What kept the scores down at Melbourne International Tenpin Cup?

[da_cowman]

It was tough. It was pretty similar each day.
Thats exactly what we should get for these tournaments. I'll turn up to every tournament where I know that only by making continuous good shots, will you do any good. Isn't that what makes this a sport???

Later Da Cowman!

 

[renta]

I was a spectator for 2 days not only did the bowlers have to be accurate your speed had to be on the money otherwise you were either out of bounds or left ......Way left for the right handers ...reverse for the lefty's.....
this condition was a good as the feild was kept tight except for Riley....

As each squad bowled the amount of heads that were down as everyone thinking about their shot....Tough lanes......

 

[CHIN]

What, Accuracy. Bugger me.

 

[AdrianS]

I see on page 1 the pattern was 'TBA Approved' I thought anything goes in a major now?
Jasons comment that it was the 'same' on both sides convinces me it was fair but some people are still tying the 'fair' tag to it because of the scoring level, wrong!!!! Gawd that drives me up the wall.....

 

[rambo1]

so reverse blocks are the way to go to make bowling fair, this was tried in the mid 80's scores & entries plummeted

 

[tonx]

so reverse blocks are the way to go to make bowling fair, this was tried in the mid 80's scores & entries plummeted

How is having an OOB outside 5 board a reverse block?

It is super refreshing to discuss with some of the bowlers that actually bowled on the weekend why they felt they scored poorly, and why the cream rised to the top. They ALL seem to repeat the same theme.

"When I made good shots, I struck. When I made poor shots, I was penalised."

They all seem to admitt that they bowled below their true ability on the day.

Congrats to the guys that bowled well!

 

[mattr]

Well i think there was an issue with the kegal.

With the pattern being short and flatter, there was a lot of hook in the middle of the lane. I played up it and hard on the fresh, then as it carried down i moved inside.

but it was a matter of if u missed u got penalised badly

 

[jason_doust]

Well spotted Adrian.

Friction up front with a reverse block on both sides of the lane is the "same" for each side. It isn't much "fun" however.

As for fair, that's the most subjective term in bowling.

Either way, it costs a lot of money and raises questions of value for the following year, especially in light of the prize fund debacle.

 

[willey]

If there was an Out of Bounds, than it must have been an error, you just cannot Program one in. From what I have observed, some Synthetic lanes have waves down the sides where they are screwed down, I have had the Installers tell me they cannot be measured with feeler gauges, but they are there, you can see them, so they must effect the ball. Other than that the lanes were not cleaned properly, Kegel or any other brand of lane cleaner does not clean the lane properly, it doesn't matter how many times you run it down the lane.

willey

 

[wchester]

Willey..

With all due respect sir....where do you live, under a rock?

Yes, you can program an Out of Bounds!

Those installers aren't telling the truth. Lane measuring equipment can tell if tilt is present, be it a little or a lot, front to back or side to side.

Lane cleaners of today do 100 times better job than the old ' strip by hand' method

 

[Trouss]

Willy. . .

With all due respect. . . . What he said ^^^

and

The waves you "see" could be an optical illusion caused by the "vertival lines on the lane surface" travelling away from you. . . the eyes can play tricks.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

The bowlers who succeeeded were young and strong who could "throw" the ball at a small target down the lane with enough revs to bring it back to the pocket, throw it short and it took off, throw it too hard and big splits - simple, Matt was the prime example, strong enough to do all that and excellent to watch - Good job on winning,

Bowlers who didn't have the pace and strength, ie the 6 or so seniors and other strokers should have stayed at home because all of them couldn't have bowled that poorly all at the same time, no matter, no quarms from us we live and learn, we understand the youths and adults need to be challenged, but we also realise our capabilities, thats probably why there are no senior crankers, all wore out too early, or had to change as the body just doesn't allow it.
We'll just re-think our participation on these type of conditions, most times we'll still be there battling on, but not on this particular type, and as one who was there, my body still aches a little.
Accuracy wasn't the only factor as you could be accurate and still be in a lot of strife.

ps: at my age everyone under 40 is young and strong

 

[jason_doust]

Aw crap, I'm no longer young or strong! (The hair's on the way out too...)

The waves you "see" could be an optical illusion caused by the "vertival lines on the lane surface" travelling away from you. . . the eyes can play tricks.

I think that Willy isn't entirely off the mark with the issue of topography. It could explain the erratic behaviour experienced outside 5. The good people of Kegel have proven that synthetics tend to have more topography issues than wood lanes.

I've seen plenty of synthetic houses where you can see the depressions surrounding the screw hole plugs on the edge. It's like a warning sign saying "Don't bowl here."

 

[rambo1]

well let me tell you tonx when you have an out of bounds outside most of the time the condition will be flatter in the middle resulting mostly in reverse blocks unless from 15 to 15 is heavily oiled tapering out to 5 board than flooding it outside 5 to 1 board

 

[willey]

Wayne, Trouss, I have oiled lanes since I was 17, I'm as old as you Wayne. I think you are talking Reverse Block, if anyone oils lanes with a Reverse Block to Trick-Up the lanes to decrease scoring than they need their Head examined, because it's not fair to everybody, it's like oiling both sides exactly the same for left handed and right handed bowlers, it will start off the same than it will change as the Tournament progresses, than becomes very unfair.

As for cleaning the lane, hand is best, better still is to Dry Buff, I'm sure you have seen the result where if the lane has been cleaned by the Machines more than once you get an enormous Back-end, I know I've seen where the lanes have been washed between Squads, the back-ends get bigger for evey Squad. I've seen this debate on Bowltech, the answer is as Bill Taylor says "if you have squeeky clean you have something on the lane" and it's detergent, the more you clean the more detergent residue you leave on the lane.

About the Waves, it is as I said, they have tried to measure them and they can't, but you can see them and I'm sure they must effect the ball.

willey

 

[CT]

Lane topography aside, the pattern that was chosen for the event was a big mistake. To set a relatively short pattern on high friction surface, then blend the oil for a break point in the 10-8 board region is asking for trouble!

Not a lot of thought has gone into the lane conditioning. If the pattern was extended to 39 or 40 feet, it would have played really well. It still would have been a challenge, but wouldn't have favoured certain types of bowlers.

With the break point being so far in on a short pattern, it is inevitable that the bowlers how can maintain high ball speed consistently, or those that have lower rev rates will both succeed. For the rest of us, it was a case of make a great shot or get 6.

As for the OB to the outside, i personally think this is an effective of the house shot. Bowlers using polished equipment would note that after a number of games the ball loses its shine. This is cause when the ball loses it polish, with most of it (if not all of it) ending up on the lane surface. All polishes are abrasive in one way or another. So when the house shot dictates a break point around the 8th board (which is fairly standard across the country at the moment) the polished balls are leaving the polish/abrasive behind on the lane surface, creating a higher friction area on the lane.

When tournaments come to town and the break point is moved out, the balls hit the area of the lane that does not have as much wear causing the ball to not react as strongly. This was very evident at MITC, as when you missed right (right handers) the ball wouldn't turn over on the backend. Get the ball a little left and it would hit the higher friction area of the lane and take off. This caused a huge over/under reaction, which was only tamed with high speed or lower revs.

As for the backends increasing after every wash, i have coined the term 'kegelitis'. It has happened at almost every event I have bowled in the past 3 years. By the time the final day comes around the lanes border on unplayable until they carry down. The way to get around this would be to set-up up the lanes on the Thursday before an event and only drag the backends. This would alloy the lane tech's to build a pattern like what used to be done many moons ago.

Opinions welcome

CT

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Most of what you say is correct Chris and I can understand where your logic seems to be, however there are more than one type of polish, some are designed, as you indicate, to be abrasive, most are designed to FILL the pores of the surface it is polishing and then the polish is shined up.
When you have high friction areas, and some of us agree there is too much washing and not enough good ol just drag the lanes and rejuvenate the heads, the faster moving item doesn't necesserily lay down enough polish residue to make the difference you are talking about, normally it is the reverse the lacquer is being lifted onto the ball, as the ball surface isn't that abrasive, I have found in our centre, that is what makes an area on the lane more agressive, is lack of use in a specific area and squeaky clean washes.
Most of the leagues will bowl 10-20 board, and only a few of us who have the equipment to venture out at 3-9 board, and often the wider it goes the harder it comes back,maybe its just our centre and giving me false indications....someone let me know, if this seems corret or not?...cheers

 

[CT]

I was talking in relation to synthetic lanes. I can't recall having bowled on lacquer in the last 20 years!

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Mate, you bowl on it everytime your roll a ball, synthetic refers to the construction material of the actual lanes, synthetic lanes are built where each panel is tabbed together a clear flexible sheet is adherred to the panels with a finishing coat to provide a sliding surface, the reason for the sheet is to provide protection between the panels and the finishing coat, hence the finishing coat (a form of lacquer) can be lifted due to ball reaction and surfaces too clean.

 

[AdrianS]

Hey Chris, what you suggested with only backend washes getting done through the event has been done in 1 major i know of, the 1998 Melbourne Cup. Can anyone remember another one in times more recent than that?