R
rynzeski
terry parsalidis said:
That's a good deal... Is it open to all Interdistrict players or Chester Hill reps only??? I wonder if Parramatta centre have similar deals
The Future of Bowling in Australia
- Thread starter krdavis
- Start date
That's a good deal... Is it open to all Interdistrict players or Chester Hill reps only??? I wonder if Parramatta centre have similar deals
T
terry parsalidis
the $2 deal & discounts r 4 cheso reps only sorry, but u pay $4 if u bowl league at chester hill
SNEEZY said:Hi there All
Maybe AMF or TBA should devise some sort of card that is aimed at those bowlers that bowl regularly in higher level tournaments for example - super six, state and national championships, etc. Maybe setup something like setting a minimum number of tournaments per year for example which make a bowler eligible to obtain the Card. Those that have this card may for example get a game rate at $2.00 a game or something when practicing
If this was to happen then the Centre(s), AMF and TBA would come out winners as those bowlers would practice more as they would have a lower game rate. Further to that tournaments Such as the Super Six and other higher level tournaments may or should get a higher participation rate as bowlers are bowling in tournaments to try and get this card to offer heavily discounted game rates or are bowling to keep the card and because of the cheaper rate they can save a little more money to go in such events.
Just a suggestion
THANKS
DAVID SNIEDZE
Here you go - a Good idea ! ... This is exactly what the PBA in the USA do, their members get (amongst other things):
* $1 practice games at 'selected' centres
* Advanced notice on equipment before it is available to the public, and often receive offers to purchase direct from the manufacturer at reduced prices
Maybe some (or all) of the centres could get together to offer similar incentives - in return the PBA could provide them with local 'Tournament' bowlers in their area so then can direct market to ! - After all it's these bowlers who are likely to buy large numbers of high end balls not just a once in a life time plastic. They are the ones who will stand in an empty center bowling game after game after game, day after day... These are the big ticket bowlers..
SNEEZY
Member
Its a pitty that members of TBA don't read this forum. Afterall if they did then they may be more informed and be able to relay some of the ideas bowlers put on this website back to TBA. Then something may get done, the problem with this idea is that unfortunately someone will have to monitor it.
Just my thoughts.
DAVID SNIEDZE
Just my thoughts.
DAVID SNIEDZE
R
roil
Yes it is a pity that some people in some organisations don't read this forum because it is in their interest to do so.
It may be that one day a father and son of NSW (AMF) group may listen to what is really happening.
People have been writing to this pair and guess what the answer was ........come on have a guess
rates in NSW will stay the same, and basically don't bother us..
It is great to see the independents taking an interest in the "FUTURE OF BOWLING IN AUSTRALIA" because AMF and their parent MLE aren't.
Good luck to all the Independents and after what has already been said hopefully they will see a greater patronage this year
It may be that one day a father and son of NSW (AMF) group may listen to what is really happening.
People have been writing to this pair and guess what the answer was ........come on have a guess
rates in NSW will stay the same, and basically don't bother us..
It is great to see the independents taking an interest in the "FUTURE OF BOWLING IN AUSTRALIA" because AMF and their parent MLE aren't.
Good luck to all the Independents and after what has already been said hopefully they will see a greater patronage this year
little lefty legend
Member
i commend rob in melbourne also, along with everyone else- it is people like you who are keeping bowling going for us pros. you are the benchmark for all other centres,
a centre really wouldnt loose that much from a deal like this, considering they will get the money back when we bowl tourneys, league, and social with friends.
iam not expecting amf to start doing this very soon, but the private companies really have an opourtunity to expand there mark from the social bowler to the league and tourney bowler, let amf continue to have there parties and be social but let the private companies take the other end of the scale, they will be making the same sort of money, because they will have that many tourney and league bowlers using the offer.
and has anyone elses centre been giving free games to the public???
a centre really wouldnt loose that much from a deal like this, considering they will get the money back when we bowl tourneys, league, and social with friends.
iam not expecting amf to start doing this very soon, but the private companies really have an opourtunity to expand there mark from the social bowler to the league and tourney bowler, let amf continue to have there parties and be social but let the private companies take the other end of the scale, they will be making the same sort of money, because they will have that many tourney and league bowlers using the offer.
and has anyone elses centre been giving free games to the public???
B
bon316
There are a few themes going through this thread.
1) Does AMF have a good business plan?
2) Should that fella get cheap games?
3) Should tournament bowlers do more for the sport?
1) I personally dont believe they do have a good plan. At the moment there seems to be a lot of "leisure money" around so it would be right to cash in on that but to build a business like bowling around that market doesnt make sense. The price of petrol only needs to go up 10c and most families lose $1000 a year - where do they take that money from - entertainment.
The prices charged dont encourage return business - 2 kids, 2 adults - $50+ for less than an hours entertainment is not good value. Bowling becomes a "special" outing rather than a regular family outing. (once or twice a year instead of 6 or 7)
Like the pro shops - AMF will find that if they continue to overcharge customers will go elsewhere.
So the other approach is to cut costs. Using cheaper equipment - for example - using synthetic approaches - I personally know a lady who slipped on a synthetic approach and broke a hip - 3 years later she still has trouble walking but hey look at how much AMF saved by not using wood. Tell you what - if I ever get injured slipping on synthetic approaches I know who is going to get the bill. In this day and age, with risk assessments becoming commonplace there will be many organisations that will consider the risk of injury due to falls and slipping too high.
Another way to cut costs - less staff - we all appreciate the waiting around in banks dont we. Mum and dad, with their 3 very impatient kids are really going to appreciate this arent they. Will they be back?
Their soundest business plan would be to develop repeat business. League bowlers turn up week after week without thinking - petrol goes up 10c - doesnt matter its bowling night, synthetic approaches - put up with it, waiting around for service - well they are used to it by now.
AMF would say they are only worth half of what a social bowler is worth.
Why is it better to build league. 1 league bowler is worth more than 25 social bowlers. A league bowler bowls 150 games a year at approx $5 per game = $750 per year. 25 social bowlers bowling 50 games (2 each) at $10 = $500.
For a league of 30 people, AMF would need to find a pool of 750 social bowlers to match the turnover each year. Better off looking after their league bowlers I reckon - much better business sense.
2) Should that fella get games for $2 each?
I understand that it costs about $2 to provide a game. If he can get it good luck to him. $4 sounds really good though and that is pretty much standard for practice games.
What I do want to address here is the point he made about having 6 balls undrilled just in case. 6 spare bowling balls, and his own ball rack - this is one of the issues that has really destroyed tournaments - what shot do I bowl on this lane - 3rd arrow - what shot do I bowl on any lane - 3rd arrow - just find a ball that will hit the pocket from there - I got 8 of em here one should do it. Great if you can afford it - one of the very best things they could do for tournaments is to take wealth out of it and limit bowlers to 2 or 3 balls for the whole tournament.
3) Should tournament bowlers do more for the sport?
Most of them do heaps for bowling, coaching, encouraging, passing on hand me down balls to kids, the odd tip etc.
Should they do more for their home centre?
If it goes both ways - if the local centre does a bit for them - yes.
1) Does AMF have a good business plan?
2) Should that fella get cheap games?
3) Should tournament bowlers do more for the sport?
1) I personally dont believe they do have a good plan. At the moment there seems to be a lot of "leisure money" around so it would be right to cash in on that but to build a business like bowling around that market doesnt make sense. The price of petrol only needs to go up 10c and most families lose $1000 a year - where do they take that money from - entertainment.
The prices charged dont encourage return business - 2 kids, 2 adults - $50+ for less than an hours entertainment is not good value. Bowling becomes a "special" outing rather than a regular family outing. (once or twice a year instead of 6 or 7)
Like the pro shops - AMF will find that if they continue to overcharge customers will go elsewhere.
So the other approach is to cut costs. Using cheaper equipment - for example - using synthetic approaches - I personally know a lady who slipped on a synthetic approach and broke a hip - 3 years later she still has trouble walking but hey look at how much AMF saved by not using wood. Tell you what - if I ever get injured slipping on synthetic approaches I know who is going to get the bill. In this day and age, with risk assessments becoming commonplace there will be many organisations that will consider the risk of injury due to falls and slipping too high.
Another way to cut costs - less staff - we all appreciate the waiting around in banks dont we. Mum and dad, with their 3 very impatient kids are really going to appreciate this arent they. Will they be back?
Their soundest business plan would be to develop repeat business. League bowlers turn up week after week without thinking - petrol goes up 10c - doesnt matter its bowling night, synthetic approaches - put up with it, waiting around for service - well they are used to it by now.
AMF would say they are only worth half of what a social bowler is worth.
Why is it better to build league. 1 league bowler is worth more than 25 social bowlers. A league bowler bowls 150 games a year at approx $5 per game = $750 per year. 25 social bowlers bowling 50 games (2 each) at $10 = $500.
For a league of 30 people, AMF would need to find a pool of 750 social bowlers to match the turnover each year. Better off looking after their league bowlers I reckon - much better business sense.
2) Should that fella get games for $2 each?
I understand that it costs about $2 to provide a game. If he can get it good luck to him. $4 sounds really good though and that is pretty much standard for practice games.
What I do want to address here is the point he made about having 6 balls undrilled just in case. 6 spare bowling balls, and his own ball rack - this is one of the issues that has really destroyed tournaments - what shot do I bowl on this lane - 3rd arrow - what shot do I bowl on any lane - 3rd arrow - just find a ball that will hit the pocket from there - I got 8 of em here one should do it. Great if you can afford it - one of the very best things they could do for tournaments is to take wealth out of it and limit bowlers to 2 or 3 balls for the whole tournament.
3) Should tournament bowlers do more for the sport?
Most of them do heaps for bowling, coaching, encouraging, passing on hand me down balls to kids, the odd tip etc.
Should they do more for their home centre?
If it goes both ways - if the local centre does a bit for them - yes.
little lefty legend
Member
it would seem that we have summed this thread up,
yes amf need to focus more on the league bowler and also on there service to the bowler in general.
now what we really need to do is get this to amf, let them see what the bowling public thinks of there new buisiness plan.
pros are contributing its just everything seems to be coming back to the centre and iam NOT blaming all centres, there are many independant centres out there who should be appluaded for there effort to help juniors and adults alike improve there game and charge a fair rate, but yet again we come back to amf and there plan of the "social bowler"
unfortunately there seems no quick resolution to this, amf wants turnover and they want it from a specific source, centres want turnover too, but they arnt gonna get it from giving out cheap games, there are the odd centre doing this and these are the ones that are going to be doing well in the near future, but as amf is the main centre in australia, dontexpect cheap games soon
yes amf need to focus more on the league bowler and also on there service to the bowler in general.
now what we really need to do is get this to amf, let them see what the bowling public thinks of there new buisiness plan.
pros are contributing its just everything seems to be coming back to the centre and iam NOT blaming all centres, there are many independant centres out there who should be appluaded for there effort to help juniors and adults alike improve there game and charge a fair rate, but yet again we come back to amf and there plan of the "social bowler"
unfortunately there seems no quick resolution to this, amf wants turnover and they want it from a specific source, centres want turnover too, but they arnt gonna get it from giving out cheap games, there are the odd centre doing this and these are the ones that are going to be doing well in the near future, but as amf is the main centre in australia, dontexpect cheap games soon
Hi
our centre is looking at a per month fee for registered bowlers, and allowing up to three games per day. not sure what the monthly fee will be, doing some simple math. centres are open about 363 days per year
363 x 3 = 1089 games per year
$90.00 per month = about $1.00 per game
$100.00 per month = about $1.10 per game
if management charge less than that it geta to below a $1.00 per game
i would assume there would be some conditions on the deal but sounds good
aj
our centre is looking at a per month fee for registered bowlers, and allowing up to three games per day. not sure what the monthly fee will be, doing some simple math. centres are open about 363 days per year
363 x 3 = 1089 games per year
$90.00 per month = about $1.00 per game
$100.00 per month = about $1.10 per game
if management charge less than that it geta to below a $1.00 per game
i would assume there would be some conditions on the deal but sounds good
aj
Mankind_280
I've converted #stormnation
Hi Allenj, which centre is this???
Hi all
Kelmscott tenpin bowl, an independant cetre in Western Australia phone 08 9399 4400. dont know how it might work, . maximum price would be between $1.50 to $2.00 a game, hopefully could be less than that. Difficult to keep track of games if bought in large blocks over a month or so, daily quotas may be the way to go what do you guys think
aj
Kelmscott tenpin bowl, an independant cetre in Western Australia phone 08 9399 4400. dont know how it might work, . maximum price would be between $1.50 to $2.00 a game, hopefully could be less than that. Difficult to keep track of games if bought in large blocks over a month or so, daily quotas may be the way to go what do you guys think
aj
Mankind_280
I've converted #stormnation
I dont know about you allenj but I dont think I could make it to a centre everyday so i get the most out of the monthly card.
Maybe say heres 90 games.... give them a card or a stamp or something..... tell them have have this calender month to use it... if not they are foreited..... then get a new one every month..... that way i could come in a bowl my 22 games or so a week in 1 oe 2 sessions instead of 3 a day..... The price of fuel... going there everyday... it'll add up........ not saying 3 a day is a bad idea.... just not convienient... but if that was all you could offer (3 a day) I'd take it and try my best to use it
James
Maybe say heres 90 games.... give them a card or a stamp or something..... tell them have have this calender month to use it... if not they are foreited..... then get a new one every month..... that way i could come in a bowl my 22 games or so a week in 1 oe 2 sessions instead of 3 a day..... The price of fuel... going there everyday... it'll add up........ not saying 3 a day is a bad idea.... just not convienient... but if that was all you could offer (3 a day) I'd take it and try my best to use it
James
Practice cards similar to those which have been offered at Strikezone AMF should be made available in all AMF centres. THese practice cards cost $500 in 2005 and entitled the bowler to up to 7 games a day 365 days per year. Practice cards are a source of immediate income to AMF for no outlay. By introducing Practice cards AMF would be seen to be fostering bowling in AUstralia as their web page states. I believe there is a huge demand for practice cards amongst those out there who see b owling as their chosen competitive sport and those who strive to improve their skills. THose b owlers who compete at intercentre, state and national level.
Please feel free to contact me to view responses and my letter. Many of us are spending thousands of $ each year in AMF centres and after all we are their bread and butter. Social bowlers come and go depending on the weather. If only 10 practice cards are sold in each centre and I am sure there would be more AMF's immediate return is around $180k.
Concerned
Please feel free to contact me to view responses and my letter. Many of us are spending thousands of $ each year in AMF centres and after all we are their bread and butter. Social bowlers come and go depending on the weather. If only 10 practice cards are sold in each centre and I am sure there would be more AMF's immediate return is around $180k.
Concerned
Mankind_280
I've converted #stormnation
I whole heartly agree with concerned.... that would be a fantasic idea... I'd even pay 1000 for it.
Brunswick Tech
Banned
The issussing of annual membership cards has been trialled several times over the last couple of decades, all with disasterous effects, from memory the last time it was used they were offerring silver, gold and platinium cards, which allowed the purchaser to eithier a unlimited or restricted number of games per day, week, month or year depending on the card purchased.
It has long since been a capability of centres with computer scoring to incorporate a frequent bowler reward or membership card program, the first fully blown computer scoring system from the early 80's, the AMF accu-score indeed had a computer program to cater for such events.
The membership card promotion, failed miserably, the majority of people who purchased these cards were league bowlers who practised regulary anyway, they insured they got their moneys worth from their membership card.
When the figures were calculated, it was found that not enough cards were sold and not enough cards were used on a less frequent basis to offset the high useage of the regular bowlers, thus, the cost of cheaper game rates, the majority of card holders were bowling games for well below the current cheapest game rate, some bowlers were reported to be bowling games for less than a $1 per game.......clearly these prices could not be sustained by any centre.
To make matters worse, their was also no notable increase from other revenue sources, the snackbar, bowling equipment and bar sales showed no increase.............it was lose:lose proposition for the bowling establishments.
All the computer scoring sytems of today, Qubica (now part owned by AMF), Biggs (computa-score) and AMF have the capabilities to run a frequent bowler or annual membership program with their computer system, however not many, if any use this function.
IMO it would be a foolish move by a brave company to try and sell membership cards for Tenpin bowling.................unless the bowling industry can turn things around, and in a hurry, I just can't see it happening.
It has long since been a capability of centres with computer scoring to incorporate a frequent bowler reward or membership card program, the first fully blown computer scoring system from the early 80's, the AMF accu-score indeed had a computer program to cater for such events.
The membership card promotion, failed miserably, the majority of people who purchased these cards were league bowlers who practised regulary anyway, they insured they got their moneys worth from their membership card.
When the figures were calculated, it was found that not enough cards were sold and not enough cards were used on a less frequent basis to offset the high useage of the regular bowlers, thus, the cost of cheaper game rates, the majority of card holders were bowling games for well below the current cheapest game rate, some bowlers were reported to be bowling games for less than a $1 per game.......clearly these prices could not be sustained by any centre.
To make matters worse, their was also no notable increase from other revenue sources, the snackbar, bowling equipment and bar sales showed no increase.............it was lose:lose proposition for the bowling establishments.
All the computer scoring sytems of today, Qubica (now part owned by AMF), Biggs (computa-score) and AMF have the capabilities to run a frequent bowler or annual membership program with their computer system, however not many, if any use this function.
IMO it would be a foolish move by a brave company to try and sell membership cards for Tenpin bowling.................unless the bowling industry can turn things around, and in a hurry, I just can't see it happening.
lordsan
Member
Bowling in australia is growing which is what we need to make it a major sport. However in my opinion the price that games are chraged out at is hindering the sport, the price of games is very expensive yet with all this money going into the centers its not going to the sport. For example The Brisbane Region Circuit last year, good tournement but the overall complaint was no where near enough oil. And the prize funds kept getting cut when they didnt get the bowlers. Out of the circuit everyone paid $120 entry and first was only $600, alot of bowlers i spoke to said that they would have bowled if the prize money was more. So with prize money being low and conditions being not so great tournemnt bowling in QLD is losing it potential.
Thats just my opinion.
Thats just my opinion.
T
terry parsalidis
what do other sports have like tennis and golf, but we don't answer exposure on tv and radio media, i assume the money they make in their sports goes back to junior development and tv telecasts and radio advertisement, I know it would cost alot of money to show tornaments on tv but it is a shame to see our sport, which is one of the highest participating sports in the world not taking full advantage of the junior market out there we must expose the tornaments in australian living rooms to help our future of the sport
nev25
-
If I can put my 2 cents worth in
The bottom line is all centres have to make money thats it - no ifs buts or maybes
And there are a lot of centres closeing
In a thead in this forum somewhere else it was stated that there is more money to the centre in social bowlers not league
As stated previously this may not be true
But I'm sure most League bowlers will turn up every week to bowl in the leagues but social bowlers need to be encouraged
So is it true they are better looked after (to an extent)?
Here in Morwell they tried things like changing the end of the centre the league bowlers bowl so the social bowlers would be bowling in front of the snack bar.
The Idea was so they would put money across the snack bar being so close.
I recently attended a course that had a guest lecturer that was some big Melbourne business guru and he stated
:-McDonald's don't sell food they sell Toys?
:-Harvey Norman don't sell Electrical goods They Sell FINANCE-
Maybe AMFs plans is to sell party's (Its all business strategy's)
Here at Morwell they do do bulk game buys but I'm not sure what they are
We all get 2 games for $6 on a Sunday night
IMO what we need to do is to get more league Bowlers
The more league bowers the more regular income the better deals that can be stuck
I personally believe the whole bowling sport is focused at the elite and the Juniors Not the middle league bowlers (those with averages 100 to 160)
I believe these should be offered more encouragements in the way of tournaments for bowlers with an average of under 150 - More coaching sessions etc for example !!!
I notice at Moorabin bowl they have a night for social bowler to bowl a free game with basic coaching
The intention is to sign them up to a leagues
And we need to some how lift the profile of the sport in general
(Maybe Lobby government to inject more money into bowling)
I was a bit surprise that the world masters prize purse was only $30,000us
Compare this to the prize of an international golf tournament of the same caliber
Just My 2 Cents worth
BTW_has anyone checked out the prices of the bowling lanes at crown casino in Melbourne
Even though I don't believe its a real centre
Shoe hire is something like $10
Lane Hire is some silly high fee
The bottom line is all centres have to make money thats it - no ifs buts or maybes
And there are a lot of centres closeing
In a thead in this forum somewhere else it was stated that there is more money to the centre in social bowlers not league
As stated previously this may not be true
But I'm sure most League bowlers will turn up every week to bowl in the leagues but social bowlers need to be encouraged
So is it true they are better looked after (to an extent)?
Here in Morwell they tried things like changing the end of the centre the league bowlers bowl so the social bowlers would be bowling in front of the snack bar.
The Idea was so they would put money across the snack bar being so close.
I recently attended a course that had a guest lecturer that was some big Melbourne business guru and he stated
:-McDonald's don't sell food they sell Toys?
:-Harvey Norman don't sell Electrical goods They Sell FINANCE-
Maybe AMFs plans is to sell party's (Its all business strategy's)
Here at Morwell they do do bulk game buys but I'm not sure what they are
We all get 2 games for $6 on a Sunday night
IMO what we need to do is to get more league Bowlers
The more league bowers the more regular income the better deals that can be stuck
I personally believe the whole bowling sport is focused at the elite and the Juniors Not the middle league bowlers (those with averages 100 to 160)
I believe these should be offered more encouragements in the way of tournaments for bowlers with an average of under 150 - More coaching sessions etc for example !!!
I notice at Moorabin bowl they have a night for social bowler to bowl a free game with basic coaching
The intention is to sign them up to a leagues
And we need to some how lift the profile of the sport in general
(Maybe Lobby government to inject more money into bowling)
I was a bit surprise that the world masters prize purse was only $30,000us
Compare this to the prize of an international golf tournament of the same caliber
Just My 2 Cents worth
BTW_has anyone checked out the prices of the bowling lanes at crown casino in Melbourne
Even though I don't believe its a real centre
Shoe hire is something like $10
Lane Hire is some silly high fee
S
ShadowWolf
when i started bowling 18 yrs ago,(god that long ago ouch) the ppl behind control were friendly and co operative and walked the lanes of the social bowlers and spoke to them about league bowling, One of the problems now is social bowling is so expensive ppl dont want to join a league as they think it to expensive.
Id bowling is slowly dieing as Bowling alley's hold birthday party's on the saturday and get more money, i know a couple of centres in N.S.W dont want id so they can have more party's.
Id bowling is slowly dieing as Bowling alley's hold birthday party's on the saturday and get more money, i know a couple of centres in N.S.W dont want id so they can have more party's.
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