What do people want to see

[lovey]

After going back to have a bowl in The BMW Country Open, how do we get the crowds back to watch our great game. Trying not to bring back the 80's 90's when the crowds we huge. I remember bowling in a tournament where people were cued out the door to watch us. I want those people back. Any thoughts. How do we turn it around.
Cheers Lovey

 

[rum]

We need more colourful characters like you in the game Lovey

 

[Hooligan]

Steve,
Everybody is asking that very same question. We just canned an open tournament up here due to lack of interest.
The best answer I have is the soon to be television sensation...
So, you think you can bowl?

lol

 

[Geoff300]

After going back to have a bowl in The BMW Country Open, how do we get the crowds back to watch our great game. Trying not to bring back the 80's 90's when the crowds we huge. I remember bowling in a tournament where people were cued out the door to watch us. I want those people back. Any thoughts. How do we turn it around.
Cheers Lovey

Steve

I recall all that myself bith spectator and as a bowler

We used to have stands in some centres and that was
just for qualifying

We miss characters in the game and people with the
skill sets that excited us about the game, like the ability
to be incredibly accurate and who could spare along
with close games in competition

Also the rise and fall of the ATBC destroyed the common
interest and following of the very strong membership we had

And we miss a guy like Steve Mackie at the helm of AMF
He was a bowler, loved the game and the sport and helped
forge out a Grand Prix comp that was fantastic

Saying all that the outrageous price of a game of bowling
today makes it difficult for the Joe average to bowl enough
to get any good and to enter Tourns

Also I feel like we have lost some credability from the game
due to the high scores bowled everywhere on ditches
of house shots and half a dozen 300 games in a tourn, not
that alot of them get sanctioned though.

Anyway , just some of my thoughts

 

[lovey]

Thanks Geoff,
Sure I remember those times with Steve Mackie. Where are the replies from the bowlers from today. Guys I'm trying to get answers for you, not me, I've had my time. I don't give a rats I'm doing it for you. So get on here a try and give some thoughts to get people involved. I want to see this game grow, not go backwards.
Cheers Lovey

 

[Troyza]

It's just the nature of today's generation I think. We all grew up seeing bowling as that cool thing you might be able to go do for fun, if mum & dad could afford it. The problem isn't in bowling, it's in the general public.

 

[Deano]

Well the obvious thing people want to see is money. But its not all about that. I spose alot of people get disheartend when they see the scores of alot of the tournaments and go crap how am i going to average 240 over 20 games. People get the thing in their head and go well im not going to go away just to finish 10th or somthing like that. Not sure how we could make the bowling not even but closer. The cream will rise to the top either way you do it. Maybe if we did different tournaments such as the plastic ball one or even a urethane one and maybe look at more country centres holding tournaments. Its amazing how much support a country town will give if somthing big is going to happen. Im sure if Belmo or George were going to come to Mildura to bowl a tournament that it would be made a big deal of. With support from the community comes sponsorship and with that increase of prizemoney. I think we need to get back to the old days of bowling or when it was at its peak and see what went wrong and correct it. At the end of the day this is a great sport that has so much potential. Just my bit.

Dean McKinnon

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Steve,

Years ago, immense crowds came to watch tournaments because they wanted to watch high class players shooting scores that were virtually unheard of in league play. Given the explosion of high scores in league play, people no longer want to go and watch us shoot the same scores they do in league and they certainly don't want to go and watch supposedly elite bowlers grind out a bare 200 average on a tough condition.

I also guess that the personalities have been pretty much legislated out of the game as well (see Rachuig where you can get a red card for riding a shot more than one lane and sledging is frowned upon) meaning there is a lot of automotons out there who are too scared of getting a card. Imagine Bruce Peel or Ron Spiteri today. They would struggle to get through practice without getting carded.

 

[bluey]

Many sports seem to have a dwindling number of "characters." AFL had guys like Warrick Capper, Mark Jacko Jackson, Tennis had John McEnroe, golf had some spanish bloke whose name escapes me. People like to see "characters" that are entertaining as well as being reasonably well skilled. I think that most sports in their professionalism are eliminating a lot of the individualness of people. I know you say that you've had your day Steve but to me, you are a bigger draw card than the current crop of bowlers we have. You may not be averaging what you used to (maybe you are) but you don't ignore the crowd and stuff in a pair of earphones. People like to be entertained and we certainly don't deliver like the guys of old. Even loud pants are banned from the K&K classic, I'm sure there is a logical reason for this but it isn't encouraging anyone to stand out in the crowd. You always stood out along with Brenton and his loud pants, and bowling good or bad it was always good to watch. I think Dean has a good point on the scores to a degree. Newcomers are scared ****less of the high averages needed to be competitive even though they are often pattern related, and on the other hand who wants to come and watch from a spectater point of view a bunch of blokes throwing 180 games cause they can't play on a tough pattern? Unfortunately l can't see anything changing in a hurry.
How to fix it? With money comes crowds, with crowds comes money, which one comes first?

 

[GeorgeF]

Nice post Lovey, I think there are many reasons why spectator numbers have dropped.

#1. Tournament organisers must promote the event properly. If you local centre has only 1 chance to host Australia's best would you not tell every single league bowler in that centre for several weeks leading into the event? Unfortunately AMF doesn't and most dont. A lot of tournaments now are just a lost opportunity at linage and birthday parties. The exception to this is Berri and Orange in recent years, both have committed and passionate promoters who give something back to the sport subsequently, both events pull big crowds.

#2. Promotion of players - This is something that they do overseas that we dont do here. If an Australian rep or champion is playing in the squad, make an announcement and tell the crowd. Introduce bowlers and give them a little attention, this helps in building stars and funny enough the crowd will follow the results a little more closely to see if the Vic champ defeated the NSW cham, etc etc.

#3. Create rivalries, one thing you have to hand to the Vics is that they may not be the smartest tools in the shed but they are certainly passionate about their locals doing well against Interstate competition. I have lost count on how many times I've played Vics in Victoria and had 20-30 people cheering for the person I'm playing against and it was dead silent when I bowled. That creates atmosphere and interest, something crowds are drawn to.

#4. Like Brenton said, the last decade of bowling evolution which has resulted in an increase of scores has made the WOW factor ever so minuscule. With most league conditions being a great wall of China, bowlers and spectators have seen high scores before. Watching Mick Little or Qualla shoot 279 is just standard in today's environments. If thats going to be the norm, at least announce it to the crowd.

#5. Finally, I think there is a large onus on bowlers show some emotion. When I first started bowling tournaments most bowlers showed emotion and were passionate about bowling. Most tournaments I bowl now (especially in capital cities) are like a morgues. If someone threw a strike to shut out their opponent and the whole bowl knew about it. I think more bowlers need to show a little more passion.

Anyway, the K&K classic always pulls a big crowd due to the high caliber bowlers participating and the great promotion from the tournament promoters. Let Queensland lead by example and see if we can make a difference.

 

[sallylicious]

Most centres don't want to hold a tournament because it's too hard, sponsorship is very difficult to obtain, getting bowlers to bowl is extremely difficult and some of the requirements needed to hold tournaments just puts centre managers and owners off.
How about a variety in the formats for tournaments, most today are virtually the same, x amount of games to qualify, cut to x bowlers and play x games. Surely some people can come up with something a bit different, the old Margaret Cole tournament is one example of something different.
A lot of centre managers and/or owners do say that they can get more revenue from social bowling, unfortunately they don't seem to realise by holding a tournament and getting name bowlers to bowl this could make the interest in bowling more in the spotlight therefore more social bowlers.
Lastly a lot of the "elite" bowlers won't go to a tournament unless the payout down to x place is enough to cover their bowling, accommodation and travel leaving smaller centres or unknown tournaments in the cold so they would be running the tournaments for locals who really don't want to bowl against those they bowl against in league.
Just a few observations from someone who has watched the downward turn of tournaments in the last 10 to 20 years

 

[cruzin]

Steve
I think that the public's access to the top bowlers through the electronic media in recent years has had a lot to do with it. We regularly see the "cream" on Foxtel eg Weber Cup, World Masters etc...PBA programmes are regularly on ESPN, The top Aussies bowlers are on Ch 31 The Tenpin Bowling Show, or you can go to Youtube, punch in a bowlers name and away you go...
So what I am saying is that this access to seeing these guys will keep people away. Back in your time, there was virtually no exposure via the media so the only way the public would see you guys was to turn up and watch you live.
I remember when Tim Mack came to Moorabbin to bowl the SPC. Not many of us had seen him but we had heard of this guy who travelled the world winning tournaments for a living, who had bowled 60 odd 300 games. That tournament was packed. The stand was full and you had to push in to get a look. If he came this year Im sure he would get a crowd but I doubt it would be anything like at Moorabbin.We've all seen him a hundred times right?
Seems that crowds are dwindling in a lot of other sports and the sad thing is that once they are lost they seem to be gone forever.

 

[Hippy??]

I know the two ingredients needed for a great atmosphere......

Just add Dwambo and Jim Beam.....plenty of BIG atmosphere guaranteed....

You could also add Mary and XXXX for a similar result...

 

[Geoff300]

Steve,

Years ago, immense crowds came to watch tournaments because they wanted to watch high class players shooting scores that were virtually unheard of in league play. Given the explosion of high scores in league play, people no longer want to go and watch us shoot the same scores they do in league and they certainly don't want to go and watch supposedly elite bowlers grind out a bare 200 average on a tough condition.

I also guess that the personalities have been pretty much legislated out of the game as well (see Rachuig where you can get a red card for riding a shot more than one lane and sledging is frowned upon) meaning there is a lot of automotons out there who are too scared of getting a card. Imagine Bruce Peel or Ron Spiteri today. They would struggle to get through practice without getting carded.

That is all so true

Imagine today Lovey kicking the **** of a ball return !!!! hahahaha !!!
Or telling someone 4 lanes away to F@#$ Off

 

[Geoff300]

Thanks Geoff,
Sure I remember those times with Steve Mackie. Where are the replies from the bowlers from today. Guys I'm trying to get answers for you, not me, I've had my time. I don't give a rats I'm doing it for you. So get on here a try and give some thoughts to get people involved. I want to see this game grow, not go backwards.
Cheers Lovey

In the dim dark ages, when I was a junior at 12-14 years of age We had
people called Junior Guardians who were appointed by the Centre and the Junior leagues
They mostly came from Parents or senior bowlers, One of mine was
Sam Theokolis, A great bowler and Aust Rep at the time.

At the end of Junior league on Sat or Sun we would pile into cars and be taken to St Leonards or Liechardt Bowl to watch the heros of the day bowl in their own leagues.

we all learnt from this experience and when Tourn were on we couldnt wait to go to watch

Hence, Grass roots is where we are failing
We must get the kids involved , coached etc

Other views on Leagues today bowling huge scores every week is very true
and as i have said before we wont get this credabilty and hero bowler status back until we address easy shot conditions that give everyone a false sense of their true ability

 

[GoTheCell]

Nice post Lovey, I think there are many reasons why spectator numbers have dropped.

#1. Tournament organisers must promote the event properly. If you local centre has only 1 chance to host Australia's best would you not tell every single league bowler in that centre for several weeks leading into the event? Unfortunately AMF doesn't and most dont. A lot of tournaments now are just a lost opportunity at linage and birthday parties. The exception to this is Berri and Orange in recent years, both have committed and passionate promoters who give something back to the sport subsequently, both events pull big crowds.

What about the fact that there is nothing else in Berri or Orange for people to do? Yeah the events are promoted but they are also not competing with everything else like other places are.

You also left out a number of centres and tournaments, just in Vic. Two off the top of my head: Sunraysia Marathon always has people coming to watch, not huge numbers but always there. Vic Country Cup is usually supported with a few spectators as well.

As for AMF - they are a business and they only want the money. They don't care about the sport and as long as they are filling the cash register they don't care if it is tournaments or social play.

 

[Troyza]

Ehh.. I think that really depends on what AMF center you are talking about, gothecell. I know for a fact that many of us in AMF Tuggeranong are passionate about bowling, & try & help as much as we're 'allowed' to, by regional management.

 

[jockey]

Steve

Great to see one of our sports greatest still pushing its virtues to all.

There has been a lot of years gone by since we had such a strong tournament scene and unfortunately time and money is what dictates much of our lives these days. Saying that a lot of people have moved on from our sport before their bowling use by date was up due to numerous factors that for them was the right thing to do. I too have been one of those at least as far as tournaments are concerned in the last year or so for my own personal reasons.

The sad state of our sport is due to just that, people moving on as normally happens as you go through life, combined with the sorry state of the attitude that the general populous of bowling proprietors have taken in the last decade or so.

As mentioned in previous posts on this thread we have what we call 'our sport' that in the general publics perception is just a 'fad' or 'hobby' or 'a way to kill off time with friends for awhile'. Combining this with the lack of support in general from bowling proprietors and the unrealistic scoring conditions in general league play and we are already way behind the eight ball when it comes to establishing an acceptance by the public as a 'creditable sport'.

How we go about achieving that public creditability is the big issue that we face. My first thought is to eliminate the scoring creditability problem by enforcing sports patterns to be laid for all league play. Now of course it is not just lane patterns that dictate the scoring but as placing restrictions on equipment manufacturing is practically impossible it is through lane conditioning control where this can only currently be acheived. Do this and reestablish the awe a 270+ game once commanded and we would have taken the first step. Make it a significant achievement again to throw a 300 game and to maintain a 200+ average and we are a significant way to achieving our aim.

The next step is again a difficult one. We need to try to find some way to get the bowling game rate afforded to league bowlers to be at an extremely competitive and acceptable level to again not only encourage bowlers to regularly bowl in more than one league like in the 80's & 90's but to also dramatically increase the regular league bowler populous across the country. From this we then need to leverage this people power through an Australia wide totally united / supported membership body to be able to continue to encourage the proprietors to support the 'sport' of bowling.

The final step should then be a flow on from the second whereby we through the numbers of bowlers establish a viable tournament scene for junior, youth, adult and senior levels. This will only be possible if the Australia wide supported body heavily resources the establishment and ongoing support of junior and youth development programs throughout the country.

Thats my thoughts and as you can see it is not going to be something that can be done overnight with step 1 being what I believe is the most important step. Unfortunately it is also the most unlikely to be achieved and thus no progress towards our goal can be made until this is addressed.

Considering the attitude of not only the proprietors but most current league bowlers (who mistakenly think they 20 or 30 pin better players than they actually are), the 'sport of bowling' in this country will remain in limbo!

 

[GoTheCell]

Combining this with the lack of support in general from bowling proprietors and the unrealistic scoring conditions in general league play

Yet another generalisation that many centres do not deserve.

You only have to look through the high games on this site to see which centres are ditching the lanes.

You only have to look through the posts on this site to see which proprietors support the sport.

The problem with bowling at present is people are too narrow minded to see the problem.

The entire image of bowling needs to change. The average person on the street doesn't care what tournaments bowling has. They want something affordable and where they have a good time. The average person on the street doesn't give a **** what scores people are bowling in league until they join a league.

Instead of trying to fix the sport for the league and tournament bowlers how about people start thinking about participation rates and how to get people in the door to start with. This whole "I want to change things so I like the leagues/tournaments better" attitude of a lot of people on this site is appalling. Look outside the box and away from what you want personally and then you might see the real needs of the sport.

Get people in the door and bowling to start with and then they might stay if they are looked after. They might even come to watch a tournament!

 

[nev25]

Yet another generalisation that many centres do not deserve.

You only have to look through the high games on this site to see which centres are ditching the lanes.

You only have to look through the posts on this site to see which proprietors support the sport.

The problem with bowling at present is people are too narrow minded to see the problem.

The entire image of bowling needs to change. The average person on the street doesn't care what tournaments bowling has. They want something affordable and where they have a good time. The average person on the street doesn't give a **** what scores people are bowling in league until they join a league.

Instead of trying to fix the sport for the league and tournament bowlers how about people start thinking about participation rates and how to get people in the door to start with. This whole "I want to change things so I like the leagues/tournaments better" attitude of a lot of people on this site is appalling. Look outside the box and away from what you want personally and then you might see the real needs of the sport.

Get people in the door and bowling to start with and then they might stay if they are looked after. They might even come to watch a tournament!

Extremely well said

As Ive said elsewhere there a huge gap between social bowlers and and league bowlers
One of the biggest problems is the lack of coaches

Get more people into the sport and the sponsors and the money will follow its a natural progression and winging about the lack of money wont do Jack