Stroker Vs Cranker

[wchester]

As said earlier, this topic has been around really since the early 70's and has always created a great debate. In the late 80's I was lucky enough to spend a month with the late great Don Johnson learning coaching techinques.
And for those young ones who do not know him..he was one of the greats of the PBA Tour and in late years the Pro's coach and mentor! He was a firm believer in working with what you already had, and develop a game that best suits YOU...hence I agree with George in this respect.
He said, every bowler has good and bad points and trying to copy another bowlers game could simply mean you are copying bad techincial mistakes.The best style a bowler could work too was not a cranker or a stroker..but what he called a CROKER..and combination of strokers timing and a crankers carry!...The ulitmate game...and balance of Power and Control.
We have alot of great players in Australia, but in real terms, only a couple who are actually "Crankers" as opposed to alot of great bowlers who are "Wrist players" and what I would call Crokers!
There is one particular quote he wanted everyone to all remember....
"It's not the amount of lift you have, it's the amount of wrist you have" If you can control your wrist, you can control the lanes!
Back in the 80's, Don had a clear vision for the next 20 years on who would be the worlds greatest bowlers..The ones with great timing and great wrist. These are the bowlers who will make a living on tour, cash regularly and WIN!
So now some 20 years on, lets look at the all time greats of our sport
All-Time Denny's PBA Tour Titlists
Updated after: 2006 Dexter Tournament of Champions (9/4/06)
41 Titles
Earl Anthony (0-Last title 1983)
Walter Ray Williams Jr. (Last title 2006)
34 Titles
Mark Roth (1-Last title 1995)
32 Titles
Pete Weber (Last title 2005)
30 Titles
Parker Bohn III (Last title 2005)
27 Titles
Mike Aulby (Last title 2001)
26 Titles
Don Johnson (0-Last title 1977)
D.Weber (Last title 0-1977)
24 Titles
Brian Voss (Last title 2006)
23 Titles
Norm Duke (Last title 2006)
22 Titles
Marshall Holman (1-Last title 1996)
20 Titles
D.Ritger (0-Last title 1979)
Wayne Webb (3-Last title 1997)
Judging by the list, I think he was right!

The 20 bowlers listed above are the greats of the PBA but your post is a bit misleading. Six of those bowlers won one title or less in the last 17 years and Wayne Webb won just three. So even though I agree that Don Johnson was a true pioneer in teaching bowling, he was by no means someone who could predict greatness. Most all of the above bowlers were already great at the time Johnson is said to have had his 'vision'.

 

[Grant61]

Yes that is correct wchester...but my quote says

Don had a clear vision for the next 20 years on who would be the worlds greatest bowlers..The ones with great timing and great wrist. These are the bowlers who will make a living on tour, cash regularly and WIN!

My list simply points out who the great bowlers are based on title wins. If you take out the players from the older generation, you are still left with multi title winners who have won titles recently.
Walter Ray Williams Jr. (2006 Denny’s World Championship - 3/26/06)
32 Titles
Pete Weber (2005 BowlersParadise.com Classic - 12/4/05)
30 Titles
Parker Bohn III (PBA El Paso Classic - 1/15/05)
24 Titles
Brian Voss (2006 Jackson Hewitt Tax Service Classic - 1/29/06)
23 Titles
Norm Duke (2006 Ace Hardware Championship - 3/19/06)
Apart from PW who joined the tour in 79 and Voss in 80, all the other players joined the tour in the early to mid 80's.
Twenty years on..and they are still winning! Great timing and great wrist!

 

[RobbieB]

Walter Ray has a wrist?
Seriously, there are lots of bowlers out there with great physical games that simply don't have the mental game and knowledge to excel consistently. That is the difference between the great and the good. A strong physical game is just one ingredient, and probably not even the most important.

To get back to the topic, while crankers are going to be inherently less accurate than strokers, that does not mean that a cranker can't seek to maximise his accuracy. A cranker who can hit three or four boards is always going to score better than one who needs two arrows, or a stroker who also needs four boards (lots of them around, too). Bowling is about making the most of what you can do. There are probably as many crankers who would benefit from shooting third arrow with plastic to improve their accuracy as there are strokers who need to work on 5th arrow carry.

 

[Jez]

Jez..
I'm not defensive about it. I've been hearing it for the last 37 years. What I'm really saying is that the right handed players who think lefties aren't worthy of carrying their bag, are just plain blind...... maybe it's the brightness of their own high opinion of themselves.
Learn to co-exist boys and you'll be a man because of it.

Wayne,

I never stated or intended that George is not worthy of carrying his bag or any lefty for that matter...I will say it again for the 10000000000 time that i think George is a great bowler.....you have made an issue out of nothing and i can't belive i am on here defending my comments. Anyway thats all from me.

Jarrod Lean

 

[jimcross]

AT LAST. Someone has mentioned the mental game. George is good because of his physical game, his dedication,etc., etc. George is really good, because he BELIEVES he's always going to win. His belief is not dented if he does'nt. If he ever loses that, and has doubts, he'll be just another good bowler like dozens of others. On either side of the lane!

 

[androooo]

Cranker here.... can back down to tweener if needed with help of a mongoose.

 

[wchester]

Wayne,
I never stated or intended that George is not worthy of carrying his bag or any lefty for that matter...I will say it again for the 10000000000 time that i think George is a great bowler.....you have made an issue out of nothing and i can't belive i am on here defending my comments. Anyway thats all from me.
Jarrod Lean

Jarrod..I apologize for my misinterpretation of your post. I completely misunderstood you.

PS..George isn't really a great bowler..he's just left-handed (but don't tell him I said so)

 

[jason_doust]

AT LAST. Someone has mentioned the mental game. George is good because of his physical game, his dedication,etc., etc. George is really good, because he BELIEVES he's always going to win. His belief is not dented if he does'nt. If he ever loses that, and has doubts, he'll be just another good bowler like dozens of others. On either side of the lane!

Good point! Very true! It doesn't matter how well you throw whatever kind of delivery (with what ever hand/hands, race, colour or creed - anyone else I can offend? ) without a good level, strong head. The other stand out thing about George that I see via his posts here and watching him apply it in play is that he believes in and advocates hard work. Becoming and being a good player is hard work. Mostly fun, but still hard work.

 

[jason_doust]

Interesting to look at the stats. Strokers out number crankers 3 to 1. When I left bowling in 1993/4 it would have been more like 15 to 1. Any comment anyone?

 

[RobbieB]

One word - area. It's a lot easier to be a cranker these days, with high powered, low rg balls that rev up easy. Also, a lot of guys whack it up because it looks more macho to hook it 40 boards. Combine that with lane conditions that funnel the ball to the pocket no matter how bad you hit it (or miss it) and you have an environment that encourages revolutions at the expense of accuracy. A lot of 'crankers' these days wouldn't have got a plastic or urethane ball to wrinkle 15 years ago, but now it's just a matter of buying the right ball, surface and layout to match ball speed and revs.

 

[*TAMA*]

i think crankers coz they have good carry

 

[domesticengineer]

Hi, Jason Doust used a word I haven't seen before in respect to bowling. Jason, you said, "Strokers and fudgers (there's more of the latter) have never had it so good in terms of carry." Crankers, strokers tweeners I know, but what is a fudger? (I'm still working on the world's largest glossary, so I need to know these terms. Is it purely Australian or where else might it be used?) regards, Walt

 

[Zac K]

I'd have to agree with *TAMA*. Crankers can get heaps of carry down when their ball set up in perfect or near perfect

 

[weggy]

I've learned to bowl either way depending on what's needed. If I had a preference, it would have to be a cranker, although I agree that it can be inconsistent on tougher patterns.

 

[falloutboy]

I like watching Crankers bowl. It's great to watch. I just like seeing the ball revving like anything, then ripping into the pocket at the last minute. I do notice that crankers get unusual splits at times. I see right handers missing the 1 pin and going straight through the 3-6, leaving all kinds of weird splits. But I think strokers and crankers are very equal, because any style has the ability to roll big and consistent good scores.

I don't think anyone of the styles is better than the other, like I said, they are very equal. I stroke the ball out and I bowl left handed. When I release the ball, perfectly off the fingers, my ball kicks the pins around, similiar to what a cranker would get. They won't throw around as fast, but they do throw around quite quickly. Normally the wider ball, clipping the left edge of the head pin will result in this. But I don't think there is a better out of the two. Alot of it has to do with your concentration and mind. You get your concentration levels up and you will bowl well either style.

 

[weggy]

In summary, do whatever you feel is right. I feel my style is good for me and I've proven it works. Belmo's style is good for him and he has proven it works. Do whatever you feel is right and keep developing your game.

Very true...

I can't put an answer in the poll question because I don't see myself as being any one style. I'll start off as a cranker, but if I'm inconsistent enough, I'll change to a stroker or a tweener (not that it usually matters ).

With the carry debate, I don't notice any major difference when I change my style to suit the conditions. It depends on how consistent my release is rather than anything else.

Hope this helps...

 

[DrewC]

whatnhappens to the guys who throw in side out. The guys who are pwwer strokers. The same guys who can throw shots by the singles boards but give them the open shot can throw the big hooking balls.

 

[Blinded]

DrewC, we are refering to them as crankers

 

[Samael]

Its difficult to actually get a real indication of just what a real deep inside shot is, the ability to hook a ball back to the pocket from playing such a deep line is not any indication of the ability to impart revs on a ball. It was discussed a little earlier where someone was talking about conditions having a large effect in getting the ball to turn the corner, with the right condition and ball in their hand, someone with little hand can cover just as many boards.

So if you want to talk about strokers vs crankers, you need to look at the physical differences between them, with hook being a byproduct.

I really dont know what is better, ive seen both camps, when playing their A game, totally wipe people off the lanes, racking up long distance telephone numbers in the process. However, i do agree with some people who have posted on here, no matter your delivery method (or your equipment), you give yourself an advantage by generating more leverage with your delivery. Gives you the ability to open up the lanes so much more, it doesnt not mean you need to sacrifice accuracy to do so though.

It sure does feel great tripping a terrible leave or a lone single pin with the amount of pin action you can develop. So im going to side with the crankers for the time being, even if the traditional cranker is a thing of the past

 

[KarenMK16]

On the most basic level of explanation possible, I'd like to get the accuracy of a stroker with the power of a cranker. Unfortunately, being female and not particularly large, it's not easy to get the power most crankers use.