The Bankstown Meeting and the Future of Tournament Bowling

[wchester]

Yes : there was a small discussion that took place - Tony Goodwin, AMF National Tournament Director, attended and was quite open in his discussion.

The main things we found out were :

2002 will see the AMF Super Six again, however one of the current events (Canberra) MAY be dropped from the schedule and replaced with another (possibly Sydney). AMF are also working towards breaking the tournaments up so that they would be spread out over a greater period of time. What we are still unsure of is AMF's infusion of money into the Super Six Tournaments.

This is all not confirmed as yet but was one of the issues AMF were discussing this week at a board meeting.

This brings about the main reason for the meeting. will tournament bowling grow or stagnate to the point of dying out completely. I feel that the time has come for all concerned to band together as one and investigate into what WE can do to ensure that tournament bowling has a healthy and prosperous future. Thanks to all who contributed ideas on possible format changes as well as to those of you who have shown concern for the future of bowling as an elite sport in Australia.
What I can envision is a calendar of 15 major events spread throughout the capital cities, all sponsored by one blanket benefactor company such as Qantas, Ansett, Coca Cola etc. Perhaps with an additional sponsorship from the Casinos in each of the cities. Would you be willing to stay at the participating sponsor's hotel/casino if it meant an influx of thousands of dollars into the prize fund? I know I would!

These and other ideas are now being drawn up and hopefully, with your participation, we will be able to begin planning for the year 2003.

All comments, criticism and or ideas are greatly appreciated.

Wayne Chester

 

[Matt Francis]

Food for thought

We have been talking about saving our game and increasing the number of bowlers who participate in the National Tournaments. People have given many ideas on new formates.
Let's stop and listen to the people who think about bowling but dont enter for some reason. What stops them for entering?

Do we mix the tournament year up with different short and long formats

 

[vi]

Hi ppls,

One area that AMF should improve on so that more bowlers are aware of such tournaments is better communication and distribution of such information. I bowled in Victoria and visited every metro centres and notice through the years how you enter each centre and see what's there. One thing missing is a display board or such like. If they have a board to just pin up entry forms or information on tournaments where bowlers entering can see. Bowlers do take notice of events upcoming if they are aware there are such things happening. I know most centre just place their forms or sheets on top of the counters or some other places in the centre. Some people just don't make the effort to browse to those areas unless they need to talk to the people behind the counter or such like. Does it really cost that much to have a display board in each centre ?

One good area by AMF is the re-establishment of the newsletter and there is mention of the Super 6 Circuit in there. Yes you know about it in the newsletter but I haven't seen many centres with entry forms for such tournaments. The only entry form I seen lately was the NSW Open. Didn't see the ones for prior tournaments. Not sure if AMF use their same channel for their national tournaments such as Singapore No Tap, Triplex, etc. If they do then the entry forms and such information should be at centres for bowlers to see. Where is it breaking down

?

In the past Moorabbin was pretty good at providing such info to their bowlers. Haven't been down there lately so not sure if it still is (since they change management).

I got other points in the other topic in this section - Super 8 Series (topic title). I'm sure you see other bowlers views and opinions there as well

.

Vi

 

[philby]

Wayne maybe a division for local bowlers. i.e. bowlers that wont to challenge the best but cant afford to bowl all 6 tornaments. Maybe a separate final for bowlers with ave under 180 or something similiar. Im sure there are 100s of bowlers in each state who would love the challenge the best but dont because they know they have no chance to cash. Im sure there are many people whoi could come up with a format that would satisfie these bowlers

 

[bfcc]

hi all , how about a small handicap division to promote tournament bowling in the centre were the event is being held keep it cheap so the locals can afford it and it would also give them a chance to bowl with the big boys.
lets say we get 20 bowlers in the handicap division they bowl 12 games handicap pinfall payout 1-2.

 

[Hippy??]

My thoughts on why numbers are down at tournaments.


Get the scores down to a reasonable level. Lets face it , we are not that good. Bowling used to be a challenge , not just a buy the latest peice of gear , stand left and chuck it right and complain and whinge if you had to move a few boards.

As for the prize funds and entry fees I don't think that they are all that bad. The only thing that I think could be improved for the moment is that they are top heavy. If you take tournaments at all seriously then you have to take into account your breakeven point. Mackay is a good example of this. They are going to pay out $8000 in their tournament. Good on them , I hope it runs well , but as a Brisbane bowler my breakeven point would be about $400 so I would have to finish at least in the top five. This isn't taking into account time off work either. Add to this that I have been told that it is a lefties centre(this is not a whinge against lefties it is just what Iv'e heard) then I'm going to be playing golf that weekend. This situation is even worse when travelling interstate , especially when you get there and don't have the latest bit of gear to knock the pins down for you.

My other point is not going to go over too well with some of you out there but I'm sure I'll get over it. We in this country are amatuer bowlers. Weekend warriors. When we play against professionals we lose. Not all the time but more often than not they will win. This is not a bad attitude but the fact of the matter. So the upshot of that is that I am at a distinct disadvantage when I play against a profesional. So I don't want to risk my money in this situation. So why am I expected to bowl against sponsored bowlers. They should be banned or at least handicapped in some way so I will feel that I have some sort of chance. In these days of carry contests everywhere I cannot hope to compete with these fortunate ones if I cannot afford to go and buy a new ball every 3-4 weeks ,and I can't. What hope do I have in this situation.

This is not a GO at any of the sponsored bowlers out there ,so only get a little bit offended , but I think it is the way of things.

Please feel free to tell me why I am wrong and all the rest of it but the fact remains that I can't keep on buying new gear all the time so I am getting further behind all the time , so my money stays in my pocket.

 

[Roysa]

Was this really August 2001 ....?

Could be April 2013 and who would know the difference.

 

[Geoff300]

Same S@#T different day mate

 

[Roysa]

You said "shot" of course Geoff?

Thought so.

 

[Geoff300]

You said "shot" of course Geoff?

Thought so.

LOL Yeah mate right in the pocket !!!!!

 

[Docta]

What is really sad is that this was 10 years ago and nothing has changed, who do we have to thank for this?

 

[Mistagear]

What is really sad is that this was 10 years ago and nothing has changed, who do we have to thank for this?

Us / We are / it's our fault.
Will someone dig up this thread in another 10yrs and be asking the same question ?

It's getting late, it's time "We" came up with a bold plan to address some of these problems which have held bowling back as a sport.
Poor tournament numbers are a direct result of problems at the base level of our sport. Fix the base level and you fix the top level

 

[Docta]

Us / We are / it's our fault.
Will someone dig up this thread in another 10yrs and be asking the same question ?

It's getting late, it's time "We" came up with a bold plan to address some of these problems which have held bowling back as a sport.
Poor tournament numbers are a direct result of problems at the base level of our sport. Fix the base level and you fix the top level​

well said mistaker but does anybody out there have the silver bullet? I guess the first stage is to acknowledge that there is a problem, I believe by the number of post regarding this issue, we all agree that there is a problem but where to now is the question?.

 

[Roysa]

What is really sad is that this was 10 years ago and nothing has changed

That was my point.

 

[nev25]

SIDE NOTE

I find this disturbing
hmmm correct me if I'm wrong

But doesn't AMF refuse to support the TBA in any way
(Tournament's, membership drive, The bowling show etc)

.

 

[Mistagear]

I've mentioned on another thread that, TBA has to be part of the essentials of bowling competition. As things stand and have done since the beginnings of bowling in this country, the individual bowling proprietors own the venue and they are the ones who turn social players into league players.
The bowl also provides the league by being the organizer. Any association of bowlers (TBA) is not an essential part of making bowling a sport.
TBA is purely an extra, they accredit coaches but then dont offer a program to the bowling centres to teach bowling, they leave that up to the bowl to seek out a coach and again, the bowling centre owner is the organizer of and coaching.

TBA needs to create a pilot program is a small test market where they approach a centre with a package of benefits where TBA volunteers have sign on days, membership drives, coaching clinics. TBA then needs to organize several day and night leagues from within their own members, negotiate a contracted game price for each competition and generally approach the centre in a cordial business like manner to negotiate a business deal in the vein that TBA members want to bowl in their own competitions.
This is one way where TBA can start to become part owner of the sport.

Currently it is totally on the bowling centre to organize this, and rightfully there is little reason to have a bowler organization and is totally dependent on the generosity of the centre to include TBA.

TBA has to do things at the base level to be a party in ownership of the sport. This does not happen except at national championship level .

 

[Robin Hood]

Why do we as bowlers leave the blame at the feet of TBA. Don't get me wrong, I do not believe TBA do enough for for the general league bowler, however; we as bowlers are also failing. Lets look at it:
Poor numbers at tournaments - Why, because bowlers of today do not play any tournament for fun or prestege, they play for money. If the money is not theren nor are the top players.
Club Loyalty - Not in this sport. Now I don't mean we should not bowl at other centers but we should be a club member at one center and represent that center when ever possible. Who out of our good bowlers play penants for a club yet alone do it for a number of years. This problem starts at junior level. Our juniors, with adult backing, move from one team to another in local tournaments and without even bowling in that center at times. And this has been at the expense of some bowler who are bowling at the center.
Club Championships - A thing of the past. If we look at other individual sports like Tennis and Golf, there is real prestege in being the Club Champion. Those players will play at more then one venue but they are proud to say what club they come from.
I am a believer that we need a governing organisation, TBA, and I believe in compulsory membership for all league players. I will also go further and say maybe we need to start to manage our costings like Golf. Membership should be XX dollars for the year. This will give you substantially reduced bowling fees in that center. IE $2 games in and out of league. Any visitor playing will need to pay full cost. Rough thoughts:

Full Club Membership: $500.00 pa (TBA $30, Club Championships $50, Center running costs $420)
Members gets all games for $2 per game.
Lets say a center charges $5 per game. Member pays $2 each game they then have 140 games before they break even. (a 3 game league for 44 weeks equals 140 games. Break even point.) Those that either have a blind or quit are in benefit of the center. All practice games are $2 so the player is in front. The center may get bowlers in side the door more often. Once inside, encourage the canteen usage. That is where the profit will be. Subway and Maccas don't make money on rolls and burgers, they make it on the other stuff like drinks, cookies and coffee.
Your club holds a Tourny you pay $2 per game, visitors pay $5. encourages players to support their club and to practice more. Players may be a member of several clubs but they would be secondary members and pay running costs only. Not entitled to represent the club and only entitled to $2 games in league.

This may not work but I hope it encourages some conversation.

 

[Troyza]

SIDE NOTE

I find this disturbing
hmmm correct me if I'm wrong

But doesn't AMF refuse to support the TBA in any way
(Tournament's, membership drive, The bowling show etc)

.

This is false. The centers I bowl in encourage bowlers to sign up, or else their league cannot be sanctioned.

 

[nev25]

This is false. The centers I bowl in encourage bowlers to sign up, or else their league cannot be sanctioned.

You Obviously not in Victoria Then


And why was the TenPin Bowling show no allowed to Film in a AMF centre a while ago (because if it TBA support???)

.

 

[Dougy]

SIDE NOTE

I find this disturbing
hmmm correct me if I'm wrong

But doesn't AMF refuse to support the TBA in any way
(Tournament's, membership drive, The bowling show etc)

.

I will also have to say false. Here on the goldy AMF is quiet happy for me to run tournaments sign up days for juniors where they play free for a game or two. The only thing i am up agaist is school holdays witch i cant have tournaments.

Its about getting in there meeting your GM for the area and sitting down with them and explaining what the sport needs and wat the centre gets in return. With us the name of AMF Robina will be all over the news and in papers very soon wen we do a media release for the tourament, now that has been done by myself not AMF or the centre. I think bowlers need to stop looking at the centres to do the work cause right now it not working, u want ghe sport to grow and etc well take charge and do something about it your self, got something on pick up the fone get your local paper there, ring up the local radio station or ring up the local news for TV.

Not every staff memeber that works in a bowling centre is a bowler or is bowling minded its just a job for them even higher up the chain its the same so thats when we come in teach them, like i said get to know your GM for your centre cause going straight to the top shows your passion and it by passes the centre manager who is just to lazy or not interested in it.