Rule changes Poll
- Thread starter tonx
- Start date
griggsy
New Member
imho, i still dont think the equipment is souly the problem, i know it has made a huge leap in the scoring casim but it isnt just the proble, i feel it is still more to do with the fact that lane conditions are becoming way too easy, especially for our elite bowler like belmo, george and the like. a restriction on equipment will hold scoring off only for a short while til these sort of people quickly adjust. there needs to be something more. i feel some one like mr chester would be able to shed some light on this with his wealth of experience from the usa and his involvement in the game. the only thing is, australia now needs to be open to suggestion and willing to try. hopefully though with the changes that may be made it only fuels peoples passion for the game and not extinguish it.
jason
jason
B
Birkett
i have to say the pins and gutter depth have 2 be made, make the gutters deeper so the ball has no chance of flying out and hitting the table, and make the pins non-sinthetic! i know we all like the pins to bounce and have more chance of a 300, but isnt getting a perfect game 2 easy now?
Lane conditions dictate the scoring and who wins. The lane conditions of today were illegal in years gone by. Ask those that have had a 300 not approved because the oil pattern was incorrect.
In the sports series event I bowled in yesterday it was hard no matter what ball you bowled with. If you bowled the ball well you scored, if you missed you missed.
I remember reading a golf article where it said golfers are a strange bunch. They will pay a premium to play on a course that is really difficult, water - sand, rough so deep you could lose your playing partner.
The equipment in golf has been improved so now they play on 500 yard par 4's - it's that simple. Didn't you watch the US Open last week.
Enjoy .....
In the sports series event I bowled in yesterday it was hard no matter what ball you bowled with. If you bowled the ball well you scored, if you missed you missed.
I remember reading a golf article where it said golfers are a strange bunch. They will pay a premium to play on a course that is really difficult, water - sand, rough so deep you could lose your playing partner.
The equipment in golf has been improved so now they play on 500 yard par 4's - it's that simple. Didn't you watch the US Open last week.
Enjoy .....
D
Ducati 851
Couldnt agree more, my friend said with some tournaments overseas, theyve been laying a house pattern or close to it, for qualifiers, but after thatits all sprts shot, and he said most matchplays and really close and more exciting aswell, aswell someone mentioned 300's , years ago this was a huge thing to get a 300, it seems ones being thrown every week, just look at the ladies classic, and then look at the sports series scores, ben andawb shot one 260 each, and carl shot 248, and nothing else was shot over 230 i dont think
Gutter rat
Member
I think they should make the sports condition standard for all competitions . I bowled my highest game of 246 and lowest of 147 in the same block.Thought i had it right but i was wrong. So its good to have testing conditions instead of throwing it out wide and hitting the pocket everytime.
D
Ducati 851
Yeah couldnt of happened to a better guy paul...lol just kidding, 4th highest game of the day, got to be happy with that 
SNEEZY
Member
I think they should bring in some standard to level the playing field in technology that is out there. What I mean by this is the type of balls people use, wrist gards, etc.
I must say I have never seen anybody do this yet but try and compare Tenpin Bowling to F1 Racing. Ok before anyone say anything they are two totally different things all together (so what - so is golf). In F1 Racing or any other type of racing it all depends on money that the manufacturers have and what they do with it. If you put any driver in a ferrari then they will blitz the field. Put Michael Schumacher in a Minardi or Sauber (who ever the back runners are). It is most likely he will either come mid field or bow out of the race due to mechanical problems.
Now put the same theory in practice in bowling. Give australias top bowlers a house ball or a hardcase ball to bowl with for the whole tournament and see what average they bowl. There average would come down from around 225+ to around maybe 170 or 180. Give the bowlers that usually average 160 or 170 in a tournament the balls that Australias top bowlers use and the tables would be turned the other way.
What I am trying to say is that in the past bowling was a game of skill and perfection where the bowler was required to put the work on the ball to make it turn and you could probably buy a new ball for around 60 or 70 dollars. Now, a bowler has a choice of so many different types of bowling balls and the technical shit that goes with it you need a degree in physics and chemistry just to understand the dynamics of the ball and how it works.
It all comes down to how much money a bowler has to buy a new ball and other equipment and how often that bowler can buy such equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if the top bowlers in Australia and overseas are renewing there equipment at least 2 maybe 3 times a year just so that they are bowling with "A" the latest technology and "B" a bowling ball with a fresh surface.
I don't mind rule changes but the rules need to be looked at in all aspects of the game. Also the technology standard in things like pins, lanes, balls, oiling patterns, etc. need to be looked at and brought into line with each other in a hope to level out the playing field and to be more competative.
Just my thoughts.
I must say I have never seen anybody do this yet but try and compare Tenpin Bowling to F1 Racing. Ok before anyone say anything they are two totally different things all together (so what - so is golf). In F1 Racing or any other type of racing it all depends on money that the manufacturers have and what they do with it. If you put any driver in a ferrari then they will blitz the field. Put Michael Schumacher in a Minardi or Sauber (who ever the back runners are). It is most likely he will either come mid field or bow out of the race due to mechanical problems.
Now put the same theory in practice in bowling. Give australias top bowlers a house ball or a hardcase ball to bowl with for the whole tournament and see what average they bowl. There average would come down from around 225+ to around maybe 170 or 180. Give the bowlers that usually average 160 or 170 in a tournament the balls that Australias top bowlers use and the tables would be turned the other way.
What I am trying to say is that in the past bowling was a game of skill and perfection where the bowler was required to put the work on the ball to make it turn and you could probably buy a new ball for around 60 or 70 dollars. Now, a bowler has a choice of so many different types of bowling balls and the technical shit that goes with it you need a degree in physics and chemistry just to understand the dynamics of the ball and how it works.
It all comes down to how much money a bowler has to buy a new ball and other equipment and how often that bowler can buy such equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if the top bowlers in Australia and overseas are renewing there equipment at least 2 maybe 3 times a year just so that they are bowling with "A" the latest technology and "B" a bowling ball with a fresh surface.
I don't mind rule changes but the rules need to be looked at in all aspects of the game. Also the technology standard in things like pins, lanes, balls, oiling patterns, etc. need to be looked at and brought into line with each other in a hope to level out the playing field and to be more competative.
Just my thoughts.
Ice
Member
I don't agree 100% with this theory I am afraid. I take full responsibility for my own performance and don't believe having someone slap the most technologically advanced ball around in my hand is going to make that much of a difference to my scores. I as a bowler would have to learn how to effectively use that piece of equipment and sure may improve my scores marginally, but I don't think it would be that drastic a change.
I do believe lane conditions play more of a part. As an example of this you only have to look at some centres, such as where I bowl, look at highest league averages, (someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe we have a bowler with a 200 average!) and how many 300's are being bowled. Where I bowl it has been a long time since one was bowled, I dare say years and I dare say you could almost count the 300's bowled here ever on one hand! Also look at the Open results here as opposed to the Open results in the nearby town. The same people turned up to bowl, a few 300's at one centre but none here. The facts pretty much speak for themselves I think.
Easy Tiger
Active Member
Personally, I think the sport of bowling needs the bowlers to stop blaming everything and everyone for why it's less popular now than it used to be.
Scores have skyrocketed since the late 80s/early 90s - fact. We all accept that, so then we try to establish the problem which we feel needs to be solved, and everyone has a different opinion. This creates a multitude of problems in itself, because you will never get everyone to agree.
Forget telling the ball companies to change the way they produce bowling balls, that will achieve nothing for the sport. Keep the current restrictions as they are and leave it at that with regards to ball cores/surfaces/RG and Diff. Plastics appear to be getting brought up fairly often in this topic - forget about plastics - that is history. Bowling won't go forward if you keep looking back at the "glory days" of the sport. Sure using a plastic is more difficult and lowers scores, but let's be realistic - we're not going back to plastics. And even if we did, would it really increase the credibility of the sport? Others may have a different opinion on that, but I highly doubt that it would.
Restricting drilling layouts to CG within 1" of the centre of grip and not being allowed a balance hole is fruitless. It may give advantage to some bowling styles, and disadvantage to others, and that's about the extent of it. It will not benefit the credibility of the sport, and I believe it is more likely to further harm it. Some claim that it makes very little difference to the reaction of the ball. Whether it does or it doesn't, either a type of bowling style will become more dominant over the other, or it will not make any significant difference to anyone. Therefore, what's the point either way.
Once again we come back to what really matters - lane conditions. How many new-fangled technology-over-burdened top of the line bowling balls helped bowlers in the sports series here on Sunday? Looking at the scores, it can't have helped much. Change the lane conditions and scores will either go up or down as desired - end of story. You can increase flatgutter depth - yes, and that will have some effect on carry and scoring, so maybe that could be looked at as well - but the critical factor is lane conditions.
If bowling as a sport is to go forward, it needs to be pushed at every level of the market. Social, social-league, competitive-league, and tournament level all need to be pushed and marketed. Without social bowling you get very few new additions to leagues. Most people that start leagues, especially at a young age, do not go into competitive leagues straight away, they go for the fun purely. From there, those that have the desire to excel and get better at bowling seek coaching and more competitive leagues, and from that tournament players are produced. How does this fit in with increasing the credibility of the sport? In every way that matters most. If all people see and hear are negatives, whinging, bad-behaviour, foul behaviour on the lanes in their local centre, how many are likely to go up to the counter and say "I want to bowl, that really inspired me". The arguement raised over and over again, such as in this topic, is that high scoring is what has destroyed the sports' credibility. What I'm saying is that let's look at the other things too - the things that people actually see and hear. A potential league-bowler wouldn't know that last week George or Belmo or Brando shot 247 average for an entire tournament.
I agree that scoring in many situations has become rediculous, welcome to technology. By all means change the guidelines for tournament and league play with regards to lane conditions, but why bother with the other stuff? If you make it so that bowlers only have one board to hit - you've achieved the aim of this topic - scoring credibility. If you can throw a 250 average by having one board to hit to score, in my opinion you deserve the 250 average. If the credibilty of the sport is to be built up again, just don't forget the other factors like behaviour, unity, and good-marketing. Advertise leagues sometimes instead of some 2 year old kid with bumpers and a nappy with an adult throwing a 14 pound ball straight into the bumpers at your local AMF centre. Show Belmo, Brando, George, Frawls, Cara, those sort of people in the ads to show that hey this is actually a sport and there a side of it apart from throwing a house ball into bumpers with disco lights and loud music.
I am sick and tired of hearing from non-bowlers - "bowling's not a sport", and then having them refer to cosmic bowling. Get some decent advertisments. Who knows, over time credibility might increase.
Scores have skyrocketed since the late 80s/early 90s - fact. We all accept that, so then we try to establish the problem which we feel needs to be solved, and everyone has a different opinion. This creates a multitude of problems in itself, because you will never get everyone to agree.
Forget telling the ball companies to change the way they produce bowling balls, that will achieve nothing for the sport. Keep the current restrictions as they are and leave it at that with regards to ball cores/surfaces/RG and Diff. Plastics appear to be getting brought up fairly often in this topic - forget about plastics - that is history. Bowling won't go forward if you keep looking back at the "glory days" of the sport. Sure using a plastic is more difficult and lowers scores, but let's be realistic - we're not going back to plastics. And even if we did, would it really increase the credibility of the sport? Others may have a different opinion on that, but I highly doubt that it would.
Restricting drilling layouts to CG within 1" of the centre of grip and not being allowed a balance hole is fruitless. It may give advantage to some bowling styles, and disadvantage to others, and that's about the extent of it. It will not benefit the credibility of the sport, and I believe it is more likely to further harm it. Some claim that it makes very little difference to the reaction of the ball. Whether it does or it doesn't, either a type of bowling style will become more dominant over the other, or it will not make any significant difference to anyone. Therefore, what's the point either way.
Once again we come back to what really matters - lane conditions. How many new-fangled technology-over-burdened top of the line bowling balls helped bowlers in the sports series here on Sunday? Looking at the scores, it can't have helped much. Change the lane conditions and scores will either go up or down as desired - end of story. You can increase flatgutter depth - yes, and that will have some effect on carry and scoring, so maybe that could be looked at as well - but the critical factor is lane conditions.
If bowling as a sport is to go forward, it needs to be pushed at every level of the market. Social, social-league, competitive-league, and tournament level all need to be pushed and marketed. Without social bowling you get very few new additions to leagues. Most people that start leagues, especially at a young age, do not go into competitive leagues straight away, they go for the fun purely. From there, those that have the desire to excel and get better at bowling seek coaching and more competitive leagues, and from that tournament players are produced. How does this fit in with increasing the credibility of the sport? In every way that matters most. If all people see and hear are negatives, whinging, bad-behaviour, foul behaviour on the lanes in their local centre, how many are likely to go up to the counter and say "I want to bowl, that really inspired me". The arguement raised over and over again, such as in this topic, is that high scoring is what has destroyed the sports' credibility. What I'm saying is that let's look at the other things too - the things that people actually see and hear. A potential league-bowler wouldn't know that last week George or Belmo or Brando shot 247 average for an entire tournament.
I agree that scoring in many situations has become rediculous, welcome to technology. By all means change the guidelines for tournament and league play with regards to lane conditions, but why bother with the other stuff? If you make it so that bowlers only have one board to hit - you've achieved the aim of this topic - scoring credibility. If you can throw a 250 average by having one board to hit to score, in my opinion you deserve the 250 average. If the credibilty of the sport is to be built up again, just don't forget the other factors like behaviour, unity, and good-marketing. Advertise leagues sometimes instead of some 2 year old kid with bumpers and a nappy with an adult throwing a 14 pound ball straight into the bumpers at your local AMF centre. Show Belmo, Brando, George, Frawls, Cara, those sort of people in the ads to show that hey this is actually a sport and there a side of it apart from throwing a house ball into bumpers with disco lights and loud music.
I am sick and tired of hearing from non-bowlers - "bowling's not a sport", and then having them refer to cosmic bowling. Get some decent advertisments. Who knows, over time credibility might increase.
SNEEZY
Member
ICE, you would be amazed at what you may do with a different ball in your hand.
Those that bowl in tournaments such as the super six and the like would and should have a fairly good knowledge of the game no to mention confidence to at least give tournaments such as these a go. What I am trying to say is that those with the lower averages would be more evenly matched if they were using the same technologically advanced balls as our top australian bowlers. Just because you have a different ball in you hand doesn't mean you just forget about how to bowl, bowlers should be able to use their brains and adjust. Ok, maybe it may take time to get used to a new ball but it shouldn't take long. Bowlers should be able to adjust with lesser technologically advanced balls as well but with the oil patterns out there today in tournaments it can be very limiting on some balls as well as being much more difficult to adjust with a ball that gives little pin action or back end. Soluntion buy a ball that cost 3 or 4 hundred dollars that has high flare and backend therefore given yourself a bigger target to aim at with more pin action.
Just my thoughts!!
Those that bowl in tournaments such as the super six and the like would and should have a fairly good knowledge of the game no to mention confidence to at least give tournaments such as these a go. What I am trying to say is that those with the lower averages would be more evenly matched if they were using the same technologically advanced balls as our top australian bowlers. Just because you have a different ball in you hand doesn't mean you just forget about how to bowl, bowlers should be able to use their brains and adjust. Ok, maybe it may take time to get used to a new ball but it shouldn't take long. Bowlers should be able to adjust with lesser technologically advanced balls as well but with the oil patterns out there today in tournaments it can be very limiting on some balls as well as being much more difficult to adjust with a ball that gives little pin action or back end. Soluntion buy a ball that cost 3 or 4 hundred dollars that has high flare and backend therefore given yourself a bigger target to aim at with more pin action.
Just my thoughts!!
The chances of anything happening which has a dramatic effect on ball manufacturers is slim. They have a monopoly on the sport (of which they do contribute), for a governing body to run the risk of having companies pull out (because, in the end, the major companies can just get together and say, right, we are withdrawing from anything associated with professional bowling), it's just too great.
Nothings going to change in a hurry, it would be great to see some more advancements in the lane surface and conditioning fields. With the availability of materials we have in this day and age, and with the budgets big companies like brunswick have, surely there has to be something new they can develop which will decrease friction on the surface of the lane. Hell a matt full of fibre, glass and ptfe components has got to have a massive effect on the friction coefficients.
I just cant believe they havent developed something (either now or in the past) which would offset the technology advancements balls have achieved in the past 30 years.
Of course, i think it is an absurd idea to think that this has any effect on our core of bowlers, too much blame is shifted, too many people have big ego's and nobody is prepared to stand up and be held accountible these days. There are a select few who have the heart and the drive to do something about it (and they are doing so), but they are a minority.
The future of bowling does not rest with the upper level of our sport, there are too many problems lower at center and association levels which need to be addressed in order to provide a stable environment and promote a growth in bowler numbers. Starting at the top of the tree isnt going to get anyone, anywhere, all you will end up with is it all falling over again.
Nothings going to change in a hurry, it would be great to see some more advancements in the lane surface and conditioning fields. With the availability of materials we have in this day and age, and with the budgets big companies like brunswick have, surely there has to be something new they can develop which will decrease friction on the surface of the lane. Hell a matt full of fibre, glass and ptfe components has got to have a massive effect on the friction coefficients.
I just cant believe they havent developed something (either now or in the past) which would offset the technology advancements balls have achieved in the past 30 years.
Of course, i think it is an absurd idea to think that this has any effect on our core of bowlers, too much blame is shifted, too many people have big ego's and nobody is prepared to stand up and be held accountible these days. There are a select few who have the heart and the drive to do something about it (and they are doing so), but they are a minority.
The future of bowling does not rest with the upper level of our sport, there are too many problems lower at center and association levels which need to be addressed in order to provide a stable environment and promote a growth in bowler numbers. Starting at the top of the tree isnt going to get anyone, anywhere, all you will end up with is it all falling over again.
Tiger
Active Member
*'TOPHER* said:you could always just buy new pins everyweek
Ahhh yes, left a few on Saturday. Give them a few weeks they'll settle down
I remember the new ones they put in back in 2002, the first night they used 'em was the Southern Dash for Cash tournament, I had nineteen 10-pins in the first 25 shots in the tournament.
Had a dreadful night on the spares missed about six of them and lost the tournament by about 25 pins
They settled pretty quickly.
