Rachuig.

[da_cowman]

Rather than dropping from 7 to 6 bowlers I would have suggested that they impose a minimum games quota per day for all bowlers to play. I don't see an issue with this as you are taking a team of 7 and not an elite 5 plus two (sorry unless you are NSW; couldn't resist the dig). I would suggest 2 games per day leaving states with the option to field their strongest lineups after the quota is met.

This would have solved the problem of people not trying out because they may not get a run.

I believe most bowlers would agree that the five person team format is still the best and most challenging format in our sport.

Rachuig IS our ELITE competition. Each state should be encouraged to try and find a way to take their ELITE bowlers. Whether that's 2+4 bowlers, or 5+1 bowlers. (I'll ignore the dig)
I think the move to six bowlers is a great move, I'd prefer to see 5. Minimum games quota is just not right for our ELITE competition. It's almost like adding handicap. We ain't there to be fair to everyone, we're there to find out which State is the best. No if's and but's about it. With only 6 in the team, people will know that, if they do make it/get selected/draft to a team that their chances of bowling more games is higher. This seems to be one of the main points, and I just don't see how it's justified with 7 bowlers. Take 5 and guarantee everyone 18 games! Problem solved!
I still don't see how new blood is stopped from getting into the teams. If you're good enough, you'll make it. It's not about bringing in new players for the sake of it, it's about bringing the best 6 you can. Maybe state's need to review their selection policy. A one weekend roll off is old and boring, a two weekend roll off is only slightly better. You want the best, the states need to work out a selection policy which enables the best to bowl. Whether that's through selection with a transparent criteria over a decent period of time, or a closed room selection committee picking whoever they want.

It's up to us to decide, and make the best of this. It's our ELITE competition, how can we keep it that way? Taking a maximum of 6 bowlers, is in my opinion a move in the right direction. We're talking about representing your state here, not your centre. It's not about being fair to every Joe Blow. It's about fielding the best team you can. Even if that does mean NSW wins every year (sorry, couldn't resist the dig...).

Cow

 

[RobbieB]

"it simply makes it harder for new blood to be introduced"

A few statements that have drawn my attention from this post. Can anyone, either the people that posted these above statements, or anyone else in agreement with these statements provide more insight as to why?

Not having a go, I just want to see the reasons behind them, not just 'It's my opinion.' Why are they your opinion?

Hi Cow,
The new blood one was mine, so:
A team of 7 allows selection of a bowler who, on form/scores/whatever does not 'deserve' to be in the team, but who the selectors see as a long term prospect for the future. Gets them exposed to the atmosphere of Rachuig without really weakening the team if their skillset or mental game is not quite there yet. With six, you really cannot afford to gamble as much on new blood. I just think it will make it more difficult for newer or less well known bowlers to get into a squad.


On a different point, regarding minimum games - with 6, it makes it even more of an impost if there is an injury or someone in poor form. Each team should be allowed to put their best five out there every game. It should also be noted that each State currently has the option to only take 6 (or even 5!) bowlers if they wish.

 

[bluey]

Hey Cow, l don't recall seeing NSW on the podium last year? Maybe you guys should be asking to take 8 bowlers, 7 couldn't get it done.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

My only statement on this debate which is the same I have always beaten my head against the brick wall with:

Keep the 5 man team matchplay format and bowl your best 5 til they drop!

 

[Geoff300]

Rachuig IS our ELITE competition. Each state should be encouraged to try and find a way to take their ELITE bowlers. Whether that's 2+4 bowlers, or 5+1 bowlers. (I'll ignore the dig)
I think the move to six bowlers is a great move, I'd prefer to see 5. Minimum games quota is just not right for our ELITE competition. It's almost like adding handicap. We ain't there to be fair to everyone, we're there to find out which State is the best. No if's and but's about it. With only 6 in the team, people will know that, if they do make it/get selected/draft to a team that their chances of bowling more games is higher. This seems to be one of the main points, and I just don't see how it's justified with 7 bowlers. Take 5 and guarantee everyone 18 games! Problem solved!
I still don't see how new blood is stopped from getting into the teams. If you're good enough, you'll make it. It's not about bringing in new players for the sake of it, it's about bringing the best 6 you can. Maybe state's need to review their selection policy. A one weekend roll off is old and boring, a two weekend roll off is only slightly better. You want the best, the states need to work out a selection policy which enables the best to bowl. Whether that's through selection with a transparent criteria over a decent period of time, or a closed room selection committee picking whoever they want.

It's up to us to decide, and make the best of this. It's our ELITE competition, how can we keep it that way? Taking a maximum of 6 bowlers, is in my opinion a move in the right direction. We're talking about representing your state here, not your centre. It's not about being fair to every Joe Blow. It's about fielding the best team you can. Even if that does mean NSW wins every year (sorry, couldn't resist the dig...).

Cow

Well said !!!!

 

[Geoff300]

Hi Cow,
The new blood one was mine, so:
A team of 7 allows selection of a bowler who, on form/scores/whatever does not 'deserve' to be in the team, but who the selectors see as a long term prospect for the future. Gets them exposed to the atmosphere of Rachuig without really weakening the team if their skillset or mental game is not quite there yet. With six, you really cannot afford to gamble as much on new blood. I just think it will make it more difficult for newer or less well known bowlers to get into a squad.


On a different point, regarding minimum games - with 6, it makes it even more of an impost if there is an injury or someone in poor form. Each team should be allowed to put their best five out there every game. It should also be noted that each State currently has the option to only take 6 (or even 5!) bowlers if they wish.

I get your drift

The point is that presently representative Bowling needs to be seriously
looked at to get people more serious about wanting to be involved

My view is we select a Team for NSW and go with that, no roll off
and run 2 x 2 day camps for the team and get them ready, not just
free practice games in your centre

When we do well , and we will , we will get more bowlers wanting
to be part of it then we may be in a position to change what we do

As for National Teams, I would select a team captain and then select the team with a suitable committee.

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

Rachuig IS our ELITE competition. Each state should be encouraged to try and find a way to take their ELITE bowlers. Whether that's 2+4 bowlers, or 5+1 bowlers. (I'll ignore the dig)
I think the move to six bowlers is a great move, I'd prefer to see 5. Minimum games quota is just not right for our ELITE competition. It's almost like adding handicap. We ain't there to be fair to everyone, we're there to find out which State is the best. No if's and but's about it. With only 6 in the team, people will know that, if they do make it/get selected/draft to a team that their chances of bowling more games is higher. This seems to be one of the main points, and I just don't see how it's justified with 7 bowlers. Take 5 and guarantee everyone 18 games! Problem solved!
I still don't see how new blood is stopped from getting into the teams. If you're good enough, you'll make it. It's not about bringing in new players for the sake of it, it's about bringing the best 6 you can. Maybe state's need to review their selection policy. A one weekend roll off is old and boring, a two weekend roll off is only slightly better. You want the best, the states need to work out a selection policy which enables the best to bowl. Whether that's through selection with a transparent criteria over a decent period of time, or a closed room selection committee picking whoever they want.

It's up to us to decide, and make the best of this. It's our ELITE competition, how can we keep it that way? Taking a maximum of 6 bowlers, is in my opinion a move in the right direction. We're talking about representing your state here, not your centre. It's not about being fair to every Joe Blow. It's about fielding the best team you can. Even if that does mean NSW wins every year (sorry, couldn't resist the dig...).

Cow

Well said Cronie.

 

[rambo1]

i think selection is a great idea let all the elite bowlers apply & then let the applicants pick the best team (NO BIAS IN THAT) the bowlers should know who would be best for the team

 

[chucker]

Totally agree with Cow.
This is not an event where minumum games should even be bought up?

i think selection is a great idea let all the elite bowlers apply & then let the applicants pick the best team (NO BIAS IN THAT) the bowlers should know who would be best for the team
another great idea.

Its suposed to be an elite event lets at least try and make it one like other elite sports in this country where selection is the norm?

 

[da_cowman]

"On a different point, regarding minimum games - with 6, it makes it even more of an impost if there is an injury or someone in poor form. Each team should be allowed to put their best five out there every game. It should also be noted that each State currently has the option to only take 6 (or even 5!) bowlers if they wish."

Rob,

Ok, if someone gets injured? Should we really be thinking like that? What if your car doesn't start? If your balls don't turn up? If your microwave stops working? If your boss fires you? If your house gets robbed?... I can go on forever here.
If's aren't an argument, I'm sorry. If is just being scared. Injuries happen, you got another bowler. How many serious injuries have occured in Rachuig? I honestly don't know... Anyone have some numbers or know of people??? I'm sure it's happened, but we can't live being scared of that chance.
I can't honestly believe you brought up form... It's about making it happen on those 3 days... You either step up and become everything you can for your state, or you give it everything you can anyway. If you're out of form, then do everything else you can to help your team. There's so much more to team play then just rolling a ball down the lane and knocking over 10 wooden things.

Again, I'm not being personal here. I'd just love to see Rachuig return to it's former glory, I've heard so many amazing stories and I would love to be apart of them one day. For that to happen, we obviously need to change something. Moving to a maximum of 6, I believe is the first step in getting that massive wheel rolling.

Cow

P.S. Bluey, you obviously didn't look hard enough. I believe the Women were yet again champions. I could be wrong however...

 

[jockey]

I'd like to say this and let me be proved wrong:

If selection was brought in as the only criteria for representing your state in Rachuig then well Rachuig will be dead and buried just like our national circuit is at the moment.

You need to earn your spot not live on past glories. Otherwise their would never be any new bowlers for any state, or of course until someone dies and they have to be replaced!

If you want to represent your state badly enough you will be there for the rolloff otherwise why do you deserve a spot in front of someone who has turned up to bowl when they were expected to. Rolloffs should not clash with any other event either local, interstate or international that way its be there or don't expect to be in the state team.

 

[bluey]

Sorry Cow, l once again had my left handers glasses on. NSW women were on the podium.

 

[RobbieB]

Cow,
What I am saying is that if there is a minimum game quota imposed, what do you do if there is an injury? It makes it hard enough with one player out of the lineup, but if the rules force someone to bowl with an injury, what happens then?

There is precedent - as I said, the Qld Inv girls only had 5 fit players on the last day last year.

You also said: "If you're out of form, then do everything else you can to help your team." Exactly. Everything ELSE. Put your best five out there, not the five you have to because of some idiotic quota system.

 

[Andrew S.]

Unfortunately it wont really change anything by debating the 6 v 7 issue. Its a done deal and hopefully they will give it a fair trial of not just this year but also maybe the next two years as well.
That will at least give feedback and allow us to assess nomination numbers.

Regarding the selection, there will always be the roll-off v selection argument.
My own thoughts are that a State Team could be selected from a hand picked squad of say 12 or 14 Bowlers. (the number is not really important)

Take into account current performances and form and pick the top 6 much closer to the event.

This probably wont happen in my lifetime but it is a well proven method adopted by many more successful sports than ours.

Until then the next best and fairest option has to be roll-off.

 

[Geoff300]

I'd like to say this and let me be proved wrong:

If selection was brought in as the only criteria for representing your state in Rachuig then well Rachuig will be dead and buried just like our national circuit is at the moment.

You need to earn your spot not live on past glories. Otherwise their would never be any new bowlers for any state, or of course until someone dies and they have to be replaced!

If you want to represent your state badly enough you will be there for the rolloff otherwise why do you deserve a spot in front of someone who has turned up to bowl when they were expected to. Rolloffs should not clash with any other event either local, interstate or international that way its be there or don't expect to be in the state team.

Who said anything about the same people being in the team year in year out

I think you might be surprised how refreshing it could be

Lets face it what is happening at the moment is giving poor results
how worse coould it be

The other issue is some of the bowlers think they are too good
to need coaches and managers , which IS part of what is required
to run effective Rep tourns

 

[da_cowman]

Cow,
What I am saying is that if there is a minimum game quota imposed, what do you do if there is an injury? It makes it hard enough with one player out of the lineup, but if the rules force someone to bowl with an injury, what happens then?

There is precedent - as I said, the Qld Inv girls only had 5 fit players on the last day last year.

You also said: "If you're out of form, then do everything else you can to help your team." Exactly. Everything ELSE. Put your best five out there, not the five you have to because of some idiotic quota system.

So, you're against the quota or against the 6 bowler maximum?