SANDBAGGERS

what can or should be down


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We are in the process of trying to eliminate the sandbaggers - You know the proffessional ones that seem to win all the hcp tournaments with a 230+ hcp ave - in other words a good 40 pins plus over there entering ave consistantly

We are going to give them a tournament ave - ie regrade them based on their ave that they bowl in tournaments over a minimum number of games - you be suprised at the significant difference in averages.

Will we lose bowlers - maybe - In my eyes sandbaggers are the equivalent of drug cheats in any other sport - At least drug cheats can get caught and soon so will the sandbaggers.
 
We are in the process of trying to eliminate the sandbaggers - You know the proffessional ones that seem to win all the hcp tournaments with a 230+ hcp ave - in other words a good 40 pins plus over there entering ave consistantly

We are going to give them a tournament ave - ie regrade them based on their ave that they bowl in tournaments over a minimum number of games - you be suprised at the significant difference in averages.

Will we lose bowlers - maybe - In my eyes sandbaggers are the equivalent of drug cheats in any other sport - At least drug cheats can get caught and soon so will the sandbaggers.

I think that is a fair move.
 
In the old days there used to be "Year Average Books" which showed every League and every bowler and ALL averages that could be verified. All centres used to submit these end of season averages and it was very simple to keep track of every bowler and ALL their averages no matter what League they bowled in. Even if the league was not sanctioned these averages would still be available for ALL to see. Since TBA has come on board all these things have been done away with & therefore it becomes harder and harder to check bowlers averages. If you rang some centre in March or April trying to confirm average for certain bowlers from the previous season you might find all those records have been deleted from their computers and sometime not even a hard copy kept for future reference.

TBA as the National body should be requesting Copies of final standing sheets from every League in every Centre in Australia and should be recorded on their web site and updated everytime a league has finished their season.

Originally it was suggested to TBA board a few years back that all league and Tournament scores should be collated and One (1) composite average declared for each bowler. This would then bring ALL bowlers in line with a much FAIRER average to be used for any HCP Tournament through out Australia. :cool:
 
Originally it was suggested to TBA board a few years back that all league and Tournament scores should be collated and One (1) composite average declared for each bowler. This would then bring ALL bowlers in line with a much FAIRER average to be used for any HCP Tournament through out Australia. :cool:

Except how would that work if someone bowls half their tournaments or even leagues on sport shots, their average will not be on par with someone who bowls exclusively at "ditch". Therefore if the sport shot bowler averages 180 and then bowls a handicap tournament and consistently shoots 210 average, everyone is going to call them a sandbagger.

You will never make everyone happy where handicaps are involved. In fact you will never make everyone happy - period.
 
wtf 227 scratch ave with a 148 entering ave must have just had a good day or he must have bowled with his real hand that day.
 
Fair enough everyone is capable of having a good day every now and then - but a low game of 199 (51 over ave) over 10 games? wtf?!
 
Yeah this is what im saying, btw the person who won actually defended the title they won last year. I can accept a 30 pin above avg effort over 10 games but 80 pins is just not possible.
 
thats just wrong. actually its embarrassing, how would you feel accepting the trophy or money after entering that average....

who would roll up to a league every week to deliberatly miss spares in order to maintain a 150avg.... gee if they dont like their money they pay each week they can give it to me.
 
thats just wrong. actually its embarrassing, how would you feel accepting the trophy or money after entering that average....

who would roll up to a league every week to deliberatly miss spares in order to maintain a 150avg.... gee if they dont like their money they pay each week they can give it to me.

Well like I said thats the 2nd year in a row the bowler has won the NSW restricted masters. I dont know the details from last year, if anyone has them post them here. But what I do know is they didnt have a problem with it last year and they obviously didnt have an issue with it this time around either.

There has got to be a way to stop this sort of behaviour
 
Well like I said thats the 2nd year in a row the bowler has won the NSW restricted masters. I dont know the details from last year, if anyone has them post them here. But what I do know is they didnt have a problem with it last year and they obviously didnt have an issue with it this time around either.

There has got to be a way to stop this sort of behaviour

Last years standings would be interesting to compare to this years to see how many of the people who didnt win backed up to be beaten by him this year again.

I know i wouldnt waste my money.
 
Sandgbaggers spoil it for everyone. I remember in 2004 when the rules for De Veer were changed and it was brought in that bowlers would be re-averaged after bowling their all events. This was done with good intention to stamp out sandbaggers. Many of us knew when that rule was brought in that whilst the majority of bowlers would do the right thing and bowl their best in all events some would not. At that time I lived in north QLD and to me personally it felt like a slap in the face for the following reasons. My first year of De Veer we tried out for teams, the teams were announced in February which then gave you until October to train hard and try to improve so when De Veer came around you could bowl as much over your average as possible. This system felt fair, those who worked hardest would have the advantage and why shouldn't they? The NQ team had at least 3 training sessions which involved either an 8hr or 16 hour round trip out of town for two days of bowling, along with the associated costs and the second year it all just felt like a big wast of time. Whilst neither myself nor my friends considered sandbagging it was disheartening to know after several of our team bowled well in all events we didn't stand a chance in De Veer.

My point is somehow we need to get rid of sandbaggers but we also need to be encouraging bowlers to improve, not penalising them for working hard to do so. How many bowlers both scratch and handicap will put in a little extra work before a big comp in order to lift their game and improve their chances?

It does sometimes happen that a bowler can improve a substantial amount of pins suddenly, for example through new equipment or coaching and sandbaggers cast the shadow of suspicion over these innocent people and that is rather unfair. I wonder would it help clear these people if perhaps anyone bowling more than 30 pins over average in a comp was asked to explain? Maybe they have to fill out a form or something stating how/why they achieved such a result, providing the name of their coach if relevant who can then verify hours put into training or showing proof of purchase of new equipment, rather than simply verifying their league average perhaps take a closer look to see if their game scores have been improving recently, which may not show up simply in the average especially towards the end of a season etc etc. Anyone who can be proven to have sandbagged should be banned from all future competitions.

I truly don't know what else can be done to the sandbaggers without hurting other innocent parties.
 
Forget handicaps. Make everything scratch. Only way to truly stamp out the sandbaggers.
 
I don't see why it wouldn't work with leagues. Eliminate the handicaps and sandbaggers go with it. What a great incentive to improve your game. :D

OI! You stole my bug! LOL
 
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