verfying that they were correct. Over the 24 hour marathon we had 3 staff changes and (at that point- 55 games bowled per team) and with scores being hand written and handed in and a very small window of error in inputting etc... we felt that it would give us security and perhaps put more of an emphasis on bowlers being responsible for their scores before announcements were made. (The TD worked a straight 36 hours!)

As a TD you really do try to ensure that everything is right, but sometimes things do happen. It's a shame when it does, and hugely embarressing. The most important thing when a mistake is made is to a) admit you are human (which Brett has done), b) rectify the situation to the best of your ability (which Brett has done), c) and put a procedure in place which will prevent it happening again )I'm sure is being done.

Our checking procedure may be a safe guard for tournaments in the future.
Edi

 

[CHIN]

Tournament Directors always seem to take the blame for most things that happen in Tournaments. From:- Why wasnt a lane condition put down that suited everybody to incorrect scores being entered by people doing the scores. (even though at times its the bowler that has signed the score sheet with the incorrect score). ALL THE FAULT OF THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR.
As has been mentioned before, people are human, mistakes happen.
To threaten someones wife over the matter is just plain gutless.


Ian said he doesnt normally check the Excel spreadsheet. I gather the problem arose from the scores not being sorted properly after being entered. Why hasnt somebody got a decent scoring program for running these Major Tournaments which would eliminate this problem instead of relying on excel for scoring where you have to rely on somebody sorting & updating after any scores are put in. Youre asking for trouble.

 

[JWhitty]

Why hasnt somebody got a decent scoring program for running these Major Tournaments which would eliminate this problem instead of relying on excel for scoring where you have to rely on somebody sorting & updating after any scores are put in. Youre asking for trouble.

Who's paying for it? Software development is expensive, some of our clients pay $1500 a day for our SD's...

If you want something simple, there's maybe a week at a minumum, 5x1500 = $7500

Of course it is cheaper to engage a small organisation to do it and honestly I have no idea what that'd cost, but they would almost certainly need $100 per hour to ensure their costs are covered - or you've got yourself a good cheap developer

 

[jhk67]

I have made an excel spreadsheet which I can put in rugby league scores and it then sorts the teams in order by points and then goal difference. There is no reason why I cannot convert this for tenpin bowling. The qualifying would be easy, the matchplay would be a bit more challenging but I can give it a crack.

 

[jhk67]

Ok here are the 1st 2 stages from the Mens SPC which was on recently. I cant do the matchplay cause I couldnt get detailed results but anyways Each sheet is pretty self explanitory, Alpha stage 1 and 2 are the scores sorted by player name and sorted stage 1 and 2 are scores sorted by total pinfall.

 

[JWhitty]

Ok here are the 1st 2 stages from the Mens SPC which was on recently. I cant do the matchplay cause I couldnt get detailed results but anyways Each sheet is pretty self explanitory, Alpha stage 1 and 2 are the scores sorted by player name and sorted stage 1 and 2 are scores sorted by total pinfall.

No disrespect intended, but all you've done or are doing is recreating the same system that has unforunately failed in this instance.

Excel is not an ideal solution to the scoring problem, although it is generally effective most of the time. Assuming people sort correctly before entering scores, then sort correctly afterward, or correctly program the macros. It's all very prone to error.

Ideally, someone could develop a proper application which prompted the user in a consistent manner, stored the information properly, and then output the data effectively.

 

[jhk67]

you need a system which intergrates seamlessly with the centres scoring system. Im sure it can be done.

 

[CHIN]

Who's paying for it? Software development is expensive, some of our clients pay $1500 a day for our SD's...
If you want something simple, there's maybe a week at a minumum, 5x1500 = $7500
Of course it is cheaper to engage a small organisation to do it and honestly I have no idea what that'd cost, but they would almost certainly need $100 per hour to ensure their costs are covered - or you've got yourself a good cheap developer

It's a case of somebody put up or shut up then isnt it.

If nobody wants to get off there arse and make sure what happened with the SPC scores doesnt happen again, people need to stop whinning about it when there a human error.

We've been using/still using an old ATBA scoring program from the 1980's. Certainly dont need to rely on excel to do the scores for tournaments.

 

[JWhitty]

It's a case of somebody put up or shut up then isnt it.
If nobody wants to get off there arse and make sure what happened with the SPC scores doesnt happen again, people need to stop whinning about it when there a human error.

Couldn't agree more, thus the birth of fresh championship software this year... Hopefully...

We've been using/still using an old ATBA scoring program from the 1980's. Certainly dont need to rely on excel to do the scores for tournaments.

Out of interest, what program is that?

 

[Pie]

Hey guys,
On the scoring system program... I remember going to tournaments in Victoria many moons ago and Ian Nicholls was always like the scoring dude. I know he has a program and he comes here and uses it for Arafura too, perhaps it may a possibility?
..just a thought...
Enjoy the day!
Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. ~Goethe

 

[Jase]

Graham Williams used – Excel Score sheets written for the event
Peter Coburn used – Excel Score sheets written for the event
I use – Excel Score sheets written for the event

With minimal errors that are double checked on the day against the bowls scores on the computer…Yes you can still have human error…

The main problem I see here is that at this event bits and pieces of a score sheet was used to publish these scores, nothing flowed…It’s not the Excel spread sheet that is the issue here or the fact that it’s an excel program was used…If you write one for an event with the correct formulas, then you have less chances of this happening…When you use bits and pieces of spread sheets like in this case then you are more of a chance of mistakes happening or formulas not flowing…

I used a purpose written spread sheet for the scores to be published on the site and that is how I managed to find the issue…
Excel isn’t the issue at all…

 

[CHIN]

Graham Williams used – Excel Score sheets written for the event
Peter Coburn used – Excel Score sheets written for the event
I use – Excel Score sheets written for the event
With minimal errors that are double checked on the day against the bowls scores on the computer…Yes you can still have human error…
The main problem I see here is that at this event bits and pieces of a score sheet was used to publish these scores, nothing flowed…It’s not the Excel spread sheet that is the issue here or the fact that it’s an excel program was used…If you write one for an event with the correct formulas, then you have less chances of this happening…When you use bits and pieces of spread sheets like in this case then you are more of a chance of mistakes happening or formulas not flowing…
I used a purpose written spread sheet for the scores to be published on the site and that is how I managed to find the issue…
Excel isn’t the issue at all…

I agree Jase,

if everything is done correctly and you have people who know what there doing there is absolutely nothing wrong with Excel. But as you said, if the problem occured from using "bits & pieces of spread sheets" to post scores, surely it would be better having a decent scoring program which would eliminate the possibility of these sort of problems occuring again.