What would happen...
- Thread starter Jase
- Start date
I think that something really needs to happen here.... this is not good, especially for the "biggest" tournament in Australia. Thankfully someone is "on the ball"..... Thanks Jase.
A similar thing happened at Perth Cup 2 years ago - where they got 2 scores mixed up and because it wasn't noticed straight away the bowlers weren't able to change the scores and people lost out on money. How can you know if the wrong scores have gone in when you don't get updated scores while you are bowling!!
The scores need to be cross checked ... you can't have a bowler who bowls a 200+ game and then finds out 3 games later that their score was put in 100 pins less.. it happens too much and it can change the way a bowler looks at a tournament.
No matter what way you prefer to do the scores, whether you just do them from print outs or you get bowlers to write down their own scores - its not that hard to get them updated after every game.
It's pretty obvious that just one person can't run a tournament alone.
A similar thing happened at Perth Cup 2 years ago - where they got 2 scores mixed up and because it wasn't noticed straight away the bowlers weren't able to change the scores and people lost out on money. How can you know if the wrong scores have gone in when you don't get updated scores while you are bowling!!
The scores need to be cross checked ... you can't have a bowler who bowls a 200+ game and then finds out 3 games later that their score was put in 100 pins less.. it happens too much and it can change the way a bowler looks at a tournament.
No matter what way you prefer to do the scores, whether you just do them from print outs or you get bowlers to write down their own scores - its not that hard to get them updated after every game.
It's pretty obvious that just one person can't run a tournament alone.
Whilst I take full responsibility for the error, I like everyone, else am only human.
The error occurred due to a sorting formula which changed the bowlers carry over pinfall.
Unfortunately in the cross checking of the match-play scores and bonus pins, the error in the carry over pinfall was not identified.
Fortunately the error, whilst still very serious and embarrassing, did not change the places of the top four places.
Jason mentions he found the mistake at game four of the event, and has commented that he approached the staff at the control but was (in his words) ignored. As he has also further explained, at no time approached me personally to advise me of the error.
Whilst I place no blame on Jason any other person, and as mentioned previously, I take full responsibility, had this error been brought to my direct attention when it was first suspected or noticed, then perhaps this whole scenario would not have occurred.
Due to recent events, including a very personal attack against my wife by another forum member via a PM, simply because I held the National TD position, I handed in my resignation as the National Tournament Director for AMF on Sunday morning.
I’m sure just reading this last sentence has made some of you jump for joy.
I can handle attacks against myself but when people take it upon themselves to attack my family then this takes it to another level.
I had hoped to end my term in this role on a quiet note and with the completion of another successful tournament. Unfortunately this was not to happen.
For those of you have supported me over the past 18 months, I thank you. For those of you whom may not have liked or agreed with the decisions or actions I took whilst in the role, then you, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinions.
I wish my successor all the best and hope Tournament bowling can one day return to the glory days where the “FULL HOUSE” sign was posted.
Regards
Brett Smith
(Former) AMF National TD
The error occurred due to a sorting formula which changed the bowlers carry over pinfall.
Unfortunately in the cross checking of the match-play scores and bonus pins, the error in the carry over pinfall was not identified.
Fortunately the error, whilst still very serious and embarrassing, did not change the places of the top four places.
Jason mentions he found the mistake at game four of the event, and has commented that he approached the staff at the control but was (in his words) ignored. As he has also further explained, at no time approached me personally to advise me of the error.
Whilst I place no blame on Jason any other person, and as mentioned previously, I take full responsibility, had this error been brought to my direct attention when it was first suspected or noticed, then perhaps this whole scenario would not have occurred.
Due to recent events, including a very personal attack against my wife by another forum member via a PM, simply because I held the National TD position, I handed in my resignation as the National Tournament Director for AMF on Sunday morning.
I’m sure just reading this last sentence has made some of you jump for joy.
I can handle attacks against myself but when people take it upon themselves to attack my family then this takes it to another level.
I had hoped to end my term in this role on a quiet note and with the completion of another successful tournament. Unfortunately this was not to happen.
For those of you have supported me over the past 18 months, I thank you. For those of you whom may not have liked or agreed with the decisions or actions I took whilst in the role, then you, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinions.
I wish my successor all the best and hope Tournament bowling can one day return to the glory days where the “FULL HOUSE” sign was posted.
Regards
Brett Smith
(Former) AMF National TD
GeoffS
Warped Total Bowler
Just a suggestion.. Couldn't the scorer's get a exported file out of the computer scoring system?
Say for instance Jase and Kellie use microsoft excel (I presume others use the same) for the scoring on the Totalbowling Touring Circuit. So if they could get a ".CSV" file exported out of the computer scoring system they should be able write formula's in excel to retrieve the relevant bowler data thus elevating the mix up in the scores.
This would certainly cut out the mistakes and cut down on time spent updating the score sheets.
Say for instance Jase and Kellie use microsoft excel (I presume others use the same) for the scoring on the Totalbowling Touring Circuit. So if they could get a ".CSV" file exported out of the computer scoring system they should be able write formula's in excel to retrieve the relevant bowler data thus elevating the mix up in the scores.
This would certainly cut out the mistakes and cut down on time spent updating the score sheets.
Thats... disgusting...
I hope you've referred that PM to Jase for action, that kind of activity only hurts the sport (particularly by way of dissuading anybody who's read this from volunteering their time)
We all make mistakes, the error's been corrected and the fault made good... Of how many games, how many bowlers, how many cuts and how many qualifying tournaments - a simple error with adequate resolution.
For shame, whoever wrote the PM.
Gutter rat
Member
I think the job of tournament director would be a thankless task. Because you cant keep everyone happy all the time. And personality conflics will occur. But abusive pms sent to anyone is a new low.
speedwaystar
No BrakesNo GearsNo Fear
That Person should be named and shamed and banned for a period from tournaments,attacking a volunteer or their family is outright disgusting
NAME AND SHAME I SAY !!
NAME AND SHAME I SAY !!
Ian Nicholls
Member
At the TBA nationals (eg Rachuig, Masters etc.) and other events I help with the scoring, I download the scores from the bowls computer (when their system allows) and my programs converts them into files for the Web and uploads them.
Until two years ago I also did this for the Super 6 for the old AMF.
Until two years ago I also did this for the Super 6 for the old AMF.
I think Brett did a pretty good job in trying to run tournaments in Australia.It is not an easy job to do. I remember helping Steve Mackie run the Sydney Cup, boy what an eye opener. People changing squads, dealing with sponsors,making sure the lanes are right,and everything else in running a tournament, plus putting up with whingers who had a bad day.All the best Brett to you and your family in what ever direction your life takes you.Keep in touch mate.
Lovey
Lovey
Nebster
Total-ly over it
Does the Northern New South Walse President Sheild roll off's count??? My brother and I had our scores swapped round so he had my names next to his name and vice versa. Made him look a bit better then he was.
R
robertkennedy
If someone noticed the error during the tournament then why wasn't more of an effort made to have it resolved???
Surely the person who noticed the error should have made every effort possible to notify staff and not given up after being told that the tournament director was too busy.
Surely the person who noticed the error should have made every effort possible to notify staff and not given up after being told that the tournament director was too busy.
Welcome to the site Robert Kennedy, nice first post by the way…
For your information I WAS THE ONE who noticed the error…I was the one who approached the desk to see if I could get a print out to check the scores as I mentioned that I thought there was an error and couldn’t be sure that it was in either the qualifying sheet or Match Play sheet, at this time I WAS NOT THE OFFICIAL SCORER for this event so I couldn’t be 100% sure I was right…
I was populating MY OWN SCORE SHEETS for the TotalBowling site to upload for its members…Scores were being read out to me and I couldn’t be 100% sure at the time it wasn’t me who made the error on my own sheet…Getting score sheets emailed to me that made sense was a little difficult, and yes Brett was very busy with the running of the event…As it turned out I was correct and there was an error, after checking it properly when returning home to QLD…
As Brett has pointed out he wasn’t informed by me but yes the Staff were at the counter…They were the ones who said he was out the back doing the scores and was too busy to print out a sheet…I decided to close the Laptop and watch the Match Play for the rest of the event…
As you know nothing worse than being accused by someone of something you may or may not have done, without all facts…
Hope that clears it up for you and enjoy the rest of the site…
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Brett,
I think you did a good job under what were often very trying circumstances. Especially last weekend at Moorabbin where nothing quite works the way it should.
Being TD is a thankless job mostly and never more so when the centre's equipment lets you down. Lord knows how many times people's lane moves just vanished into the ether for minutes at a time at Moorabbin. It must have been infuriating.
Enjoy your new, undoubtedly quieter life.
Jason
p.s. Let me know who was mean to your good wife and I'll gladly counsel them regarding the error of their ways. Not via PM either...
R
robertkennedy
Thanks for the welcome Jase,
I wasn't having a go at you. Just wondered why someone wouldn't make more of an effort to advise of an error if one was noticed.
As you have stated you weren't 100% sure that an error had been made so thats understandable
Surely though if Brett had been advised earlier then there wouldn't have been any need for this post and discussion on the forum. A lot of hard work goes into organising tournaments and everyone makes mistakes.
I think we should be giving Brett a pat on the back for the hard work he put in not criticising him for a simple mistake.
Regards
Robert
I wasn't having a go at you. Just wondered why someone wouldn't make more of an effort to advise of an error if one was noticed.
As you have stated you weren't 100% sure that an error had been made so thats understandable
Surely though if Brett had been advised earlier then there wouldn't have been any need for this post and discussion on the forum. A lot of hard work goes into organising tournaments and everyone makes mistakes.
I think we should be giving Brett a pat on the back for the hard work he put in not criticising him for a simple mistake.
Regards
Robert
renta
Member
I agree what a "DISGRACE".. I hope action was taken against this person...
Making threats against any person is so so wrong........
Just wondering what rules are in place for ensuring game scores for bowlers are correct during tournaments?
Do individuals still receive their own score sheets for personal scoring?
Is it not the individual bowlers responsibility to maintain and check their game scores?
If it is not their responsibility surely it would be a sensible thing to do. If this was undertaken then a bowler would be able to bring the discrepency to the TDs attention when it is first noticed.
Just a thought folks
Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. ~ Goethe
Do individuals still receive their own score sheets for personal scoring?
Is it not the individual bowlers responsibility to maintain and check their game scores?
If it is not their responsibility surely it would be a sensible thing to do. If this was undertaken then a bowler would be able to bring the discrepency to the TDs attention when it is first noticed.
Just a thought folks
Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. ~ Goethe
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
I find it disgraceful that someone has the nerve to disrespect someones family, especially if that family memebers, are not involed.
Brett has done the job for several years, bowlers will always complain about condition and stuff, but be thank full someone like Brett is tring to keep bowling in australia going.
Brett please dont leave
Brett has done the job for several years, bowlers will always complain about condition and stuff, but be thank full someone like Brett is tring to keep bowling in australia going.
Brett please dont leave
AdamT
New Member
Yes it is the individuals responsibility to check their game scores, however the problem was with the carry over pinfall and not the scores from matchplay, so it would have been more difficult to notice as all your game scores from matchplay would look correct.
We shouldn't be trying to apportion blame to anyone here. A mistake was made, it has since been corrected, so we should get over it and move on. I'm sure tournament directors and bowlers themselves will be keeping a closer eye on their scores from now on to prevent a repeat.
xballs
bujinkan budo taijutsu
When finally back in Adelaide - having to read some of this is just incredible. Firstly I would like to thank Bert for all the effort put in of the past 18 months. I have only bowled a couple of tournaments in this period - mainly due to injury, but I can say the 2 I have entered where you have directed have been run extremely well. Thank you for all your efforts. If someone had personally attack my wife - I can tell you now they would not be walking today. That is not on - if that person would like to PM me I would glady give them a time & a place to meet.
Secondly - if Jase(or anyone) had approached at the counter and the staff could not be bothered because they where too busy that person should be sacked. This is supposed to be one of Australia's premier events and every effort by staff & the TD to make sure everything is correct. If someone approached the counter and Said I think there might be a mistake - then that person should at least let the TD know. Shame Shame.
Dave K
Secondly - if Jase(or anyone) had approached at the counter and the staff could not be bothered because they where too busy that person should be sacked. This is supposed to be one of Australia's premier events and every effort by staff & the TD to make sure everything is correct. If someone approached the counter and Said I think there might be a mistake - then that person should at least let the TD know. Shame Shame.
Dave K
