What a guy!!

[NoodleS]

Yes what an absolutely awesome man Rob is, and as was said earlier the whole family, such great people. I was so happy to have been able to witness that moment in Country Cup history.

Great idea about the encouragement award Dave and yes your right everyone will be to keen on winning then worrying about some ballot paper. Maybe its something the 2 managers from each team can knock heads about and just write down on the score sheet 1 person from their match together who they think not only impressed them on the lanes but also their sportsmanship and conduct during the game. Tally it at the end of the tournament and if there is anyone tied at the end split them by either average or total pinfall???

 

[Straight_kut]

I dont think an encouragement award should be based on pinfall or average.

In my opinion it defeats the purpose of an encouragement award if it againa comes back to highest average etc.

Also like all stars would you need to bowl atleast 2/3 of the games to qualify?

The manager selecting the player idea is probably the one that would work the easiest.

Also I too would be worried about rigging. But I think that most people at country cup are genuinely good sports.

 

[NoodleS]

I only meant that the average would be taken into account in the event of a tie in votes over the 22 matches. I agree that they should be left out of it completely only use them to split 2 people apart if the votes don't.

 

[bowlrig]

Hi guy's,
Thanks for all the kind words, but I did not give the ball away to recieve any credit or take away of the importance from the MVP award.

I had just purchased a new ball, that works well for me, and did not really need another.

As Sale was near us quite often I took note of how Matt and Scott were going.
I noticed that Matt was lead off bowler a fair bit of the time and had some big assignments in that position, beating Deano in the last game.
He spares very well but just seemed to lack a bit of carry as did Scott.
He conducted himself very maturely and was very polite. I did not realise that he was only 15 but that is here nor there.
He has the making to be the next Dean McKinnon or Jason Way of Sale if he sticks with it, listens, learns and most of all keeps the attitude he has now.

In summary, I don't know if there is a fair way or not to have an encouragement award picked out of 77 bowlers in each division. If you were to go this way Dave, maybe you could ask 3 or 4 bowlers for input based on a certain criteria in both divisions.

Maybe an Encouragement Award should not be a ball as a prize. Maybe it could be something that could help someone even more like some specialist coaching. Most country centres do not have access High Performance coaches. Just a thought.

I think that the MVP award, for me anyway, is greater than an Allstar team spot but I still want the ultimate, a Country Cup win.


Rob

 

[OTB]

I think the managers input is a great idea, and using the two managers from 'the match' removes a little of the biased voting or rigging as the mixed voting on any match is a good thing.

Craig, Youth MVP would be great, maybe this can be a work in progress. Do you have any thoughts on a criteria? First time player gets extra consideration?

Not sounding negative here (as stated in another thread, Country Cup is pretty special to me), when I walked in to the bowl on Sunday, it was like watching league in some ways - the cheer squads were'nt there and that makes a difference I know. Where was the atmosphere? Or was that just me?

I won't name names but more than a few bowlers told me this could have been their last, and some of these guys have a good 10 years minimum left in them. I won't judge anyone who doesn't try to qualify but is this actually a statement on CCup itself? Money, lifestyle, family, work, they all come into it obviously so there's no need to throw up excuses or reasons. I am keen to know what other people thought though, did I misinterpret or was the atmosphere a little dead?

Back to Engouragement awards.
Is there a way the male and female MVP's could still get their trophies and maybe award a single ball to the highest point earner? Given there was 25 pins difference between top averages men vs women, it wont be easy to manage. Maybe Gary Black has some stats could help formulate an answer, this would leave a ball to donate as an encouragement award.

I dont think all bowlers who would win a MVP Ball would appreciate not having access to a high end ball as a prize - would they? But then it's free isnt it so no one should really sook too much. If I can stretch my budget, maybe we can consider mid range balls and award three balls. Male and Female MVP, and a combined encouragement award. Or should it be the other way around, male and female encouragement and overall MVP?

People, your thoughts please.

Note - in no way can I commit to donating three balls at this stage, but I am happy to look into it and try my best. The trophies for the winner were an add on, now runners up trophies, not crying poor but no one is a bottomless money pit.

I am more for youth and junior encouragement than alot of people may realise, and I am happy to see the award go that way. But don't want to set up any criticism of the selection process or the fact that the MVP may no longer get a ball.

Cheers
David

 

[Gatsby]

He spares very well but just seemed to lack a bit of carry

I can't carry either -- why didn't you give the ball to me

What people are suggesting is similar to the "sportsmanship awards" that were voted on by every bowler in the very early years of Country Cup. This was stopped because the same person won nearly every year.

Actually, I think you will find that Jason also gave away the ball he won after winning MVP last year. Trish Beasley had her ball destroyed during practice in Sale on the Friday, so Jason gave her the ball he won Monday night.

 

[Gatsby]

Back to Engouragement awards.
Is there a way the male and female MVP's could still get their trophies and maybe award a single ball to the highest point earner? Given there was 25 pins difference between top averages men vs women, it wont be easy to manage. Maybe Gary Black has some stats could help formulate an answer, this would leave a ball to donate as an encouragement award.

If you are trying to compare men and women you could try by basing it on tournament average. This year tournament average for women was 162 and men was 181. To use high average as an example Jason's average (215) would be +34 and Highest womens average Selina Threlfall (190) would be +28. Combine this with points won and you would get a total that is comparable for women and men.

 

[OTB]

If you were to go this way Dave, maybe you could ask 3 or 4 bowlers for input based on a certain criteria in both divisions.
Maybe an Encouragement Award should not be a ball as a prize. Maybe it could be something that could help someone even more like some specialist coaching. Most country centres do not have access High Performance coaches. Just a thought.
I think that the MVP award, for me anyway, is greater than an Allstar team spot but I still want the ultimate, a Country Cup win.
Rob

Rob
Have you been reading my notes?

I had been thinking of a selection panel type of selection as a maybe but wanted to see what people suggested.
Also been thinking about a prize other than a material thing such as a ball but then thought who do we get to coach/evaluate. I am happy to be involved but I think unless the person has someone like yourself, Woody, Jason, Kev or Chandler nearby to continue the work (and then only if the Coach wants to), a one off session could be more destructive than constructive. And then who says I would make a suitable instructor?

We are working on a couple of other things at the moment which may be usable in this situation. So I guess time and discussion will tell.

I'm glad you hold the MVP in high regard, its definitely been the cream of talent to win it so far. We are comitted through to 2010 (already got the trophies) but want it to roll on and grow.

Cheers
David

 

[OTB]

Actually, I think you will find that Jason also gave away the ball he won after winning MVP last year. Trish Beasley had her ball destroyed during practice in Sale on the Friday, so Jason gave her the ball he won Monday night.

So its a trend now? lol.
God help the person who doesn't give their ball away!
Before anyone complains - that last comment was a joke.

If you are trying to compare men and women you could try by basing it on tournament average. This year tournament average for women was 162 and men was 181. To use high average as an example Jason's average (215) would be +34 and Highest womens average Selina Threlfall (190) would be +28. Combine this with points won and you would get a total that is comparable for women and men.

I like that idea, I guess it wouldn't take too long to work out either.
Out of interest, I'll send you a PM with my email, can you send me stats on the last three years.

Thanks Gary
David

 

[grumpie]

Dave,

I tend to agree with you. I thought that the weekend lacked atmosphere. However, I have only bowled 3 Ccups so maybe I am not the best judge.

Maybe the early start kept the women quite - I don't know.

Liz

 

[OTB]

If you are trying to compare men and women you could try by basing it on tournament average. This year tournament average for women was 162 and men was 181. To use high average as an example Jason's average (215) would be +34 and Highest womens average Selina Threlfall (190) would be +28. Combine this with points won and you would get a total that is comparable for women and men.

Crunched the numbers.
Nat Shelley would have won over Jason in Bendigo 2006
Denece Jones would have won over Jason in Sale (??) 2007
Rob would have won over Alicia in Ballarat this year

The numbers are interesting as the ladies overall average is pretty consistant around 20 pins per game below the mens.

Given Jason averaged 234 in bendigo (mens ave 196) with 17 wins and Nat ave 217 (womens ave 176) with 17.5 wins. Nat would have finished 5 points in front of Jason.

Hmmmmmm interesting.

David

 

[Eraser]

How about a MVP voting system, whereby the managers of the opposing teams are given a vote card, to which they are to name one bowler from the opposing side who had the greatest influence in their sides performance. I know alot of leagues run similar competitions. It may not always be the highest game takes the vote, perhaps it could be a player getting the most out of his/her fellow bowlers, a big finish or a crucial tough spare to take the points. I think this format certainly leaves things open to interpretation of the opposing manager and we will most likely see a different bowler taking the award every year.

 

[bowlrig]

I think the MVP system the way it is at the moment has merit.

As for managers, not all teams have a manager or coach, so this idea would be a little difficult to implement.

I think the award should be restricted to junior/youth as the are the future of this sport and Country Cup.

Getting back to the Encouragement Award though, maybe if each team, mens and womens had a $5.00 fee towards it and this somehow supplemented the supply of the award?? Don't know, just thinking out loud.

Rob

 

[Straight_kut]

Following on from robs suggestion if each team (male and female) put in say $2 per player.. ( eg. 11 teams of 14 bowlers = $308... im sure each player could chuck in $2 each) that could go towards encouragement awards to help OTB out a bit.

 

[grumpie]

Hi guy's,
Thanks for all the kind words, but I did not give the ball away to recieve any credit or take away of the importance from the MVP award.
Rob

Rob,

The reason I made special mention of your gesture is because not everybody would have done the same thing. Some people would have accepted the ball and either gave it to a friend or perhaps sold it. Your gesture was one of true sportsmanship. You looked at giving the ball to somebody you thought needed it more and was deserving of it in your eyes. That says a whole lot about your character.

Now I will stop, as the next time I see you, you may not be able to get your head in the door.

Liz

 

[Straight_kut]

Not sounding negative here (as stated in another thread, Country Cup is pretty special to me), when I walked in to the bowl on Sunday, it was like watching league in some ways - the cheer squads were'nt there and that makes a difference I know. Where was the atmosphere? Or was that just me?
I won't name names but more than a few bowlers told me this could have been their last, and some of these guys have a good 10 years minimum left in them. I won't judge anyone who doesn't try to qualify but is this actually a statement on CCup itself? Money, lifestyle, family, work, they all come into it obviously so there's no need to throw up excuses or reasons. I am keen to know what other people thought though, did I misinterpret or was the atmosphere a little dead?

I think the draw may have had something to do with it..
I know our teams went back to the motel when they werent bowling to get some sleep or over to the pub for a feed.
The times kinda didnt really allow people to be there all day as from start to finish for the day was very long!!!!!

But i guess theres been more years that have had similar draws..

 

[Purple_Tweety]

I will agree I did think there was a lack of atmosphere overall. Some parts were great others not so great.

I will admit I didn't like the 7am starts, I felt it was too early. Last year I bowled at Sale and we didn't finish until 2.30am and it didn't feel that late, but getting up at 5am or so did feel way too early. Although I will admit that starting early on the Monday has merit with people having to travel long distances.

With the exception of Geelong and Morwell (who can hold the whole tournament during the day) every other centre has to have split blocks and it's just the way it is.

 

[jEssicA-l0uisE]

i to believe the atmospher was very dead!
i see more chreering in junior country cup!

i think the whole starting at 7 IN THE MORNING~!!!!!!!
sorta took it out of us a bit!

but thats just me!

jess

 

[Woza]

Matt is 15 and has just bowled his 1st Country Cup with the big boys. Watching him bowl, you would never have know. He took on the great Wayne Mills and beat him the first round. As if that wasn't enough, La Trobe made the mistake of lining Wayne up against him in the 2nd round with the same result.

Well as luck would have it guess which two teams were playing each other in league tonight - even though they were not direct opponents the scoreline was 4-0 after the first 2 before finishing 4-1 Matt with a nice 600 series for the night.

 

[Woza]

Not the right Forum for posting this under but it would be the flatest Country Cup that I have bowled in.

I think that the 7am starts and 1am finishes have somthing to do with it. Remember we have added to extra lane maintenances (which adds 1 1/4 hour) each day since Bendigo. Never used to oil after every squad. If they went back to one lot of lane maintenance the start could have been at least 8am