TotalBowling and AMF part ways...

Maybe AMF got sick of being canned for everything they on this forum or maybe they know something about the Tenpin Bowling industry that might see our National Body struggle to stay afloat. I am led to believe that current membership is way down on budget and that has to put pressure on paying for Office, staff, full time coach and our very expensive CEO. Maybe, just maybe AMF have decided that Birthday Parties and Social bowlers bring bigger and better profits and less headaches and not as many complaints from bowlers who want everything for nothing these days. Or maybe the powers to be have decided that they just can not afford to spend Dollars on certain items and are cutting back across the board. H'mm maybe no oiling lanes and putting Cups of coffees up to $3.80 like Mentone did over the weekend. :surrender:
Ahhhhh to walk into a bowl for league, bowl 3 games have a drink and still have some change from a twenty Dollar bill......not anymore times have changed and will keep changing.:(
But I really like the idea of a "Tournament Players Association" and someone like Steve Jones :cool:should be asked to help set up and get it running ASAP then and only then will the tournament bowler be happy in the knowledge that these events are run and promoted the way they should be and some centres would be lining up to negotiate a deal to have them bowled in their centre (including AMF).:eek:
 
It’s Jordan Rodgers here, Chief Executive Officer of AMF Bowling. This is the first time I have posted on TotalBowling.com.au but feel compelled to give my view on the circumstances of AMF Bowling deciding to discontinue its sponsorship of the site and the chat that has occurred since then.

My decision to discontinue our sponsorship of TotalBowling.com.au was made with the expectation that it would cause the blogging stir that it has since the decision was announced on the site by Jason yesterday. We are always looking at expenses and revenue in the business to continue to operate more efficiently. Sponsorship of the site is not a large cost but it is one that I have looked at from time to time and questioned the value of, particularly as we are now able to fulfil tournament entries & squad listings through our own website.

For the past 2 years I have watched the site with particular interest in the chat space and how AMF Bowling is talked about. I have seen that AMF is held in very poor regard by the chat community, with a general perception that AMF Bowling is uninterested in the sport, only concerned with short term profits, only interested in the social bowler etc...

It was my hope that by sponsoring the TotalBowling site and displaying our brand as a “proud sponsor” that we might be able to engender some positive impressions of the AMF Bowling brand, and demonstrate our commitment to league bowling. Unfortunately the sponsorship did nothing to support this. My view is that our sponsorship did not seem to hold any value to the community chatting on the site so rather than continue to associate our brand with the negative content of chat about it, we should remove the brand association and continue our mission to improve the sport of tenpin bowling and its image elsewhere.

The notion that AMF is only interested in social bowlers, glow bowlers and birthday parties is really unfortunate. League bowling is our bread and butter. AMF Bowling operates traditional bowling centres to which league bowling is critical to their success. We are battling many social factors that are impacting the growth of league bowling in its traditional form. Much of our energy is focussed on growing leagues to counteract such factors and we remain committed to the league bowling segment that underpins our commercial success and comprises our most high value customers.

We also, unapologetically, value the social bowling market and are pleased with the growth that bowling is enjoying in this segment. My view is that the more people that get to experience the fun of tenpin bowling the better off we are. AMF Bowling are happy that revenue is being generated, the sport should be happy that it is attracting more participants and hopefully if the experience is compelling enough, some occasional bowlers will take bowling up as their sport and enjoy the competition and camaraderie that we all know it can offer.

On tournaments, AMF do not make any money in hosting the Super 6. However, we have continued to run tournaments in the hope that, if we can make the tournaments sufficiently attractive, the elite of the sport will be showcased in a light that will make the average league bowler aspire to compete at this level and therefore contribute to increased participation in the sport.

To date we have enjoyed generous sponsorship of our tournaments, most noticeably from Brunswick, Columbia, & Ebonite to name a few. Each year we go cap in hand and ask for sponsorship yet these great bowling brands see little value in the sponsorships but so far have continued to support us to keep the tournament scene alive. It was my hope that we could attract more sponsorship money from consumer brands that would see value in being associated with elite tenpin bowling tournaments so that we could reduce the entry fees, broaden the formats and attract more participants by offering better prize money for the winners and those that place deeper down the field. To this end we engaged a Sponsorship Manager to talk to large consumer brands to see if we could attract say $50,000 per tournament. Unfortunately we have not been successful. We do not have a compelling enough model and market to attract meaningful sponsorship from outside the industry.

The tournament scene is therefore in trouble because it doesn’t make sense for AMF Bowling and a handful of reluctant bowling product sponsors to prop up a model that isn’t satisfying its participants, isn’t inspiring new participants and isn’t attractive to new sponsors. I think the formation to a Tournament Players Association to manage major tournaments under the auspices of the TBA is an idea worth pursuing. If you can harness your passion for the sport productively to create a better tournament scene, AMF Bowling would be happy to be involved if and where appropriate.


I hope this blog posting has helped to clarify our recent decision and also reassure you that league bowling continues to be a focus for the business. If you have any feedback about our new website or about our tournaments or leagues please don’t hesitate to send it through to league_enquiries@amfbowling.com.au.


Jordan Rodgers
Chief Executive Officer
AMF Bowling Centres Australia
 
We said Jordon - thanks for taking the time to come on here & explain whats happening.

Hopefully the tournament scene in Australia can bounce back from where it is.

To be honest all I want as Bowler is the chance to beat the best Australia has to offer. I don't really care if its AMF or Independent centers - if its viable I will bowl.

Dave Kuhn
 
For some reason, the following paragraph was deleted from my post earlier.

Regarding tournament entries for 2009, we have recently introduced a new website www.amfbowling.com.au/competitive-bowling just for tournament and league bowlers. On this site you can access all AMF Bowling tournament entry forms, view tournament squad lists & oil patterns (www.amfbowling.com.au/tournaments) as well as view league standing sheets and vacancies. You can also access all TBA registered tournament entry forms via the TBA website (www.tenpin.org.au).
 
Fair enough Jordan, I understand your viewpoint and respect it.

A bit off subject now, I would like for you to come down to Randwick bowl on a Tuesday night. There is a doubles league there and I would like for you to see the state of the lanes and machines down the back. It has deteriorated rapidly over the last 10 years and not much has been done to rectify this. If you came down and actually took a look at our situation and maybe could try to help us out, myself and every other league bowler at Randwick would be grateful.

Please remember that before the centre was at Randwick, it was at Rushcutters Bay and it was the no 1 AMF centre in Australia in its day, a centre which hosted the AMF World Cup. To see what Rushcutters/Randwick has become is kinda sad.

Again thank you for your words on totalbowling and looking forward to hearing from you.
 
I think someone mentioned, earlier in this thread, that negative comments would bring negative responses... Mr Rogers has just outlined that as one his company's main reasons for ending sponsorship of this site...

Someone else also mentioned earlier that we should move away from the "What can they do for us?" mentality, to a "What can we do to make this sport more attractive?" mentality... Again Mr Rogers' post highlights this need for change...

Food for thought everyone... and, thanks to Mr Rogers for enlightening eveyone on AMF's decision...
Andrew Magill
 
Jordan after reading your post I do have a few things that I wish to say

Firstly what you have said is correct in that people have been bagging AMF from time to time but why would you use that as fuel to remove your sponsorship of the site with over 5000 active members it baffles me. It doesn’t matter what sport or organization it is there is always going to be slander thrown around I mean I see it first hand in drag racing but they don’t pull a sponsorship deal because of it they work with the people that say it to make the sport better and they have done that with A.N.D.R.A now having its own free to air TV show on a Saturday. Pulling a sponsorship deal from your customers that bowl in your centers isn’t the way to deal with this issue of slander or banter that is thrown around

secondly As you know Jordan I am a bowler that bowls in tournaments and in leagues in AMF centers may I ask as to why I know of people that are still waiting for prize money from the Brunswick Youth Cup back in December as the CEO is there an explanation for this because I know if I turned up to bowl in a tournament and said oh sorry I can’t pay the entry fee till next week or whenever I wouldn’t be allowed to bowl am I correct

Thirdly I have delt with you directly Jordan and I know that you are a smart intergllant Man that actually does want to do something with the sport of ten pin bowling which is more than I can say for some other people that are high up in some associations and I Have also seen what you have done within AMF and I personally think you have done a great job so far and I am sure you will contuie doing but I still ask Myself why Pull a sponsorship deal Because of some comments towards your company no matter what you are doing how good you are doing your job there are always going to be the negatives and they will outweigh the positives all the time. I am sure if the cost is the issue why not negotiate it with the powers at be TB is a great site and has great information and it is a shame to see AMF part ways I really think negotiations is the way to handle this

But this is just my thoughts as I would hate to see bowling be the loser here as it’s a huge part of mine and my family's life without it I would be lost

I do respect your opnion and I also respect the job that you do

Thanks Scott Fryer
 
Thank you Jordan for posting a reply on this site.

There are couple of points you mentioned in your post which I believe deserve further investigating and discussion.

For the past 2 years I have watched the site with particular interest in the chat space and how AMF Bowling is talked about. I have seen that AMF is held in very poor regard by the chat community, with a general perception that AMF Bowling is uninterested in the sport, only concerned with short term profits, only interested in the social bowler etc...

This 'chat' community to which you refer, is YOUR CUSTOMER, and not only should be held in high esteem regardless of their opinion, but should be listened to, as many of the posters on this site are lifetime bowlers will a long history in the sport. I myself have spent over 40 years as a 'serious' bowler, and in that time I've seen a number of corporations get involved in bowling centre operation. Unfortunately, with each unsuccessful venture into bowling centre management and ownership, the fallout has almost always meant that there are less bowling centres in which to bowl as closures almost always follow failure. If AMF really wants to be successful in seeing the return of bowling to an elevated status, then please don't cut advertising. Because when you stop advertising, you've given up hope of any growth.

It was my hope that we could attract more sponsorship money from consumer brands that would see value in being associated with elite tenpin bowling tournaments so that we could reduce the entry fees, broaden the formats and attract more participants by offering better prize money for the winners and those that place deeper down the field. To this end we engaged a Sponsorship Manager to talk to large consumer brands to see if we could attract say $50,000 per tournament. Unfortunately we have not been successful. We do not have a compelling enough model and market to attract meaningful sponsorship from outside the industry.

Thanks for trying, but why wasn't this concerted effort made know to the bowling community. A majority of the scratch tournament bowlers read and/or post on this site. I'm sure that some of that negativity to which you referred earlier would've been avoided if the bowlers actually had some idea that AMF was at least trying to make things better for the serious bowler.
 
particularly as we are now able to fulfil tournament entries & squad listings through our own website.

This might be a bad example and as i am posting this there may actually be a link now but... to where can we find the Squad list for AO and the Oiling pattern or even the entry form!
Also if it wasn't for total bowling i wouldn't have be able to put my name down for AO as the entry form on AMF was down (I did go there first) I think you guys should have looked at your tournament site b4 you pulled sponsorship perhaps!
 
Hi Jordan...Welcome to Total Bowling...

I am sure the bowlers will appreciate you finally having decided to keep them informed...Its with interest i note there are a few discrepancies between this post and our earlier correspondences with your General Manager Sales & Marketing...

Without boring the forum members with all the Admin details, i am sure they are, collectively, able to draw their own conclusions in this thread...

My conclusions have been emailed to you and are as follows...

Last year and the year before was the first time the site encouraged centres to advertise not only both Major and Minor Tournaments, but their Leagues, Skins and their payout schemes…I know of two leagues in particular in QLD Wednesday nights at Mt Gravatt and on Monday nights at Cannon Hill, that had over 55 league bowlers join each league and had added interest through the TB site, and sometimes even a waiting list…

I know this is only two but I can assure you this wouldn’t have happened without TB being able to get the word out there…I could link you too those threads in particular…I would imagine there is other states with similar figures, only I didn’t take notice as I only bowled in QLD…

I rarely agree with Wayne Chester, but I do agree with his response to your thread…This ”negative” tone or often “childish” content could have possibly been avoided had someone acted as a spokes person for AMF, and kept bowlers informed of what was going on, then perhaps half this wouldn’t have been posted…However our Admin Team are instructed to always remember, when moderating the threads, that these bowlers are also customers and as such are entitled to their opinions…

Goodwill could easily have been engendered had AMF used the opportunity of an open forum to maintain open lines of communication e.g. published a weekly news letter, updates, specials, questionnaires, and polls or simply just participated in some of the threads…

Regardless of your opinion these people ARE your customers…They pay your prices (wages in fact) to bowl leagues sometimes more than one in AMF centres…I have no idea what it is about bowlers but, they want to be made feel special, know what the hell is going on…I cannot answer questions if they have issues in AMF centres…Only AMF staff can do so…

Same as the thread that Andrew Tonkin has posted regarding waiting 4 months for a payout from a tournament he bowled in, in an AMF centre…None of this is caused by negative posts on TB, it caused by your people under your direction not doing their job properly which makes more work for my Admin and Mod staff on TB…

You must understand that the Money side of things here is not the issue…The issue is the fact that this will only widen the gap between AMF and the bowlers (your core business), resulting in leagues not filling and tournament numbers dropping even further or worse yet, tournaments not going ahead…

Fortunately none of this impacts on Total Bowling at all…

Regards
 
This might be a bad example and as i am posting this there may actually be a link now but... to where can we find the Squad list for AO and the Oiling pattern or even the entry form!
Also if it wasn't for total bowling i wouldn't have be able to put my name down for AO as the entry form on AMF was down (I did go there first) I think you guys should have looked at your tournament site b4 you pulled sponsorship perhaps!



You can find the squad listing on the AMF website as well as the oil pattern.
And whats wrong with calling the centre to place your entry.
Maybe you should think before posting. Perhaps
 
Clem,

What's easier, needing to find a phone number for the centre, calling the centre, someone answering saying what tournament, having to run off and interupt someone who does know what their talking about and then lodging your entry,

or,
placing your name on a website that can be accessed at the tournament directors leisure with sheet in hand ready to write the names down.

I know which I would prefer.
 
It’s Jordan Rodgers here, Chief Executive Officer of

For the past 2 years I have watched the site with particular interest in the chat space and how AMF Bowling is talked about.

This has to be the most disturbing part... 2 years watching...... wasn't it the start of the year that bowlers put a post up asking for information from anyone at AMF regarding SA cup entry forms etc and Australian Open forms etc? So the Chief operator has sat back read all of this and done nothing about a product that his company is selling????? Pretty good way to run a part of your business, especially when the customers were only asking polite questions! Who knows how many customers where lost in this period.

I agree with Tiger Bottomley. If anyone has ever had the experience of phoning to enter an Major tournament from this company over the phone the internet is definately the less stressful way.

For all the good things AMF do towards our game the little things that cost nothing (passing on information) seem to let them down.

Just my thoughts
 
One Postive for AMF is that there league standings are published on the web from all centres. Im impressed with that. Minor fact that not all states are updated regulary. But from a tournament director for state events where you need to verify averages might be a alright.
 
I agree with Wayne 100%.

AMF, listen to your customers.This is where the ear you have hears best! By removing your association with total bowling, your doing a Chopper Read and cutting your ears off!

I have worked in sales, marketing and been a business owner of the last 17 years of my working life and constantly hear from all walks of life that the customer is always right!

You need to understand that what discussions take place here, regardless of being negative critique or positive, it's healthy discussion, and by spongeing up that information, a business is far better positioned to provide service delivery to it's customers.

Whether you like it or not, to enhance the sport, league bowling IS your bread and butter so you put it, but your not making the right dough!

I stand by my open email earlier and for league and tournament bowling to survive in this country for years to come, the elite level needs to be promoted and this is the best venue to begin. By withdrawing from Totalbowlings available resource, your effectively severing the head from the beast and now the majors of our sport, the pedestal events in this country are going to further go down the gurgler than they already were.

Remember this, if you as CEO can't take negative feedback from here, ALL of which are CUSTOMERS paying for a service, then you are in the wrong job mate.

How disappointing a response! :(

Glad i don't bowl at an AMF centre at the moment, cause the independants, whilst don't always get it right, at least they are looking after bowlers best they can, and totalbowling.com is the best example of looking after the BOWLER in this sport by providing what is here, and without it, the sport wouldnt have what it has now, let alone the petty nothing it would be if left to the TBA and AMF.

Might sound blunt, but i think is so true.take it any way you all like, but that's the reality of it all. Well done Jase, for your continuous support of the sport we all love and shame on you at AMF for what you are doing killing the top of the tree, which will seep downwards and left unchecked could potentially destroy all tourney and league bowling in the future.

Very disappointing reply CEO.
 
You can find the squad listing on the AMF website as well as the oil pattern.
And whats wrong with calling the centre to place your entry.
Maybe you should think before posting. Perhaps

As i said i maybe saying what i did in vane and i was.. Oiling and squad listing are now on the site. As for the entry form i don't know as i am already on the list. What i said when i posted was valid and i did think about it! I also now stand corrected
 
Clem,

What's easier, needing to find a phone number for the centre, calling the centre, someone answering saying what tournament, having to run off and interupt someone who does know what their talking about and then lodging your entry,

or,
placing your name on a website that can be accessed at the tournament directors leisure with sheet in hand ready to write the names down.

I know which I would prefer.

God forbid. Where in the 21st century. Who said people dont want to live in the past.

Used to remember when entry form were out 3 months before the tournament when ATBA was around. Lucky if there out within a month before the tournament the last couple years.
 
Went to AMF site 2 days ago clicked on AO no info no times for squads no any-thing just how to pay:(
 
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