Stroker Vs Cranker

[Hammer]

Which one are you?
Which one is better?
Just wondering what everyone thinks.
In my opinion, when theres a tough condition down, I feel its easy for the strokers, tweeners, etc to get the ball to the pocket. Crankers have a hard time because of the area they play. So with the 3:1 conditions would it be easier to change your game to stroke, no hand for these type of events? Im not saying crankers are better than strokers, just want to know people thoughts.

 

[DaleS]

When it comes to an out & out carry contest crankers have an advantage. Strokers/Tweeners are traditionally more accurate and generally bowl better on tougher/tighter conditions. I say generally because there are always exceptions to the rule.

 

[Tiger]

When it comes to an out & out carry contest crankers have an advantage. Strokers/Tweeners are traditionally more accurate and generally bowl better on tougher/tighter conditions. I say generally because there are always exceptions to the rule.

Yep, agreed. My shot's pretty much heritage listed by today's standards, very accurate but not a great amount of ball.
I prefer the tougher, grind out condition over the carry contest type shot anyday.

 

[griggsy]

no one can say one style is better than the other because both have their advantages and short falls. i feel you can be highly competitive on anything as long as you do what you do consistantly regardless if your a cranker or stroker.it all comes down to how consistant you are with your chosen game.needless tosay having a softer or stronger shot available to use is always a great advantage

 

[tonx]

Its all got to do with versatility.

If a cranker is able to up the speed, and drop the revs accurately and consistently, as well as being able to rev it up when the condition allows it, they can score as well as strokers on any condition.

If a stroker is able to generate a strong roll when high carry % is needed, they will be competitive on any condition.

I think for crankers to make their game work on all conditions, they need to work alot harder during practise, learning to play lines that they normally wouldnt be able to play. Strokers generally only need to fine tune ball reactions, and shot direction on most conditions, making it easier for them to score more consistently.

My style is traditionally called a cranker, however I worry more about where the shot is going, as opposed to how many revs I put on the ball.

 

[jason_doust]

When it comes to an out & out carry contest crankers have an advantage. Strokers/Tweeners are traditionally more accurate and generally bowl better on tougher/tighter conditions. I say generally because there are always exceptions to the rule.

Good point up to a point. This is the same conversation we've had for over 20 years now. What has changed since then is that you don't get conditions where a cranker can't get a urethane or plastic ball down the lane. (Yes, that really happened sometimes. Yes, it was butt ugly.)

In my experience, strokers in Australia are not much more accurate than crankers. They squash a lot of late 4 pins, blow 5 pins, get wall shots and throw brooklyns. What's their excuse? People aren't born crankers. My first league average was 114 and I bowled conventional with a slight backup. Then I saw Chris Batson bowl and had stars in my eyes. It was all bloody hard work (good fun too!) from there.

That said, Tonx is on the money. Every good player of any single participant sport (bowling, tennis golf, etc...) requires an "A" game and a couple of threads to it that allow them to be more competitive when the "A game" is toast. Cranker, stroker, tweener, whateverer. Even so, the "grind out" condition is usually a euphemism for a bad lane surface. Ex-PBA Lane Maintenance Director Len Nicholson once told me "You don't get big scores from a bad surface." Enough about lanes, this thread is about styles of play.

As for carry competitions, I've never been a fan of the term. These days especially, bad carry is indicative of sub-standard shot making or equipment choice. Strokers and fudgers (there's more of the latter) have never had it so good in terms of carry. It comes in a box about 9x9x9". The trouble for them is, crankers with higher revolutions can sometimes open up some area on the lane. This is a function of precession (change in rotation) and reading the surface friction. Higher carry then occurs because the crankers simply have more angular velocity on the ball surface when it hits the pins.

They've put the extra effort on it. They've lost a bit of accuracy in the process (a lot in some cases ), they cop some horrific splits and washouts in the effort to find a line. But when they do, some people complain that it's unfair! It's like complaining that the big guy next to you in the gym has more muscles! He put the work in! The ugly side of the "unfair" argument is that when everyone else is shut down (crankers, lefties, people who wear loud pants...) these same folks talk about it being "tough but fair." Bowling is never fair. It's probably not possible, unless we move to an oil free environment (use some type of dry lubricant like silicon), which ironically, would kill the crankers forever through over-reaction. But maybe then, it could be a level playing field.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Jason touched on a point that I would like to expand on:

They've put the extra effort on it. They've lost a bit of accuracy in the process (a lot in some cases ),

The bio mechanics of the cranker as opposed to the stroker (all other things being equal - ie ability, practice, dedication, coaching etc) by definition, make it impossible for the cranker to be as accurate as the stroker purely because of the extra (and very fast) movements of the wrist, elbow and shoulder.

Look at the stroker. The armswing remains on a consistent plane, the elbow remains straight and the wrist remains in one position with minimal rotation. Few movements = less to go wrong.

The cranker bends his elbow, snaps the wrist and opens and closes the shoulders all in a very quick succession in a very small period of time. Many movements = more to go wrong

There is also the physical wear and tear that comes from cranking relative to stroking the ball. Again, given everything else being equal physically, the cranker is going to find it tougher to play accurately over a long period of time.

Then there is the different mentality between the stroker and the cranker..... but that is for another thread......... :roll: :roll:

 

[Hammer]

There is also the physical wear and tear that comes from cranking relative to stroking the ball. Again, given everything else being equal physically, the cranker is going to find it tougher to play accurately over a long period of time.

Thus being said Brenton, How would a cranker bowl tight and still be accurate without changing the revolutions on the ball???.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Again, all other things being equal, it would bve extremely difficult. Thus the cranker requires extra physical dexterity and/or strength to achieve that end. Not impossible but extremely difficult.

 

[mattr]

When it comes to an out & out carry contest crankers have an advantage. Strokers/Tweeners are traditionally more accurate and generally bowl better on tougher/tighter conditions. I say generally because there are always exceptions to the rule.

i would have to disagree with the carry comment. I believe that with new technologyu in balls the tweener and stroker carry the same if not better than a cranker as the pins fly around way to much for the crankers

 

[Ducati 851]

hmm good topic...and yeah its been talked about for ages
well as far as accuracy vs. power and carry.
I think this may have been the case a few years ago, but i think a stroker can get just as much power as a cranker with the new balls out.

i think a stroker has to be more accurate to get a good score where as a cranker can miss their mark by a few boards and still his the pocket.

all in all i think you can be the best bowler in the world whether your a cranker or a stroker.

just look at the top 2 in the pba..

Tommy Jones....text book cranker
and
Mike Scroggins...text book stroker

From a personal level...
Yes im a cranker. Why? Cos its fun, i get more enjoyment out of cranking it then stroking.. and i would rather watch Walshy than George any day of the week! No offence george.

My 2 Cents

 

[CT]

I think you just need to look at the rankings list to see what works best, particularly on 3:1. Of the top 10 on the Adult rankings last year, we had:-

3 Left handers (who were a mix of strokers and power players(i think the term cranker does not apply to 99% of high rev players in this country))

1 genuine right handed stroker

6 High rev right handed bowlers

I personally believe that if a player can find the balance between high revs and control there is a definate advantage over just being accurate. Even with todays super high powered equipment, the players who put the energy in at the foul line, get the returns in the pin deck. A simple lesson in physics will show that the ball cannot produce energy so there for is limited to the amount of momentum/rotational energy put into it. The "lucky" carry high rev players get is a result of the huge amount of energy transferred to the pins, tho i think 'lucky' is not the correct term, as the players have put in the hard yards 60 feet previous.

One thing that all players, be them high rev or strokers, need to have is the ability to produce angle to the pocket. As Jason stated earlier in his post, it is this angle that gives the big hooking ball such an advantage in carry. Strokers who successfully compete with power players all have the ability to create angle through knowledge of angles to the pocket and maximising the limited angle they can produce.

In summing up, all bowlers have a chance in todays hi tech bowling enviroment. The need to balance power and accuracy will always be present in bowling and it is the ability of the bowler to determine how much of each is required at any certain time that will decide who wins on the day.

Chris Thomas

 

[GeorgeF]

No offence Ducati.......

I've been bowling for 23yrs and I sucked for 17yrs of my bowling career. I've never been a cranker and whilst I understand the concept I dont think it is for me (I can do it just not very consistantly).

I've modelled my bowling style and rotation on people who win. Internationally, Earl Anthony, Walter Ray, Australia wide, Ian Bradford and Cara Honeychurch. These bowlers win, and have won alot more than most. I decided after 17yrs of getting it wrong I was going to get it right.

I asked myself, what do these guys do that I don't? Over a few years I changed my approach (simple and controlled), I droppped my ball speed and I increased my rotation to a rate that I could win anywhere. I learnt heaps about the technical side of the sport attending bowling seminars in Europe, Asia and the USA by the very best in the industry.

These detailed yet simple changes have resulted in me from being an 'average joe bloe' to a National Champion. It goes to show, if you want to be successful, look at what the winners are doing and adapt your game accordingly. It's take me a VERY long time to get it right but I have got there. There is no reason why anyone reading this cant do the same.

Stroker or Cranker? What ever you believe is good for you, go for it. As for Crankers carrying better, we have had a tonne of bowling tournaments in Queensland which were carry contests and I've won almost all of them! It's not about rev's its about creating good angles to carry. I have learnt to create angles by changing balls and hand positions, nothing no one out there can't learn themselves.

In summary, do whatever you feel is right. I feel my style is good for me and I've proven it works. Belmo's style is good for him and he has proven it works. Do whatever you feel is right and keep developing your game. Never stop learning and keep at it, no matter how you bowl, you can be successful, I've proved that!

 

[Easy Tiger]

Soo.. George.. you available for coaching?

But seriously, thanks for that post. I think that could benefit a lot of younger bowlers, as many would not know your background, and how you've got to where you are now. For example, I wasn't even in the game 6 years ago, so apart from heresay, all I can see is what you (and others, like Brando and Belmo) have achieved since I've been in the game, which has really only been seriously the last 4 years.

Any insight like that helps in its own small way.

And in closing, in the words of Parker Bohn III to myself, "sometimes less is more".. if you can achieve the desired result with minimal effort, I'm thinking that's a pretty valid way to go, especially in marathon matchplay formats..

 

[Ducati 851]

Oh come on zoolander.
Youve only bowled a couple of 300's and won a few tournaments

haha just jokes mate
your one of the best oz has had to offer.
And a great ambassador for the sport

 

[Feral]

To me, George's style (and Cara's) is simply great to watch - so relaxed and smooth. The immense time, study and effort that George has put in to his game is a huge credit to him. He can read a lane condition so quickly and select the right drilling and adjust his hand to kill pins at will. That is something special in my book. What George doesn't know about a bowling ball composition and drilling layout is not worth knowing. Keep up your great work George, you are a pleasure to bowl with and great to watch, especially in the last 18 months or so.

Number 2 on my list would have to be Carl Bottomley and number 3 & 4 Glen Loader and Stephen Cowland - both up and coming champions.

But I still marvel at Belmo's skills with 2 hands and Brando when he's on fire - simply superb.

 

[Orange Ten Pin Bowl]

To me, George's style (and Cara's) is simply great to watch - so relaxed and smooth. .

Ferel.

You need to get out more
........................................................................


Jason Belmonte

 

[rynzeski]

I decided after 17yrs of getting it wrong I was going to get it right.
....
I feel my style is good for me and I've proven it works. Belmo's style is good for him and he has proven it works. Do whatever you feel is right and keep developing your game. Never stop learning and keep at it, no matter how you bowl, you can be successful, I've proved that!

Great advise George...
I have been bowling close to 10 years now and I admire the flashy style of the Crankers... but I do admit that I might not be able to do it myself or excel with that techique.
I am beginning to accept and becoming more comfortable with stroking the ball and trying to learn to read lane conditions. It is slowly paying off as I am consistently getting high scores by making adjustments and not relying on my usual lucky strikes.
It is also good to know that it is not too late for me, as George said he sucked at Bowling for 17 years before he became National Champion. So I can suck 7 more years before I think about bowling in the Nationals...

 

[Feral]

Ferel.
You need to get out more
........................................................................
Jason Belmonte

Oh Belmo, if only my old aged pension and "carer" would let me
Cheers you young devil
Feral

 

[Murderdoll]

before I gave it up I was a cranker