mongoliantreesloth
Member
If an alley doesn't run any leagues then I guess they wouldn't. If they want to run leagues during the day/evening and those leagues want to be sanctioned then it's pay up or lose that league to an alley that is.
TBA Income & Accountability - Suggestion
- Thread starter Bowling Balls Australia
- Start date
Bowling Balls Australia
Sponsor
Brings me back to Max's suggestion!
It's sounding more logical by the minute isn't it Jason?
That is an interesting nail you hit on the head Fred.
If
Remember that TBA is the National Sporting Organisation?? Most of these leagues with the average joes, they are just "social" bowlers, they dont care if there is a NSO, just as long as they can turn up and bowl. Unfortunately the proportion of average joes is sizable enough that they actually matter in this equation. Think that point is sadly missed...
These are the people who bowl league every week. Bring their families and friends for casual games or "fun" nights. They are a source of some of the juniors, and new bowlers that then see it as a sport.
V
If
- that is the point. So many leagues are really not caring either way.
Remember that TBA is the National Sporting Organisation?? Most of these leagues with the average joes, they are just "social" bowlers, they dont care if there is a NSO, just as long as they can turn up and bowl. Unfortunately the proportion of average joes is sizable enough that they actually matter in this equation. Think that point is sadly missed...
These are the people who bowl league every week. Bring their families and friends for casual games or "fun" nights. They are a source of some of the juniors, and new bowlers that then see it as a sport.
V
jockey
Member
Wayne FYI:
The Melbourne Tenpin Bowling Association was the original body for bowling down here. THe CTBAM come into existence when the MTBA split from the National body in 78 (again at that time they were told they were not required by the National body anymore).
As I recall that so called National body folded and I suspect so will this one.
We need people who are working for the best outcome for bowlers running our sport not people who are tring to cater for government rules and regulations for what seems to be a pittance in funding. That is why we need these associations and currently don't need the TBA in its present form based on the decisions it has made.
jockey
Member
Free awards as they have been getting since the year dot. By the way the majority are pins not pieces of paper. Support for leagues in the form of League kits etc as the leagues have done since the year dot. I also know that the MTBA still pay $300 to all first time 300 bowlers. I don't know if the CTBAM does the same.
MTBA bowlers have the chance to bowl in the East Coast Challenge Cup (ECCC) event annually as an alternative to the Rachuig and Nationals. Most bowlers who have been involved in both would probably rate the ECCC ahead of the others.
Both Associatons hold Annual Championships where members can bowl in Singles, Doubles, Teams and all Events.
By the way now all bowlers in leagues that register with either of these two associations will be unregistered bowlers however only about 1 - 5% of these will be affected (myself included) by not being registered by the TBA. As I am a scratch bowler who averages 200 or better I don't see not bowling in a TBA registered league as an impediment for Rachuig providing I pay up for my Silver membership.
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
Terry thanks for a concise answer re the services offered by MTBA and CTBAM. It sound like a very worthwhile service.
I have always regarded awards as possibly the most important factor of membership it was certainly one aspect that the old ATBC got right.
On a different note you wont need a silver membership for Rachuig - it seems the silver is only needed if you want to represent Nationally or take advantage of National training camps.
I have always regarded awards as possibly the most important factor of membership it was certainly one aspect that the old ATBC got right.
On a different note you wont need a silver membership for Rachuig - it seems the silver is only needed if you want to represent Nationally or take advantage of National training camps.
Peter Coburn
Sponsor
Jockey,
According to the Rachuig Rules bowlers wishing to trial or bowl Rachuig "Must have competed in at least eight weeks of league competition and bowled a minimum of 24 games in a TBA Accredited League in the State/Territory/Zone they wish to represent during the current year. League games completed as pre or post bowling do not count towards the number of games bowled."
It involves quite a bit more than simply paying the TBA membership fee.
It's certainly sad to see both MTBA and CTBAM dumped by TBA, they have both been around a lot longer and I'm sure will weather the storm. It's very positive that the 2 groups are having merger talks. Perhaps talks with the Victoria Holt Committee will also mutually bolster participation locally.
According to the Rachuig Rules bowlers wishing to trial or bowl Rachuig "Must have competed in at least eight weeks of league competition and bowled a minimum of 24 games in a TBA Accredited League in the State/Territory/Zone they wish to represent during the current year. League games completed as pre or post bowling do not count towards the number of games bowled."
It involves quite a bit more than simply paying the TBA membership fee.
It's certainly sad to see both MTBA and CTBAM dumped by TBA, they have both been around a lot longer and I'm sure will weather the storm. It's very positive that the 2 groups are having merger talks. Perhaps talks with the Victoria Holt Committee will also mutually bolster participation locally.
So you are saying that as TBA have walked away from MTBA and CTBAM (hence Victoria as a whole), and, as the rule stated above will most probably still be standing throughout 2009, there cannot be a Victorian team in Rachuig??
The main draw card for Rachuig, is that all States and territories (including our eighth Australian state
) represent, making it a truly national tournament. If Victoria is no longer present, would this/would this not, give ECCC a boost?(As the 'National' aspect to Rachuig will no longer be present.)
This is NOT a dig at ECCC, this is a request for information on whether TBA is directly lowering the importance of our National tournament scene and Tenpin bowling in general.
Again, If so ... Shame, Shame, Shame TBA.
Could someone clear up my assumptions please?
Cheers,
Rhyss.
lets get this topic back on subject please.
at the end of the day this topic is about income stream and accountability of the TBA.
I just did a rough calculation. If 20 cents were collected per game by ALL league bowlers bowling in a TBA sanctioned league, the income generated would be around $750 thou per year. What's 20 cents per game? and what's better? Free registration with condition only being a requirement to bowl in a TBA sanctioned league, or paying $27.50, $55 or whatever it is?
I rest my case.
at the end of the day this topic is about income stream and accountability of the TBA.
I just did a rough calculation. If 20 cents were collected per game by ALL league bowlers bowling in a TBA sanctioned league, the income generated would be around $750 thou per year. What's 20 cents per game? and what's better? Free registration with condition only being a requirement to bowl in a TBA sanctioned league, or paying $27.50, $55 or whatever it is?
I rest my case.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
With a yearly registration fee of $27.50 per bowler, in order to reach that same $750k figure, you'd need just over 27,000 paid up members...and none of them would be assessed at a higher figure simply because they bowl more than one league. Why not just make membership mandatory for all league bowlers and skip the complex weekly dues collection process. This is the way it works in the USA. Why do we have to be different?
What has to happen for this scenario to work is that the TBA has to grow some balls...
No registration, no sanction. No sanction, no recognition of any scores, thus no awards.
I believe this is the real reason why the TBA has told the splinter groups that they're no longer being recognised by the governing body.
What has to happen for this scenario to work is that the TBA has to grow some balls...
No registration, no sanction. No sanction, no recognition of any scores, thus no awards.
I believe this is the real reason why the TBA has told the splinter groups that they're no longer being recognised by the governing body.
Wayne,
The CTBAM and MTBA can hardly be called "splinter" groups.
Like previous posters have mentioned, they have been around decades, and have collected fees on behalf of TBA as any association has.
Only the clever people of TBA know why they do not want these associations in the new structure.
I am sure perhaps there are real good reasons why this course of action has occurred.
Is it good for the future of the sport - DEFINITELY NOT
Did the associations concerned do this - NO - they tried to talk with TBA
The bowlers that register with CTBAM or MTBA will continue to receive the awards as they always have and league stationery, etc - and what awards does TBA give (and dont you pay extra for them??)
V
The CTBAM and MTBA can hardly be called "splinter" groups.
Like previous posters have mentioned, they have been around decades, and have collected fees on behalf of TBA as any association has.
Only the clever people of TBA know why they do not want these associations in the new structure.
I am sure perhaps there are real good reasons why this course of action has occurred.
Is it good for the future of the sport - DEFINITELY NOT
Did the associations concerned do this - NO - they tried to talk with TBA
The bowlers that register with CTBAM or MTBA will continue to receive the awards as they always have and league stationery, etc - and what awards does TBA give (and dont you pay extra for them??)
V
wchester
Bowling Tragic
I'll stick with my description. The TBA is the NATIONAL GOVERNING BODY and has a national awards system. As a bowler, I know which award of recognition would mean more to me, and it isn't one from a 'city' association.
I still don't see why Melbournites 'need' to pay 'dues' to another group. Major corporations around the world have recognised the need to streamline their operations in order to remain financially stable. How is what the TBA is doing any different?
jockey
Member
I agree Wayne but we need the right one I thought. Enough said.
jockey
Member
Wayne Until we have a National body that shows through the decisions it makes that it is their to represent the greater good of all bowlers then I actually would prefer the award from the MTBA or CTBAM as I don't really think much for a piece of paper. I can go out and create my own for that matter.
Those other groups as you like to describe them show a lot more knowledge of what the current bowlers want than the TBA does currently so that is why the majority of leagues will stay with those associations. For one they get awards promptly if they apply for them not after months of waiting.
I know of a number of leagues who were not going to sanction with any body if both the MTBA and CTBAM were to remain affiliated with the TBA and now they are not to be affiliated those leagues are going to sanction again with their respective former association. For me that tells me that the bowlers do not agree or support the TBA in its current form.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
The $27.50 includes state and local assoc fees, and GST. TBA get $15.90 after GST, so they would need 47,000 members to raise $750K, less whatever they get from grants.
As a centre owner, if a league decides to run unsanctioned, do I toss them out? Like hell I do.
I encourage sanctioning in the centre, even though I really do feel that it is totally worthless for the average league bowler, in the hope that TBA will eventually get to the stage where it IS worth sanctioning. The insurance thing is a step in the right direction, and if they can bring the league funds insurance back then they actually have a selling point. But there is NO WAY I will sacrifice my business to keep TBA alive.
I suggested a $0.50 weekly levy on league play months ago. Very easy to implement and administer, no *****ing from the bowlers about coming up with thirty bucks (or up to $200 for some families) in one hit, and every league bowler in the centre is automatically sanctioned. I couldn't care less that TBA knows how many league games I put through - anyone with ten minutes and a bit of experience (or a calculator) can tell exactly what the league linage is in a centre from the league standing sheets anyway.
As for canning the Vic associations, that really is a breathtaking piece of stupidity, even by TBA standards. Is BATBA going to meet the same fate? if so, I can't see TBA making Easter.
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Meant to add - as far as awards go, we get our patches direct from National Awards, and they don't ask for confirmation that the awardees as TBA registered. So anyone can purchase as many awards as they want, sanctioned or not. The only ones recorded on the TBA site are 298+ and 800/3+ from memory, and 99% of bowlers will never throw one. So score recognition is a complete non-issue for the vast majority of bowlers.
jockey
Member
Hey Robbie. Hope its nice up there at Magnetic Island and Townsville way but then again it always is isn't it.
The majority of the awards the MTBA and CTBAM provide are the usual pins and chevrons that most associations used to provide. The cash 300 awards are of course subject to checking that it is the bowlers first otherwise if a league secretary applies for the award (subject to being once only or once a year) then the bowler will receive them.
I too have grave fears for the viability of the TBA after their decision to not accept associations like the MTBA and CTBAM for affiliation in 09. You say Easter so I guess we will have to wait and see.
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
Exactly who in TBA told the 2 Vic Associations they would not be accepted?
The reason I ask is that the Queensland based National Board Members and the Chairperson of TBA have all told me that what you are stating is simply not true.
From what little information I can gather it appears that the Victorian Associations are advising their members not to support the NSO. If this is the case then they should not be putting a spin on it by saying TBA has dumped them.
There are other groups in other States that would be deeply concerned about comments made in this thread about TBA and I feel that at this stage TBA needs to make a public statement concerning all these major Associations.
Andrew Shinnie
Secretary TBAQ.
