As it was said earlier about ECCC, the teams both adult and youth are both same sex teams of seven. The only team that is combined is the senior team, and that is mainly because of the lack of seniors in the sport. The competition is however absolutely great (speaking from experience).
Should we allow the changes to DeVeer?
- Thread starter Bowling Balls Australia
- Start date
Nighteyes300
Member
The seniors format is changing for 2007, it will be two teams, male and female, both graded
E
edfleminglanes
Good comment Alex, but maybe you should talk to Peter before you mention his name. I believe that there could be quite a few changes in the wind coming up. And Robbies comment of E-mailing Alex..great point but why stop there e-mail to TBA board as well. Make them aware of your concerns with regards to WDV.
E
edfleminglanes
Good to see you getting involved. I think the overall debate is great and finally bowlers Australia wide are actually having the courage to stand up and say what they think. Does not matter if you and I agree on things or not, the fact that bowlers are having a good debate and wanting something to better bowling is great.Hopefully the board members of TBA will take the comments made on this Forum in the the spirit that is was meant.
E
edfleminglanes
________________________________________
Joe
For your information the following petition was email to all the TBA Board and State Managers yesterday.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Please accept this email as a formal petition for the re-introduction of the Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge, in its 2006 rule format, into the schedule for the 2007 Australian National Championship at Altona.
On Saturday the 6th January 2007 a group of concerned bowlers and administrators met in Melbourne to formulate a plan to petition the TBA Board and State Managers to consider the re-introduction of the very popular Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge, in its 2006 rule format, back into the 2007 Australian National Championship.
G. Wilson (NT), S. Hendricksen (WA), J. Kent (Vic), G. Russell (Vic), D. Simpson (Qld and TBAQ), P. Turner (SA), D. Nichols (SA), L. Hickey (ACT), C. Dennis (ACT), C. Sculthorpe (Tas), K. Huxley (Tas), D. Archer (NSW and NSWTBA Adult State Tournament Committee), M. Wentworth-Perry (NSW) travelled at their own expense to this meeting and represented the voice of eleven years of Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge history.
P. Coburn (Vic), J. Dobson (Tas) & R. Hatchard (SA) also attended as special invited guests and were asked to contribute.
We would like to highlight text included in both the TBA Vision and Mission statements as displayed prominently on the TBA website.
Vision : Tenpin Bowling To Be The Pre-Eminent Lifetime Participative And Competitive Sport In Australia.
Mission Statement : To Provide Governance, Education And Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders.
This group feels that TBA are ignoring their own Mission State and in particular the statement “Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” with the 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules as recently released on the following basis:
1. The Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge was an event created by Daryl Holt and presented by Warren Stewart to the ATBC AGM in 1995. Voting delegates at this event agreed unanimously to introduce this event the following year. The first event was conducted as part of the Adult National Championship at Canberra in 1996. Since this first event 539 men and 533 women have represented their respective zones in its eleven year history. With the marked change in the proposed 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules we note that that this was not introduced “In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” in that absolutely none of the zone Adult State Team or De Veer Committees were even asked or consulted on any proposed changes let alone any of the existing DeVeer bowlers themselves. There was ample opportunity to consult with representatives from these committees, and bowlers, as they were all in Hobart at the same time as the State Managers meeting.
2. In 2006 the event known as the Intercentre Challenge formed part of the Australian Adult National Championship. This event was introduced in 2003, as a Trios format, and similar in format to the proposed new 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge. The entry fee for this event has been capped at $150.00 through this time.
3. In 2003 (Townsville) 9 teams competed, 7 teams in 2004 (Melbourne), 15 teams in 2005 (Illawarra) and in 2006 (Hobart). This event has been grown slightly from its first event however significant is that the lowest number was when the Nationals were last conducted in Melbourne when Victorian centres boycotted this event. This was after significant promotion of this event through Victorian centres.
4. The success, both financially and participation wise, is dependent upon the local bowler participation and as history has it with the lack of support by local centres this group feels that the new 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge will not be attractive for twenty 5-person teams.
5. The entry fee for the proposed 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge is $710.00 for each 5-person team making the final. With only the winners of this proposed event getting their money back (subject to 10 teams entering) we feel that this event is less attractive than the current Intercentre Challenge.
6. The 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge is not Restricted as there is not an average cut off to make it a restricted event.
7. We feel that this new format will adversely effect the participation at the 2007 Adult Nationals. During the course of the 2006 Australian National Championship in Hobart a total of 12385 games were bowled compared with 12674 in 2005.
• 997 were bowled by Seniors (ATBSO members) who stayed on and bowled an All Event and the TBA Seniors Cup.
• 6280 games were bowled during the DeVeer week through All Events, Intercentre Cup (43 , the 3 days of Deveer and then Restricted Cup. Immediately after the final of Restricted Cup, at the conclusion of DeVeer week, the game count was 618 ahead of the 2005 tally.
• 5108 games were bowled during the week of Rachuig including All Events, 3 days of Rachuig, Classic and Masters.
The game tally during the 2006 Rachuig week was 907 games less then in 2005.
Fact : The DeVeer groups bowl the lion’s share of the games at the Adult National Championships.
A significant number of the 2006 DeVeer bowlers, and their supporters, will not come to the 2007 National Championship. This will lead to a major downturn in the lineage returned to the host centre. This downturn may result in this event running at a significant financial loss.
8. In previous years most zones insist that their state teams must bowl their home zone state championship. With the abolition of the Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge as a state representative group we feel that state championships around the country will also be down on entries.
9. It has been stated that DeVeer was introduced as a pathway to Rachuig. We do not believe this statement as being correct since the 2006 Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge rules state the following purpose for this event:
(a) The purpose of the Walter de Veer Restricted Challenge is to determine annually the best Zone representative team of bowlers with averages not exceeding 184 in the Men’s Division and 174 in the Women’s Division in a handicapped competition.
(b) To foster, develop and advance a spirit of good sportsmanship and fellowship, to promote and maintain a good relationship amongst the representative teams and to provide an opportunity for a combination of graded and handicapped competition of all ages and abilities.
We can find no reference in these rules to this event being a pathway.
10. We do acknowledge that a significant number of bowlers first state team experience was in a DeVeer team. While our investigations, through the TBA website, reveal that twenty (20) of these bowlers went on to compete in the scratch Walter Rachuig Trophy, four (4) of these bowlers went on to represent their country at the highest scratch level, three (3) went on to win a scratch nationally ranked event and one (1) went on to win two scratch national ranking systems. Without this event, we have no doubts that these bowlers would not have moved forward with their bowling if not for their first state team experience with the Walter de Veer Restricted Challenge.
This petition is on behalf of all male bowlers with a 184 or lower average and all female bowlers with a 174 or lower average, coaches, managers and supporters from around Australia – potentially 80% of TBA’s 2007 Membership.
We note that some zones have continued to include a DeVeer roll off date within the state tournament calendars and as the re-introduction of these will require the organisation of these roll offs we request a formal decision or response to this petition no later than the 22nd January 2007.
Joe
For your information the following petition was email to all the TBA Board and State Managers yesterday.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Please accept this email as a formal petition for the re-introduction of the Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge, in its 2006 rule format, into the schedule for the 2007 Australian National Championship at Altona.
On Saturday the 6th January 2007 a group of concerned bowlers and administrators met in Melbourne to formulate a plan to petition the TBA Board and State Managers to consider the re-introduction of the very popular Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge, in its 2006 rule format, back into the 2007 Australian National Championship.
G. Wilson (NT), S. Hendricksen (WA), J. Kent (Vic), G. Russell (Vic), D. Simpson (Qld and TBAQ), P. Turner (SA), D. Nichols (SA), L. Hickey (ACT), C. Dennis (ACT), C. Sculthorpe (Tas), K. Huxley (Tas), D. Archer (NSW and NSWTBA Adult State Tournament Committee), M. Wentworth-Perry (NSW) travelled at their own expense to this meeting and represented the voice of eleven years of Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge history.
P. Coburn (Vic), J. Dobson (Tas) & R. Hatchard (SA) also attended as special invited guests and were asked to contribute.
We would like to highlight text included in both the TBA Vision and Mission statements as displayed prominently on the TBA website.
Vision : Tenpin Bowling To Be The Pre-Eminent Lifetime Participative And Competitive Sport In Australia.
Mission Statement : To Provide Governance, Education And Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders.
This group feels that TBA are ignoring their own Mission State and in particular the statement “Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” with the 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules as recently released on the following basis:
1. The Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge was an event created by Daryl Holt and presented by Warren Stewart to the ATBC AGM in 1995. Voting delegates at this event agreed unanimously to introduce this event the following year. The first event was conducted as part of the Adult National Championship at Canberra in 1996. Since this first event 539 men and 533 women have represented their respective zones in its eleven year history. With the marked change in the proposed 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules we note that that this was not introduced “In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” in that absolutely none of the zone Adult State Team or De Veer Committees were even asked or consulted on any proposed changes let alone any of the existing DeVeer bowlers themselves. There was ample opportunity to consult with representatives from these committees, and bowlers, as they were all in Hobart at the same time as the State Managers meeting.
2. In 2006 the event known as the Intercentre Challenge formed part of the Australian Adult National Championship. This event was introduced in 2003, as a Trios format, and similar in format to the proposed new 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge. The entry fee for this event has been capped at $150.00 through this time.
3. In 2003 (Townsville) 9 teams competed, 7 teams in 2004 (Melbourne), 15 teams in 2005 (Illawarra) and in 2006 (Hobart). This event has been grown slightly from its first event however significant is that the lowest number was when the Nationals were last conducted in Melbourne when Victorian centres boycotted this event. This was after significant promotion of this event through Victorian centres.
4. The success, both financially and participation wise, is dependent upon the local bowler participation and as history has it with the lack of support by local centres this group feels that the new 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge will not be attractive for twenty 5-person teams.
5. The entry fee for the proposed 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge is $710.00 for each 5-person team making the final. With only the winners of this proposed event getting their money back (subject to 10 teams entering) we feel that this event is less attractive than the current Intercentre Challenge.
6. The 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge is not Restricted as there is not an average cut off to make it a restricted event.
7. We feel that this new format will adversely effect the participation at the 2007 Adult Nationals. During the course of the 2006 Australian National Championship in Hobart a total of 12385 games were bowled compared with 12674 in 2005.
• 997 were bowled by Seniors (ATBSO members) who stayed on and bowled an All Event and the TBA Seniors Cup.
• 6280 games were bowled during the DeVeer week through All Events, Intercentre Cup (43 , the 3 days of Deveer and then Restricted Cup. Immediately after the final of Restricted Cup, at the conclusion of DeVeer week, the game count was 618 ahead of the 2005 tally.
• 5108 games were bowled during the week of Rachuig including All Events, 3 days of Rachuig, Classic and Masters.
The game tally during the 2006 Rachuig week was 907 games less then in 2005.
Fact : The DeVeer groups bowl the lion’s share of the games at the Adult National Championships.
A significant number of the 2006 DeVeer bowlers, and their supporters, will not come to the 2007 National Championship. This will lead to a major downturn in the lineage returned to the host centre. This downturn may result in this event running at a significant financial loss.
8. In previous years most zones insist that their state teams must bowl their home zone state championship. With the abolition of the Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge as a state representative group we feel that state championships around the country will also be down on entries.
9. It has been stated that DeVeer was introduced as a pathway to Rachuig. We do not believe this statement as being correct since the 2006 Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge rules state the following purpose for this event:
(a) The purpose of the Walter de Veer Restricted Challenge is to determine annually the best Zone representative team of bowlers with averages not exceeding 184 in the Men’s Division and 174 in the Women’s Division in a handicapped competition.
(b) To foster, develop and advance a spirit of good sportsmanship and fellowship, to promote and maintain a good relationship amongst the representative teams and to provide an opportunity for a combination of graded and handicapped competition of all ages and abilities.
We can find no reference in these rules to this event being a pathway.
10. We do acknowledge that a significant number of bowlers first state team experience was in a DeVeer team. While our investigations, through the TBA website, reveal that twenty (20) of these bowlers went on to compete in the scratch Walter Rachuig Trophy, four (4) of these bowlers went on to represent their country at the highest scratch level, three (3) went on to win a scratch nationally ranked event and one (1) went on to win two scratch national ranking systems. Without this event, we have no doubts that these bowlers would not have moved forward with their bowling if not for their first state team experience with the Walter de Veer Restricted Challenge.
This petition is on behalf of all male bowlers with a 184 or lower average and all female bowlers with a 174 or lower average, coaches, managers and supporters from around Australia – potentially 80% of TBA’s 2007 Membership.
We note that some zones have continued to include a DeVeer roll off date within the state tournament calendars and as the re-introduction of these will require the organisation of these roll offs we request a formal decision or response to this petition no later than the 22nd January 2007.
G'day all
To all those that travelled to Melb. Well done and as a representation of the WDV bowlers thank you. I hope that TBA do get some sense into them and take notice, but as so many times before I guess the silence will be deafining. So much for the forum held in Melb at Forrest Hills before the 2005 WDV. Another 2 years have passed and I still have yet to find the bowlers who were surveyed to make this monumentus blunder.
I hope that TBA do reverse their decision as I would Like to represent the state/territory at WDV again where I am residing that particular year. I have represented ACT as the Manager, NT and WA as a player. To all my friends, Previous Team-mates and opponents, lets get in there, support this committee and bring back WDV.
Those wishing to voice there support I will be at Cannington Bowl (WA) bowling in the Cannington Aces League Thursday nights.
Cheers
Michael (Mick) House
To all those that travelled to Melb. Well done and as a representation of the WDV bowlers thank you. I hope that TBA do get some sense into them and take notice, but as so many times before I guess the silence will be deafining. So much for the forum held in Melb at Forrest Hills before the 2005 WDV. Another 2 years have passed and I still have yet to find the bowlers who were surveyed to make this monumentus blunder.
I hope that TBA do reverse their decision as I would Like to represent the state/territory at WDV again where I am residing that particular year. I have represented ACT as the Manager, NT and WA as a player. To all my friends, Previous Team-mates and opponents, lets get in there, support this committee and bring back WDV.
Those wishing to voice there support I will be at Cannington Bowl (WA) bowling in the Cannington Aces League Thursday nights.
Cheers
Michael (Mick) House
You're suggesting the 2004 forum was imaginary, or had extremely low attendance?
Whilst I didn't go myself, I distinctly recall a few of the posse heading over to it. Peter fought really hard to keep WDV back then, and that forum was about trying to save it for you guys - attendance there should have represented the majority that actually cared at the time, and they made some decisions. My point is; that forum was about you guys the bowlers, if too few people cared to provide input then the rest need to go with what they're given.
On a side note, I'm amazed that all these people converged from far and wide and all they came out with was a petition that most of them "know" will be ignored. I had expected a plan of action moving forward, on the assumption this will be ignored, would have been developed.
I guess that just shows the passion, all that expense and it's still "Slow and Steady", doing it properly. Well done guys.
The forum at Forest Hill in 2004 was "standing room only" and a host of issues were teased out thanks to Peter and others. Issues were voted on. A lot of the problem at that time revolved around a certain group who obviously didn't play by fair rules or ethics. Since then, the efforts made to use all events averages seem to have been on the right track. I applaud what Peter (and others) have tried to do to save De Veer, including the recent get together and the petition and wording of same. It is now up to TBA to do something constructive based on the issues and feelings of the petition. Well done Joe and your group.
JWhitty - Your post is so negative it doesn't warrant even the slightest consideration. Get your facts straight before you blab your garbage and sarcasm at people who at least have got positive initiatives.
E
edfleminglanes
Feral just to get the point right , I am not part of this group but was send a copy of the letter which was forwarded onto TBA. I think it is great to see a group of passioned people get together at their own expense and try to save an event that has fostered numerous friendships over the years. The fact that Peter, John and Rhonda were at this meeting is fantastic, as they were the official TBA tournament team and did a great job in running the nationals. It will be interesting to see if TBA acknowledge this letter or not. What we need now is for these passioned people to get into their State Associations ear and drum up support, giving you the bowlers a more official voice.
dunryc
Long Suffering Raiders Fan
Same old statements, and yet again, one of the main reasons why WDV is so targetted by the Rachuig bowlers. Mick, you're a nice bloke, but you have not "represented" any state or Territory. You have played in a non consequential fun tournament, been falsely issued a State Shirt and been misguidedly given the impression that some sort of representational status has been attached to your attendance in said tournament. All false.
President's Shield, Youth, Rachuig, Seniors and Handicapped/Physically Impaired (Sorry, don't know what the politically correct term is these days) are the only ones that can claim State representational Status. WDV isn't among them.
Stop claiming representational status, and maybe you might gain some respect and earn some serious consideration.
Cheers
Jan
dunryc
Long Suffering Raiders Fan
On Saturday the 6th January 2007 a group of concerned bowlers and administrators met in Melbourne to formulate a plan to petition the TBA Board and State Managers to consider the re-introduction of the very popular Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge, in its 2006 rule format, back into the 2007 Australian National Championship.
We would like to highlight text included in both the TBA Vision and Mission statements as displayed prominently on the TBA website.
Vision : Tenpin Bowling To Be The Pre-Eminent Lifetime Participative And Competitive Sport In Australia.
Mission Statement : To Provide Governance, Education And Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders.
This group feels that TBA are ignoring their own Mission State and in particular the statement “Opportunities For Participation And Achievement Within The Sport In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” with the 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules as recently released on the following basis:
1. The Walter De Veer Restricted Challenge was an event created by Daryl Holt and presented by Warren Stewart to the ATBC AGM in 1995. Voting delegates at this event agreed unanimously to introduce this event the following year. The first event was conducted as part of the Adult National Championship at Canberra in 1996. Since this first event 539 men and 533 women have represented their respective zones in its eleven year history. With the marked change in the proposed 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge rules we note that that this was not introduced “In Partnership With The Industry And Its Stakeholders” in that absolutely none of the zone Adult State Team or De Veer Committees were even asked or consulted on any proposed changes let alone any of the existing DeVeer bowlers themselves. There was ample opportunity to consult with representatives from these committees, and bowlers, as they were all in Hobart at the same time as the State Managers meeting.
6. The 2007 Walter De Veer National Restricted Challenge is not Restricted as there is not an average cut off to make it a restricted event.
7. We feel that this new format will adversely effect the participation at the 2007 Adult Nationals. During the course of the 2006 Australian National Championship in Hobart a total of 12385 games were bowled compared with 12674 in 2005.
A significant number of the 2006 DeVeer bowlers, and their supporters, will not come to the 2007 National Championship. This will lead to a major downturn in the lineage returned to the host centre. This downturn may result in this event running at a significant financial loss.
10. We do acknowledge that a significant number of bowlers first state team experience was in a DeVeer team. While our investigations, through the TBA website, reveal that twenty (20) of these bowlers went on to compete in the scratch Walter Rachuig Trophy, four (4) of these bowlers went on to represent their country at the highest scratch level, three (3) went on to win a scratch nationally ranked event and one (1) went on to win two scratch national ranking systems. Without this event, we have no doubts that these bowlers would not have moved forward with their bowling if not for their first state team experience with the Walter de Veer Restricted Challenge.
we request a formal decision or response to this petition no later than the 22nd January 2007.
So 16 people attended the "Not so secret" meeting in Melbourne and this was all that they could come up with. I agree with Jeff. A veiled threat of boycotts and non-attendance isn’t going to deter the TBA from its course, nor should it.
You claim that TBA is not living up to its mission statement. Seems to me the TBA is trying to increase the opportunity to participate and achieve, by basically merging WDV and the intercentre challenge and removing some of the restrictions that WDV imposed.The tournament is now opened up to a wider range of bowlers that would never have had the opportunity to compete.
You claim that it has not done this in partnership with industry and stakeholders because the WDV bowlers weren't consulted. Sorry, but as they are duly elected representatives, they have the right to make the decisions on your behalf without consultation. They can make changes as an elected body, and decide on anything that they feel is beneficial and in the best interest of the short term and long term future of the sport. Perhaps the numbers will be down at the Nationals this year, but hopefully, long term, the tournament will grow into it's capabilities, and be a bigger, better and fully supported event that has eliminated sandbagging, negative connotations and false claims of State representation. Just like any elected official, some of the population is never going to be happy with their decisions, but some of them will be. We have to believe that these people are doing what they think is best for the sport. By all means, have your say on the forum, but don't make demands and deliver petitions to "OUR" representatives. If you feel that strongly about it, get yourselves elected to your respective committees next year and implement change yourselves. Don't just whinge because they have made a decision that you don't like.
Claims that you feel the bowlers who went on to win scratch events and make the National Team would not have done so without the experience they gained in WDV is farcical. The majority of National Reps and Scratch Event and Rankings Winners have done just fine without ever had the dubious benefit of participating in WDV. If they have that much talent and potential, I think it is fair to say that they would've achieved the same level with or without WDV.
I don't think your non representational "Secret" group has any right to impose deadlines on when the TBA needs to respond, nor do I think they should bother, but I think that they will respond officially when they can, and when they do, I hope that's the end of it. Accept whatever their decision is, and move along!
Cheers
Jan
You've evidently gotten in a bad mood, probably by reading everything in front of it, but I wasn't trying to be negative. I honestly meant "Well done guys" for getting together and doing something. I did think more would be done, but I'm still applauding what was done. Just because I'm not a WDV bowler myself doesn't mean I'm against you people.
Here's me defending things and pointing out that Peter was in fact trying hard to help out, and you still choose to read it as negative and sarcastic.
That's what I meant, thank you Jan for reading the fact in my post without inferring emotion. The fact was I expected more action, I know how many passionate people incurred real expenses to be there, and I had anticipated far more active results than a simple petition. I'm not criticising, so once again - well done guys on getting together and acting on your beliefs.Jan said:
My only criticism was that someone tried to say the forum was a sham and the outcomes of that were "a momentus blunder". I was defending PC and the decisions you guys made.Mick House said:
G'day All
My Apologies to all State and Territory people who I offended. I will reword my statement. I payed my money and bowled in a quailifying tourament and finished high enough to be picked and I played for a team called Northern Territory State Team Walter De Veer 2003, Western Australia Walter De Veer Graded Competition 2005 and in 2000 I applied for and was successful in being elected to Manage the ACT State Tenpin Bowling Team in the Walter De Veer Competition.
I took these titles straight off the team shirts that I payed and played for, so again to ACT and NT Bowlers, my apologies for accepting these shirts with word STATE on.
Cheers
Michael (Mick) House
My Apologies to all State and Territory people who I offended. I will reword my statement. I payed my money and bowled in a quailifying tourament and finished high enough to be picked and I played for a team called Northern Territory State Team Walter De Veer 2003, Western Australia Walter De Veer Graded Competition 2005 and in 2000 I applied for and was successful in being elected to Manage the ACT State Tenpin Bowling Team in the Walter De Veer Competition.
I took these titles straight off the team shirts that I payed and played for, so again to ACT and NT Bowlers, my apologies for accepting these shirts with word STATE on.
Cheers
Michael (Mick) House
Grumpy gills
Just misunderstood!!!
Michael,
dunryc posted
I guess all those committies got it wrong and for how many years?
I will still wear my shirt though and be damn proud of doing so.
Bernie Shelley
Cairns NQ
dunryc posted
Jan's attitude to WDV bowlers does nothing for our sport. ](*,)
I guess all those committies got it wrong and for how many years?
I will still wear my shirt though and be damn proud of doing so.
Bernie Shelley
Cairns NQ
Bernie & Michael, l am proud to wear my De Veer Shirts as well, and will continue to do so with pride. The point is though we should not be fighting about Rachuig being better than WDV and WDV not being a state team etc. What we are fighting for is to keep WDV whether we have State on our shirts or not. The tournament can still go on the same no matter what we have on our shirts. Give us back our bowling competition that we all love bowling in, maybe because we all have so much fun and make so many friendships year after year is part of the problem. I thought that was what bowling was all about, having fun and making friends. Life is too short, live a little.
I apologise if I misinterpreted what you said.
I totally agree with Bernedette, Mick (a great guy) and Squealer and will continue to wear my STATE WDV shirt with pride along side my 4 STATE Seniors shirts and one Australian shirt and all the "swaps". They have equal status to me.
Thanks again for the petition guys. Hope TBA take note of the feelings of TRUE WDV bowlers who thoroughly enjoy, yes enjoy, the WDV competition.
super spicko
The Spaniard.
Not meaning to come over a being censorious but,I seem to get the impression that it's all about the shirts,
Here's a good one for you Jan, firstly a little about myself, I am one the bowlers who was never able to bowl De Veer as my Average was always too high. My only regret is that I never got the chance to bowl juniors. I used to Social bowl, with my friends back in 1987, and '89' we were approached to join a league and I never looked back. I used to go see the W.A. Open and I was in augh of the Elite bowlers, so much that I competed in the Pro-am Tournaments just to get pointers and experiences from the Elite back then.
I went to coaching clinics, changed my ball, a conventionally drilled plastic ball to a finger tip Urethane ball in '90' as the only way to improve your avarage was to change the angle of entry into the pocket. Here's where I would like you to comment on, Do you remember an event called Thunder Down Under in Western Australia. A handicapped competition where it was graded depending on your Average as to what category group you were placed in.This was a Challange to win a spot and represent an Australian Team to bowl against the Team America. Over the course of 2 weeks and 20 odd games, I made the Team, a very proud momment for me as I had really only started bowling. We were given a State Signed letter from the then Premier Carmen Lawrence, congratulating us for making the team and to make Australia proud. I was given a kit and the shirts had the Proper Australian logo on the back with my name and the Embroided badge on the front(same as the baggygreen cap badge) saying Australia, Ten Pin Bowling, 1991.
The feeling that we all had going from centre to centre in W.A. standing on the approaches proudly as the Australian Anthem was played is priceless. We were all different averages put into teams of 5 to play for our country, but Handicaps didn't come into it as we were bowling the Baker System. The team of 5 that I was in won the Gold and our match was telecast on TV. I knew that I wasn't an elite Australian bowler, but a representative for an Australian Team, so did I deserve the right to wear that shirt?
Same can be said about De Veer, you fight for a spot in order to represent your State in an Interstate Restricted Handicapped tournament. Then you compete in order to be the best State for that particular year. It's a pity about the Sandbagging few, but there are a lot of legitimate bowlers who strive to bowl the best that they can with the ability that they have.
That's were Max's suggestion for the improvement was by far the best option.
I have an 11yr old and a 5yr old bowling at the momment. My 5yr old started bowling at 3, I'm not putting them under any pressure to bowl, they just love the sport. A certain State coach (on numerous occassions over the years) who has many State shirts, gave my two boys State shirts each, in which my Mother altered so that they would fit.This coach has done so much for the juniors and this gift of the shirts, jackets, not just to my boys but for other kids, is truly unselfish and from the heart, just to see these kids bowling proudly with these shirts on is priceless. They know that they didn't earn them but they all love the feeling of belonging, which in no doubt will motivate them to better and improve themselves to be the best that they can be.
I love the sport and most of the friends & people that know me and the new friends made at Moonah last year, know that I give more than 100% and always strive to improve & better myself, as so do the majority of De Veer bowlers.
Over the last 7 years I have had several serious injuries, and I'd say that 3 of those 7, I had to bowl with the opposite hand. The last incident was in April 2004, where I nearly lost my bowling thumb and a lot of skin on the back of the hand, a few operations later and I'm back bowling. As I had only bowled a few games at the beginning of that year and then 7 months later I finished off with a couple more, managed to get to 24 games at a 184ave. Having so many friends bowling De Veer at the time they suggested I try out, due to my circumstances. April 2005 last game on day one, second frame I tore part of my bicep due to no match fitness. They next day I stilled bowled 7 mores games, pretty much just pushing the ball, I nearly made the team(reserve), more therapy, back to bowling opposite hand. Yearbook average from 2004 for 2006 as I didn't bowl enough games in 2005,(another operation in Oct). Bowled in roll offs and Qualified for DeVeer "06". The look and the feeling of my fellow bowlers(from all over Aust) as we all proudly did our best for our State in a Restricted competition will never be forgot.So what!!!:-k about the shirts, they don't say State team, just Interstate Restricted Challenge.
I will wear them with pride, & the swapped ones also.
I have felt honoured by the new friendships made and people met, Peter, Joe, too many to mention, that still have a passion for the game and what it represents. I applaude Max for what he is trying to achieve for the game and the changes that would've been beneficial for the continuation of Deveer. I understand where both parties are coming from, the Elite and the Restricted, but surely you can't take away the right for anyone to compete in any sport, whether Handicapped or not, when they are performing with the best of their abilities. I was not eligible to bowl Deveer this year as my Ave was too high, but I enjoyed it so much that I was going to try and qualify with the opposite hand. I will also be trying out for Rachuig. I hope and trust that I haven't offended anyone as I was only trying to put to view a different perspective to the question.
Here's a good one for you Jan, firstly a little about myself, I am one the bowlers who was never able to bowl De Veer as my Average was always too high. My only regret is that I never got the chance to bowl juniors. I used to Social bowl, with my friends back in 1987, and '89' we were approached to join a league and I never looked back. I used to go see the W.A. Open and I was in augh of the Elite bowlers, so much that I competed in the Pro-am Tournaments just to get pointers and experiences from the Elite back then.
I went to coaching clinics, changed my ball, a conventionally drilled plastic ball to a finger tip Urethane ball in '90' as the only way to improve your avarage was to change the angle of entry into the pocket. Here's where I would like you to comment on, Do you remember an event called Thunder Down Under in Western Australia. A handicapped competition where it was graded depending on your Average as to what category group you were placed in.This was a Challange to win a spot and represent an Australian Team to bowl against the Team America. Over the course of 2 weeks and 20 odd games, I made the Team, a very proud momment for me as I had really only started bowling. We were given a State Signed letter from the then Premier Carmen Lawrence, congratulating us for making the team and to make Australia proud. I was given a kit and the shirts had the Proper Australian logo on the back with my name and the Embroided badge on the front(same as the baggygreen cap badge) saying Australia, Ten Pin Bowling, 1991.
The feeling that we all had going from centre to centre in W.A. standing on the approaches proudly as the Australian Anthem was played is priceless. We were all different averages put into teams of 5 to play for our country, but Handicaps didn't come into it as we were bowling the Baker System. The team of 5 that I was in won the Gold and our match was telecast on TV. I knew that I wasn't an elite Australian bowler, but a representative for an Australian Team, so did I deserve the right to wear that shirt?
Same can be said about De Veer, you fight for a spot in order to represent your State in an Interstate Restricted Handicapped tournament. Then you compete in order to be the best State for that particular year. It's a pity about the Sandbagging few, but there are a lot of legitimate bowlers who strive to bowl the best that they can with the ability that they have.
That's were Max's suggestion for the improvement was by far the best option.
I have an 11yr old and a 5yr old bowling at the momment. My 5yr old started bowling at 3, I'm not putting them under any pressure to bowl, they just love the sport. A certain State coach (on numerous occassions over the years) who has many State shirts, gave my two boys State shirts each, in which my Mother altered so that they would fit.This coach has done so much for the juniors and this gift of the shirts, jackets, not just to my boys but for other kids, is truly unselfish and from the heart, just to see these kids bowling proudly with these shirts on is priceless. They know that they didn't earn them but they all love the feeling of belonging, which in no doubt will motivate them to better and improve themselves to be the best that they can be.
I love the sport and most of the friends & people that know me and the new friends made at Moonah last year, know that I give more than 100% and always strive to improve & better myself, as so do the majority of De Veer bowlers.
Over the last 7 years I have had several serious injuries, and I'd say that 3 of those 7, I had to bowl with the opposite hand. The last incident was in April 2004, where I nearly lost my bowling thumb and a lot of skin on the back of the hand, a few operations later and I'm back bowling. As I had only bowled a few games at the beginning of that year and then 7 months later I finished off with a couple more, managed to get to 24 games at a 184ave. Having so many friends bowling De Veer at the time they suggested I try out, due to my circumstances. April 2005 last game on day one, second frame I tore part of my bicep due to no match fitness. They next day I stilled bowled 7 mores games, pretty much just pushing the ball, I nearly made the team(reserve), more therapy, back to bowling opposite hand. Yearbook average from 2004 for 2006 as I didn't bowl enough games in 2005,(another operation in Oct). Bowled in roll offs and Qualified for DeVeer "06". The look and the feeling of my fellow bowlers(from all over Aust) as we all proudly did our best for our State in a Restricted competition will never be forgot.So what!!!:-k about the shirts, they don't say State team, just Interstate Restricted Challenge.
I will wear them with pride, & the swapped ones also.
I have felt honoured by the new friendships made and people met, Peter, Joe, too many to mention, that still have a passion for the game and what it represents. I applaude Max for what he is trying to achieve for the game and the changes that would've been beneficial for the continuation of Deveer. I understand where both parties are coming from, the Elite and the Restricted, but surely you can't take away the right for anyone to compete in any sport, whether Handicapped or not, when they are performing with the best of their abilities. I was not eligible to bowl Deveer this year as my Ave was too high, but I enjoyed it so much that I was going to try and qualify with the opposite hand. I will also be trying out for Rachuig. I hope and trust that I haven't offended anyone as I was only trying to put to view a different perspective to the question.
dunryc
Long Suffering Raiders Fan
1. Not meaning to come over a being censorious but,I seem to get the impression that it's all about the shirts,
2. Here's a good one for you Jan, Here's where I would like you to comment on, Do you remember an event called Thunder Down Under in Western Australia. A handicapped competition where it was graded depending on your Average as to what category group you were placed in.
3. I knew that I wasn't an elite Australian bowler, but a representative for an Australian Team, so did I deserve the right to wear that shirt?
4. I understand where both parties are coming from, the Elite and the Restricted, but surely you can't take away the right for anyone to compete in any sport, whether Handicapped or not, when they are performing with the best of their abilities.
1. Correct, at least from my perspective. It's all about the shirts.
2. No. I moved to the US in 1991 but the way I read your description, it seems like only bowlers from WA tried out? Is that correct? If so, Hardly an Australian Team.
3. No. Real National Team Shirts are reserved for the best of the best.
4. I've never said anything about taking away anyones right to compete. In fact, I have encouraged people to bowl and support the TBA proposed tournament. Compete all you want. Bowl in any tournament you want, above, equal to or below your ability. Just don't claim state (or National) representation for bowling in WDV.
Seriously, I understand that there is a sense of pride wearing an Australian or State Shirt. I have an authentic Wallabies jersey that I wear sometimes, but do I claim I'm an Australian Rep Rugby Player? Of course not. Coaches and players give away shirts all the time. Jason gives away all his Australian Shirts when he's finished the tournament. I'm sure George and half the other Aussie Reps do to! The kids love them, and so they should. The difference is, they don't claim that they have earned them. Proud to be an Australian, absolutely, but not claiming to be an Australian Rep by competing in some less than celubrious event. I congratulate your efforts in making your little event in WA and getting your certificate or whatever it was from Carmen, but let's face it, she's a politician, and one of her lackies stuck a bunch of stuff in her face and told her to sign it, or they were autosigned by a machine. She'd sign anything that brought a bit of attention to her State. I bet she didn't have a clue what it was all about.
I admire your perseverance in sticking to the sport you love through all your injuries. We've all had our share of them. It's tough to keep going sometimes, but we do it because we love the game so much. It's because I love the game so much, that I'm so vigourously opposed to WDV wearing State Shirts and claiming Representational Status. It demeans the shirts and the players that have put in the hours, weeks, months and years of practice and competition to EARN the right to be called State and National Representatives. There is little pride left for any of the countries Elite bowlers in wearing a State Shirt when they are handed out to every Tom Dick and Henrietta who has a good weekend qualifying for WDV with very little to distinguish one shirt from another, especially to the casual observer. I've seen WDV bowlers wearing their shirts and jackets at malls, restaurants, markets, movies, all on non tournament days. If they have to wear them bowling, that's one thing, but why do they constantly wear them at every other opportunity? Is it pride? I think not. Is it to give a false impression that they are a State Rep, yes. It's an embarrassment and I for one am sick of seeing it. TBA aren't taking away your tournament, they are taking away the opportunity for the WDV to pass themselves off as State Players. The tournament has been expanded and in every other aspect, increased your potential to have fun, make friends, enjoy competition, and even added some prize money which wasn't there before, all they have done is remove the connotations of State Representation that has been abused and misrepresented long enough.
Jan
