TotalBowling and AMF part ways...

[jockey]

This has to be the most disturbing part... 2 years watching...... wasn't it the start of the year that bowlers put a post up asking for information from anyone at AMF regarding SA cup entry forms etc and Australian Open forms etc? So the Chief operator has sat back read all of this and done nothing about a product that his company is selling????? Pretty good way to run a part of your business, especially when the customers were only asking polite questions! Who knows how many customers where lost in this period.

I agree with Tiger Bottomley. If anyone has ever had the experience of phoning to enter an Major tournament from this company over the phone the internet is definately the less stressful way.

For all the good things AMF do towards our game the little things that cost nothing (passing on information) seem to let them down.

Just my thoughts

Couldn't agree more Brian and Carl. My case in point was attempting to put my entry in today by AMF's now preferred method "phoning the centre" and being told that the Squad I wanted to enter was full while their website in front of me was showing only 8 entries in the Squad. I had to provide a number and the girl phoned me back and confirmed what I already knew and then accepted my entry which I might say that I then confirmed reluctantly. What a patheric way to run a new system? By the way if I wasn't in IT would not have known where to find the link to get to AO info on your website. If your going to implement something make it right guys!

I would like to point out to the CEO if he is still monitoring and hope he doesn't wait 2 more years to reply that criticism usually only comes when peeple are not getting what they want or are paying for.

Where do I start:

1. People behind the counter who don't know the first thing about bowling.
2. Managers that are stuck to inflexible rules which prevent them from stopping the million or so walk ins / walk outs that we leeague bowlers observe every year. Revenue lost possibly forever.
3. Unwarranted price increases every year with no improvement in service.

Should I go on.

Having bowled in AMF centres for 25 years I think I have the right to comment and criticise on an open forum. If this means you withdraw sponsorship from this site then I will apologise to Jason and TB for this but will not apologise to AMF who obviously take 2 years to act on business problems.

You say that leagues are important to AMF which we have known since year dot but everthing we observe in the centre, staff training levels, number of times we see social bowlers approached to guage league interest and league pricing levels all indicate the opposite.

Anyway I could go on and on but I think I have satisfied my venting needs for the day. I reiterate everyone elses sentiments when I say that withdrawing sponsorship because of posts on this forum just shows how out of touch with reality AMF realy is. Durrrrrr it is an open forum you are spoonsoring, so that means to explain to someone as if they are a four year old, that AMF like all other industry participants is open to criticism. For you to use this as an excuse to withdraw funding just really is pathetic as AMF knew what TB was when AMF entered into the original sponsorship deal.

 

[androooo]

I agree with Tiger Bottomley. If anyone has ever had the experience of phoning to enter an Major tournament from this company over the phone the internet is definately the less stressful way.

Trying to find ANYTHING out from the majority of the companies staff members over the phone, unless it's about a birthday party, or a lane booking, is like pulling teeth.

I've had more fun sitting in the dentists chair.

 

[GoTheCell]

1. AMF has access to a large number of bowlers across Australia through TB.

2. AMF chooses to ignore this opportunity, not participate, and let their own reputation get worse.

3. AMF chooses to remove any association with the site.


Seems to me like they people in admin with a few brain cells.

 

[taker]

Hi Jordan...Welcome to Total Bowling...

I am sure the bowlers will appreciate you finally having decided to keep them informed...Its with interest i note there are a few discrepancies between this post and our earlier correspondences with your General Manager Sales & Marketing...

Without boring the forum members with all the Admin details, i am sure they are, collectively, able to draw their own conclusions in this thread...

My conclusions have been emailed to you and are as follows...

Last year and the year before was the first time the site encouraged centres to advertise not only both Major and Minor Tournaments, but their Leagues, Skins and their payout schemes…I know of two leagues in particular in QLD Wednesday nights at Mt Gravatt and on Monday nights at Cannon Hill, that had over 55 league bowlers join each league and had added interest through the TB site, and sometimes even a waiting list…

I know this is only two but I can assure you this wouldn’t have happened without TB being able to get the word out there…I could link you too those threads in particular…I would imagine there is other states with similar figures, only I didn’t take notice as I only bowled in QLD…

I rarely agree with Wayne Chester, but I do agree with his response to your thread…This ”negative” tone or often “childish” content could have possibly been avoided had someone acted as a spokes person for AMF, and kept bowlers informed of what was going on, then perhaps half this wouldn’t have been posted…However our Admin Team are instructed to always remember, when moderating the threads, that these bowlers are also customers and as such are entitled to their opinions…

Goodwill could easily have been engendered had AMF used the opportunity of an open forum to maintain open lines of communication e.g. published a weekly news letter, updates, specials, questionnaires, and polls or simply just participated in some of the threads…

Regardless of your opinion these people ARE your customers…They pay your prices (wages in fact) to bowl leagues sometimes more than one in AMF centres…I have no idea what it is about bowlers but, they want to be made feel special, know what the hell is going on…I cannot answer questions if they have issues in AMF centres…Only AMF staff can do so…

Same as the thread that Andrew Tonkin has posted regarding waiting 4 months for a payout from a tournament he bowled in, in an AMF centre…None of this is caused by negative posts on TB, it caused by your people under your direction not doing their job properly which makes more work for my Admin and Mod staff on TB…

You must understand that the Money side of things here is not the issue…The issue is the fact that this will only widen the gap between AMF and the bowlers (your core business), resulting in leagues not filling and tournament numbers dropping even further or worse yet, tournaments not going ahead…

Fortunately none of this impacts on Total Bowling at all…

Regards

Dear Jordan
the above highlighted section of Jason's thread is preicesly the wednesday night league that i joined 2 years ago and i can tell you that i needed to change centres from my previous on because i as a customer was very upset with the way that centre treated me not to the fact that i bowled at the previous centre from when i started back in 2001 but also cause i worked there and due to employees mistreating me and making me feel unwelcome as a customer soon after i finished working there i found the info for the WEDNESDAY NIGHT ELITE SUPER SINGLES back in 2007 i signed up to the league thanks to it been posted up here on TOTALBOWLING

the only reason i would have any problems with AMF or say any bad things would be how when i worked for AMF was proud to wear the name and work for the company then when i had to leave th job cause i just finshed high school and got a apprenticeship and i became a customer once again i was very upset that the staff treated me differently and for those reasons i won't go back to the centre it not that your company is bad
but maybe the reason some ppl missue the AMF name could simply mean the have been mis treated of not been looked after by the centre staff
thats not to say it will always happen but it could happen

i aploigise for any incovience but i felt that the director of AMF should know my story from not only as a fellow employee but as a customer that always valued your company

YOUR SINCERLY
CHRIS THOMPSON

 

[CHIN]

I look forward to the next words of wisdom from the AMF CEO in 2011, 2013, 2015 etc.

 

[Aussie]

Only that long.LOL

 

[lordofthepins]

To Jordan Rogers CEO AMF Bowling....

Terry Silva posted:
Where do I start:

1. People behind the counter who don't know the first thing about bowling.
2. Managers that are stuck to inflexible rules which prevent them from stopping the million or so walk ins / walk outs that we leeague bowlers observe every year. Revenue lost possibly forever.
3. Unwarranted price increases every year with no improvement in service.
==========================================================

These are common every day complaints and observations, not isolated cases.... Customer service is vital... I feel at my centre, there is some fantastic staff service member, yet there is serious driftwood amongst them... They are killing your business, and you should be aware of this, as the people coming into your centre, pay for the lane and shoe rental (please can we just get rid of that altogether!! just a pet hate of mine) bowl there game or two with their kids and leave and come back for the following school holiday break possibly...

At my centre, we use to have a small pro shop with a coach/driller.. Great feeling walking in the doors, and even better for customer service and coaching.. Now, it is gone. I love watching the kids faces when they peer into the pro shop and they see all these fantastic odd coloured balls and bags. The kids imagination must run rampart...

Can you imagine the standard public golf club without a pro shop and golf pro on standby, I can't. yet it is good enough for my centre!! You can justify that this particular centre can't financially justify one, then train up your staff... There are too many of them that simply pick up their minimum wage per hour at the end of their shift, far too few who really, really care about bowling..

I would love to give you a comprehensive, yet fair assessment of a AMF centre that I bowl in privately although I do not wish to be the most hated man when i show my face as I walk in the door... If you are interested please PM me.. I hope you may take this seriously, I am not a stirrer or a compulsive complainer, its just with AMF's recent announcement and how I have been feeling of late, seems to be a good time to share ideas, not simply AMF bashing (which is too easy to do sadly).

I sincerely hope that AMF's decision to withdraw from this site has not been made on the basis of some posters here, as there are many who are overall happy for the most part with AMF.. Just don't forget to remember the tournament and elite bowlers, as AMF has sent them a pretty clear message.. Jordan, you should be working together with this site, and others to promote bowling..

Additional, most bowlers aren't even aware of their being a AMF bowling site, no promotion , no customer service and awareness.

Additional, when Belmonte won his and the Australian male bowlers first PBA tournament, what did my centre, and any other centre to recognise this fantastic achievement in the sport of bowling.. Nothing!! That is almost unforgivable...

Additonal, its hard with so many sports and other activites as consumers we have an infinite amount of choice of how we spend our cash, not to mention the financial global crises, which we are feeling now, and even more of the next year or so. With this in mind we have leagues bowlers joining up, and leaving within two-three months or so.. Why is that??? Sure it may not be what they were hoping for, yet most I'm guessing leave out of frustration, the feeling of not getting any better, the only help or service they get from YOUR staff is for them to hand over their credit card/cash to pay for their league bowling.


Look forward in hearing from you Jordan.
LOTP

I would sincerely love a response Jordan, either on this forum, or privately.. I'm sure you are still following this thread.

 

[scooba11]

I guess if you look at the trends in business acronyms AMF where always doomed to fail

NASA = Need Another Seven Astronauts
FORD = F**ked On Race Day
AMF = A Major Failure

HOLDEN = hang on lads damm engine nackered


FORD = FIRST ON RACE DAY

 

[peter56]

like what already has i think been stated bring back the A.T.B.A its amf's loss by leaving this site this is where bowling starts and finishes total bowling all the way

 

[$$Pricey$$]

This is an example of working at amf:
about a year ago i worked for amf *a certain centre* as a party host (dont even get me started on how bad that was). but i worked there for about six months with no problems when i had bowling tournys, family committments, etc. filling up my weekends for the next month or so.
no problem i thought and i let the manager know that i couldnt work for that period of time. well, every weekend that i was unavailable for i was called and asked to work which i had to refuse (and was followed by an angry sigh). after all of my weekends cleared up in a month or so and i went to check my shifts, to my surprise i had none. the manager refused to give me shifts until i let her know when i was available at least a month in advance (ridiculous when considering they call the night before) or i wouldnt get any shifts. i reluctantly completed this on a piece of paper and still didnt get any shifts as they lost it (obviously my fault?). then one morning i recieved a call from some **** i've never met before letting me know that i was fired because i wasnt accepting shifts when offered and i wasnt asking for shifts when i had left numerous messages requesting some work.


it is because of amf's shoddy employee and customer treatment as to why myself and alot of other bowlers badmouth the company. all of the bad comments made on these forums are due to poor service and treatment on the behalf of amf.
so instead of punishing totalbowling why not lift a few fingers to try and improve the quality of your centres.

speaking of moorabbin, the employee treatment there is so bad that even name removed (one of the nicest guys around) hated the manager(s) and packed up shop to move to boronia the first chance he could.

if only a major australian bowling organisation was moving in the right direction for the sport of bowling....
i wonder what that would be like?

 

[taker]

This is an example of working at amf:
about a year ago i worked for amf moorabbin as a party host (dont even get me started on how bad that was). but i worked there for about six months with no problems when i had bowling tournys, family committments, etc. filling up my weekends for the next month or so.
no problem i thought and i let the manager know that i couldnt work for that period of time. well, every weekend that i was unavailable for i was called and asked to work which i had to refuse (and was followed by an angry sigh). after all of my weekends cleared up in a month or so and i went to check my shifts, to my surprise i had none. the manager refused to give me shifts until i let her know when i was available at least a month in advance (ridiculous when considering they call the night before) or i wouldnt get any shifts. i reluctantly completed this on a piece of paper and still didnt get any shifts as they lost it (obviously my fault?). then one morning i recieved a call from some **** i've never met before letting me know that i was fired because i wasnt accepting shifts when offered and i wasnt asking for shifts when i had left numerous messages requesting some work.


it is because of amf's shoddy employee and customer treatment as to why myself and alot of other bowlers badmouth the company. all of the bad comments made on these forums are due to poor service and treatment on the behalf of amf.
so instead of punishing totalbowling why not lift a few fingers to try and improve the quality of your centres.

speaking of moorabbin, the employee treatment there is so bad that even name removed (one of the nicest guys around) hated the manager(s) and packed up shop to move to boronia the first chance he could.

if only a major australian bowling organisation was moving in the right direction for the sport of bowling....
i wonder what that would be like?

Gee that a similar story like myself but i was a mechanic working down the back and for me it wasn't a year ago this was back in 2005 and it was the employees that i worked with that made me leave the centre with the way i had been treated when i worked there and as a customer even more to the fact that the following year in 2006 i just bowled at the centre i previously worked at and it really upset me to think becoming an Ex empolyee you still get treated like crap when you entered the place that what makes upset about the way AMF has become

 

[CHIN]

Less effort involved to treat people like crap.

 

[krusty]

We can solve the cost cutting at AMF.
As I can see it the approx cost of TP may be around a dollar a day from each centre??
Jordan could you please have installed at all centres at least 1 pinball and maybe a couple of classics( wonderboy, galaga etc).
Since my return to bowling I have not put 1 dollar in the kids ticket machines and most of my time before and after bowling was pouring my hard earned into the pinnies.
Atleast 5 bucks a week from my pocket.
YOU THINK IM JOKING!? I want my games back.

 

[hamster]

Since AMF are now looking after posting results for "Their" events, why is it that they are still only showing qualifying and desperado results so far and the AO is in to game 2 of Stage 3 right at this moment?

Congratulations on keeping your customers up to date!!

Must be real hard to do considering the event is in a AMF center.

 

[Ian Nicholls]

Hi Tony

The TBA site has currently the AO Scores. The scores were delayed this morning in being posted. I am currently in Newcastle for the Junior Nationals and I was not able to update the scores while the Classic Cup was being completed. The scores are sent to me by email for posting to the TBA Website.

All the TBA Ranked events scores are posted on the TBA website (AMF or not AMF events).

 

[jason_doust]

Sad. Predictable and short-sighted, but sad.

The "social bowler focused" market perception Jordan speaks of must be disappointing. AMF's sponsorship of tournaments has been clearly present, but little has been done to communicate this commitment to the market. AMF must share in the blame of the failure to shift this percepton.

Actions speak louder than words and the actions happening by and large at the Centre and Regional Manager level do not speak of a commitment to tournament bowling. It's not hard to see why filthy approaches, dry (usually blocked) lanes, management & staff who don't bowl and centres that don't turn their lights on for weeks at a time while playing music at ear-damaging volume (a genuine H&S concern in some houses) doesn't engender any confidence in the bowler though. I've seen all this and much more at AMF houses. From where the bowler stands, it often feels like we're too much trouble and birthday parties don't care if there's tomato sauce on the approach.

I am so pleased to hear the CEO say that league bowling is AMF's bread and butter. Growth is important, but at the cost of retaining an existing customer base, AMF risks negative growth. How much energy is focussed on retaining existing bowlers? Some centres after discussion with bowlers, have implemented access to more affordable coaching game rates in off-peak times, which is commendable and I encourage and applaud that move on the basis of good business sense and a fair deal. At the centre level, we see some good work being done and in some houses, the opposite seems true as leagues are bumped for school bookings, outraging the league bowlers.

If AMF genuinely wish to reduce their advertising costs, they would focus on retaining their existing league and tournament bowler (subscription business) base. Social bowlers must be constantly attracted and that requires constant injections of money. While they are a premium sale and come with a premium cost of sale. At the very self-interested least, AMF should be paying attention to retaining the regular customer by building a solid relationship with them.

There are some AMF centres run by bowlers. We can tell when we walk into them. They are clean (immaculate in some cases) and the staff have a clue. They successfully buck the trend. By recent actions, AMF appear to be trying to shed experienced staff, hiring (quite nice) kids off the street and promoting internally trained managers with no industry experience outside the ideas and cult(ure) of AMF. Meanwhile they're apparently liquidating the company's real property assets, presumably to beef up the bottom line. (If there's another true explanation for those "For Sale by Tender" signs outside your local centre, I'd be pleased to be corrected.) In the 1980's this type of behaviour was called "corporate raiding". (Remember the film "Pretty Woman"?) Are MLE wringing their last pennies from the business, flogging it all off and moving on? Join the dots and Wayne Chester could be on the money when he suggests that what we'll see at the end of all this is less bowling centres.

The shareholders of MLE seem to be AMF's true customers and bowlers are a source of revenue with which to satisfy them. If you think bowers are demanding, try the greedy share traders willing to flog you off any second. AMF therefore seem to be pursuing a perceived better source of revenue based on the myopic view of "profit per line". They're in a tough spot but their behaviour looks like the sort of thing that that happens when performance incentives are based on short term outcomes. While ever people are incentivised like used car salesmen, they will behave like them or move on. Bad incentives drive bad behaviour and create concentrations of like-minded people who see no wrong with each other and therefore associate comfortably. Bowlers, where you see greed, politely point it out.

When AMF came on board as a proud sponsor, I was genuinely encouraged by the company's move. It made sense on a number of levels. Since then, AMF has been almost silent in addressing the concerns raised in these fora and has subsequently been perceived as uncaring. Pulling the sponsorship has been a cruel blow to that goodwill sadly left to whither on the vine. In a community this long-established, it takes a long time to build credibility, even longer to rebuild it, but not long to dash it. We've seen it before. Is this part of a planned progression to announce less tournaments next year? It's got that feel about it.

AMF has done this before. They'll do it again. If AMF wish to re-join the bowling community as more than a business, so be it. I for one, would welcome them back yet again.

They're great when they're around.

 

[tenpinyo]

Hows this for an example:

Just spoke to a friend who works at an unnamed centre....he was supposed to be running a bday party while there was a tournament being run...due to the lack of knowledge held by the more 'senior' staff...he was forced to help run the tournament due to his prior knowledge of the bowlers and wat was required for it to be successful...the party had asked for the disco lights to be turned on to which he had informed then that there was a tournament on...

he then found out today that a complaint had been made about his services....when he explained that the tournament wouldnt have run without his involvement he was plainly and clearly told that 'the bday party is more important'

Go amf!

 

[jason_doust]

Another happy story from the coalface, Joel...

So AMF are reducing costs. Would make sense if earnings were down...

Bowling division performance

Bowling delivers 25% increase in earnings

The bowling division recorded total revenues of $55.1 million, up 9.3% on the prior corresponding period. Earnings from the bowling division grew an exceptional 24.7% to $18.3 million against $14.6 million recorded in the prior corresponding period.

The bowling business has continued to exceed expectations, with strong performances from constant centres together with significant contributions from new centres that opened during the period.

On a constant centre basis, revenues increased 3.5% on the prior year while constant centre earnings increased by 7.7%. The success of new centres opened during the period and the impact of the biometric labour rostering system saw operating margins increase from 29% to 33.1%.

Bowling revenues for January 2009 totalled $9 million, up 0.8% on January 2008.

Source: http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/property/mle/portfolio/bowling_performance.htm

The sad part is that I believe AMF were turning the corner on the way they were being perceived by the market. They were on their way to a better place. Such a waste of an opportunity that was starting to pay social dividends.

 

[jockey]

Hey Jason

Thanks for posting those performance stats.

The biggest problem I can see is that Macquarie seem to be behind the eight ball by about six to 12 months on their promotion of bowling as both a sport and recreation. They seem to be adept at cost cutting without thoroughly investigating the long term inpact of the cuts which to me suggests poor management strategies. This is surprising for a company that seems to want to present itself as one to invest in if you want long term succesful returns. Why cut off what were starting to become very good roots (association with TotalBowling) in the long term promotion of the sport and also aid in promoting the recreation side for the sake of saving a few dollars?

 

[wchester]

Bowling division performance

On a constant centre basis, revenues increased 3.5% on the prior year while constant centre earnings increased by 7.7%. The success of new centres opened during the period and the impact of the biometric labour rostering system saw operating margins increase from 29% to 33.1%.

Source: http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/property/mle/portfolio/bowling_performance.htm

Big Brother has arrived!....
Do employees have to time their toilet breaks AS WELL?