question for tournament bowlers

[bfcc]

hi all i was just wondering what is happening with the local tournaments in the brisbane metro area, in that the numbers have dropped off at an alarming rate. caboolture last week ran with 40 bowlers and the brisbane cup as of 10 am today only had 27 entries.

is it just that everyone is broke and can not afford to bowl or is the conditions that centre's are putting down or are the entry fees to expensive or are there other reason for the drop in numbers?

would like to get some replys from bowlers who have stopped bowling tournaments and remember managers and tournament directors read this forum so maybe we can use this to tell them why the numbers are dropping.

i think this is a serious problem and needs to be addressed or the tournaments will die!!

 

[craig]

when i moved up here, i was very keen to get back into tournament bowling, seeing i had been near isolated from main stream bowling for the past 5 years.

bowled at mt gravatt 3 times, showcase open and mt gravatt cup lanes were dry, scores were high, didn't carry well, 1 koolfoam reverse block both very tough scoring.

bowled at caboolture (non amf) 3 times, shot the card every time, no money, high scores but no carry

kedron cashed both times, lanes were nearly unplayable, got money through good spare shooting averaged 190 and 188 for a 4th and an 8th.

cannon hill 3 times, cashed in all, big swing shot, but the power shot carries a bit better than the strokers, still on the dry side.

at this stage, i had ran 8th in the grand prix series and was happy with my bowling

redcliffe, booked in for "b" squad to start at 9 on the saturday, the tech walks in at 8.30 with his newspaper, pulls out the century it breaksdown halfway down lane 1, waited for an hour and a half, for them to get kedrons machine over, i think 15 of the 20 that cut bowled the friday night squad, and about 5 guys got injuries in matchplay from trying to get the ball down the lane.

after that scmozzle, i decided to pack my balls in my bag and call it a day, then 12 months later i tried again

2nd time at redcliffe 213 ave, missed the cut by a mile.

then like everyone, paid my $275 for koolfoam and got poor conditioned lanes, and then decided again to call it a day

i am keen to be a tournament bowler, but until amf can get some standardisation about
what they are doing within their circuits, they will not get another cent off me.

surely there are enough people within that company, that would like to foster and promote tournament bowling, to give a **** about what has been happening, seeing that i would love to be recieving $160 a head off 100 guys, $16,000, than off 27 bowlers, PEOPLE WILL PAY & PLAY IF ITS COMPETITIVE TO
MOST, we are in a new era of bowling now, and the lanes have to be dressed accordingly, the urethane days are well and truly gone and yet it seems as though we are still fronting up for a maximum oil or buff length of 35 feet.

at least when kenny sheehan was running the circuit, he was interested in hearing your thoughts, but even his hands were tied when it came to implementing some change for the better.

bottom line is, that most centres aren't respecting the money you are giving them, and accordingly ignoring your needs

AND THATS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY ANYMORE

 

[dwambo]

Well maybe it has something to do with the super 6 events.Not that there is anything wrong with them but maybe people are saving to do this circuit because of the good numbers and the good payouts in them..
I am sure that all the local Bris. comps pay 1 in 3, and I think that the super 6 tries to pay 1 in 2(but I don't quote me on that).
Also look at how big the prizemoney is.Lets face it, the Wide Bay is surely not pulling the numbers like 2 years ago.And it seems to be the same people all the time.All the country guys have stopped travelling.And yes bfcc I do think it comes down to money for most.We all get older,get married,have kids and tie ourselves down to buying a house.But that's life and **** happens.
Now days equipment is very dear to buy and to be competitive you need to keep up with the gear which will carry the best for yourself.
So I don't think it is any one thing, but a variety which makes it tough to bowl in all or most things.But keep in mind that money makes the world go round and great carry is the name of the game!

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

 

[GaryM]

I am just starting to get onto the tournament scene(moving from TQI to TBA tournaments) and already have been put off entering anymore because of the poor turnouts for the money invested. The Youth masters was a prime example $110 entry, and only 18 bowlers entered, not bad when the cut is the top 16. The organisation of the tournament was poor too, as the stepladder was set to be held at Mt Gravatt (convienently when the junior masters was on) and had to be changed centres. After saving the money for super 6 tournaments, (which we all know are not cheap) a little experience such as this has put me off TBA tournaments, and just going for the simple TQI tornaments, and our local associations in house tournaments. Why Should I fork out Insane amounts of money when Tournaments are not organised how they should be and are not getting the numbers in.

My current opinion is that I will never bowl a TBA tournament until I KNOW they have got their act together, and are organising tournaments how they should be. Not leaving things until the last day.

I think ECC will be the biggest tournament I enter for the next few years, Because of this fact..

This is how I lost intrest in TBA organised Tournaments and why I will no longer consider them.

I've had my whinge now.

Cheers.

 

[weazal79]

I agree with craig actually. and to add to that opinion, i think that Australian oil patterns and tournaments should have standards! The reason a lot of ppl don't turn up to a lot of tournaments is because of the conditions. Take Carl for example...he never turned up to Caboolture coz they were apparently "too easy" and he doesn't bowl in Bundy coz of the apparent injury ridden conditions. My point is... there needs to be some sort of standards before any tournaments increase their entry %.

The Weazal!

 

[GeorgeF]

On small point people forgot to mention is that sometimes events clash. Like last weekend, this weekend and the next weekend. State Champs are on down the Gold Coast for the next 3 weeks and people know Legends is easy scoring and a pleasure to bowl, It won't cost you an arm and leg and you can put something decent on your resume and have some fun. On the other hand you have 3 perfectly well run tournaments which people choose to ignore or not participate in.

Caboolture was too easy (I don't think so, just other peoples opinion), Mt Gravatt was always going to offer a mystery condition (which turned out to be great) and NSW "Open offers the big money ". So when the choice came up a lot of Brisbane folk elected to save a bit of money and bowl State Champs.

I personaly chase the money and bowling at Mt Gravatt and Bankstown next week. It is unfortunate when events clash which results in the numbers dropping everywhere.

As for standards, I can honestly say that AMF has bettered there standard 2 fold through out the country. Every AMF centre I walk into has oil on the lane and to a decent length. Mt Gravatt has been a pleasure to bowl, I hope they keep this condition for next years Koolfoam.

Just my views, I'll still bowl in anything I know I can win.

 

[dwambo]

Yeah George u r surely correct about what u say.For abot the last 6 weeks there has been nothing to bowl in(except Mary's tourny at Aspley) and now there is so much going on it is incredible.
Maybe everyone can sit down and plan things out for the year a bit betta and post all the bowlers the QLD calender next year.I know this is easy to say but surely some plan can be worked out, even if some events have to be moved to different months.
But then again in saying this the bowlers have to be able to show support to the QLD bowling calender.
I think this has been a good subject to be bought to attention, and hopefully we can all benifit from this.I am sure the more positive support could help us all.

Chow

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

 

[amanda]

George,
Why are you all of a sudden crawling up AMF's butt?
You should be thanking Dennis, Frawles and Sue for the conditions you have been bowling on.
If it wasnt for the Kegle Machine you would still be bowling on the same old ****ty conditions AMF dish out.
When I read Frawles Post about Warren not wanting to use the Kegle and that Dennis had not been approached to do the lanes on the weekend, I decided AMF would not be getting my $175 this weekend.
Good Luck to all of you who are bowling on the Mystery condition this weekend at Bankstown.

 

[GeorgeF]

Amanda I am not crawling up anyones butt, I can only go on what I bowl on. I have bowled at 3 different AMF centres in the last week (in QLD) and all the centres had heaps more oil than I've ever seen at any of them. AMF Queensland are making an effort to better the standard of lane conditions in Queensland, they should be applauded for their efforts.

As for Bankstown, it is possible to put down fair and challenging conditions without a Kegle machine, it just takes a little more time and a lot more knowledge.

I bowl on whats dished out to me, sometimes I hate it and sometimes I love it. I bowl to win, I'll change my game to score as best as I can to score no matter what. I am surprised that you are not bowling, condition irrelevant of what it is, I've seen you bowl, it's about skill and knowledge. You would still place in the top 10 or so because you know how to adapt your game to the conditions, I hope you change your mind.

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

Young Weasel,

Before you start using me as an example I think you should get your facts straight. Firstly I didn't bowl at Caboolture because for me they dont have a pattern that I believe will improve or add to my game. And as for Bundaberg I've bowled each of the last 4 years only missing the second day once as I was bowling the TV show. Now sorry if my thoughts or reasons offend you or anyone else but they are exactly that MY REASONS and the only people I need to justify my bowling choices too are myself and AMF. So next time you want to target someone make sure your facts are correct before proceeding.

Secondly, as for the reason no one is bowling I only wish I had the cyrstal ball so I could find the answer. I don't think it administration or conditions honestly as we bowled on some real ugly stuff a woeful admin when the country circuit first started yet people still wantd to go. I do believe its dollars mostly and then desire falls when the money isnt as good due to lack of entries. I think it's a spiralling effect, no money to bowl, no entries, more people pull out as no entries and the monies cut. Bowling is on a bit of a roundabout which probably has to bottom out before it can improve. The question is when is the bottom going to be reached?

 

[hamo]

Why dont we bowl in tournaments? Gosh we could name a 100 things or more why we don't, but how many reasons can we give to why we do? Really 95% of us cant be doing it to make a living out of it.We do it because we love our sport,the challange it present us week in and week out not only in tournaments but in league as well.
Really what we need is ideas on everyting, from formats,prize funds and different concepts.I'm sure alot of us have ideas for tournaments and why don't we belt them out together.
To start it rolling,tournaments should be graded to encourge all to have a go.Have tournaments to suit the competitor for example: A grade,for the seasoned competitor(semi-pro league)
B grade, those who are competitive in the top grade but not on consistent basis (minor league) and so on.
We want to encourage the 180+ avg to have a go thru the grades and work his/her way to a grade they want to achieve.Really there is nothing except for the Twin Tour here in qld.
It's a very vague idea,but we have to start somewhere.Come on people give your ideas or our sport is going to die a slow and painful death.
HAMO
Tony Hamilton
p.s. Good luck to all in the N.S.W. Open and the Qld state Masters

 

[Hippy??]

It wouldn't be because you have to buy a new fangled piece of cheat ball every 2-3 weeks to be competitive would it?????????

 

[Jase]

Wow how times have changed!
I remember bowling every weekend if not in queensland somewhere interstate because i could afford to.now i haven't bowled a serious tournement for over twelve months.
I think its time we all relised that bowlers and or managers arnet the only ones scratching their heads,trying to get people through the doors of bowling centres to bowl or fill tournements.in this economic climate the whole country is hurting.the bottom line is that nobody can afford it!
It's not the management,it's not the conditions and or it's not the centres fault that nobody want to bowl,it's just plain and simple no money no bowling!
At school we were all taught about needs and wants.remember? We were taught to look after the needs first.
Well thats when things like bowling ( a want ) struggle because we dont have the money for things like that.
For example i'm a motor mechanic.now in the trade i have suppliers complaing that times are tuff,and they are!people ring day in day out for you to advertise in this and that and salesmen rock up on your door step all day every day because they're wanting youre bussiness times realy are tuff!
I recon at the moment peoples outgoings are larger than their incomes so when they have bills coming in every day of the week things like car repairs,bowling,shopping and things that can be put off for a while and will be.so it doesn't matter how many conditions are high or low scoring,the bottom line is they don,t have the money to front up.
The 21st century seems to be about exceeding the limit on our plastic perhaps centres should get together and design a bowlers credit card where people can put their entry fees on them (with an intrest rate) so they can pay them off!perhaps i'm on to something here?
Ha ha ha (but this is how the world is going)
Well i have had my bitch now so i will leave hope i have covered the topic.
Just what i think.

 

[dwambo]

Gday Jase,
Well I'm not sure about a bowling credit card,but matbe the bowling centres can come up with a reasonable idea.I agree that it has to do with money in most cases for ppl, so this is where I think that we have to cut down on top heavy prizefunds!!!!!
Maybe bowl in a tournament, with the entry fee at say $80-$100.Sure the money isn't going to be great, but lets face it, we are not in this sport to make a living out of it.
Look at Batesy's last tournament,only $100 to bowl and there was still good money to be won(well good enough in this day & age).Now the event didn't have great support this year cos there was so much happening around the same time.But I am sure the ppl who bowled, enjoyed the different format as well.
It seems that ppl want to try new formats well this I feel was a good one.Anyway,I think if the wide bay is going to go ahead then they need to restructure a few things.Or maybe cos it seems to mainly be the city ppl supporting the wide bay,the Brisbane bowling centres should get together and work out a Brisbane circuit.This way bowlers will not have to spend money on so much travel and accomidation.
If we had one of these tournaments say every 5 or 6 weeks,and then the Hammer tournie,koolfoam and maybe another major tournie in QLD/Bris, then maybe we could get the numbers back.Look at the great work that Mary has down with her tournie.....FANTASTIC!!! but maybe if the better scratch bowlers left this tournie alone for the up and coming bowlers, then we should be able to get the scratch circuit up and running again.
As for the conditions,well look at what is happening everywhere.This is the new millennium,times have changed and I think we need to enjoy getting together trying our best,in whatever we bowl in.And then afterwards sit down, have a beer and talk **** like bowlers used to do.
We all took this sport on for fun,not as a career or proffesion.
Maybe one of the managers will read this and maybe organise and invite us bowlers and we could all throw our thoughts in.
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK??...........CHOW

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

 

[GeorgeF]

Dwambo

As with every sport there are stepping stones and levels. In QLD at the moment we are faced with a situation where bowlers who should be bowling the scratch events are bowling in the Have a Ball tour. I applaud Mary for what she has built up from scratch, she has quite a series going. However, the fringe bowlers have elected to stay down a level resulting in the open tournaments numbers dropping.

He is my solution, I'm not sure if it will work but it will give the tournament organisers something to work and think about.

Level 1 - Open scratch bowlers: This includes the Brisbane AMF Circuit and Wide Bay Group series

Entry: $100 First place: $400 -$500 paying down 1:3

Level 2 - Open handicap bowlers: Have a Ball Tour

Entry: $65 First place: $300

Let's face it, it just comes down to money and whilst I'd rather collect a $800 cheque instead of $400 for winning, the aim here is to make some money on the side and build numbers on an ever decreasing touranment numbers. You can still make a profit with a $400 win, chances are 8th will be about $240 or so which will still put you ahead in the long run.

I don't think $100 is too much, I know it's only about $50 cheaper than it is now but if we cut first and pay down a little more, the lower cashers would be more enticed to come back and bowl some more.

As for the National events, thats a different story, make the entries $300 and make 16th $1000. We have to have a clear cut difference when the big boys play. Also hence why there should be only 6 events. States should be also making an effort to offer free spots in these events to get locals bowling in them, be it a sweeper or mini roll off, who cares, let's get the numbers up.

G

PS My shout next Dwambo next time I see you

 

[Tamerett]

George,
Being reasonably new to bowling, although my family adore it, I applaud your efforts to get the "fringe" bowlers into the tournaments, both my son and daughters are above average bowlers, one being second qualifier in Rachuig Qld and the other two trying their luck in their first masters - one came fourth and my son came seventh. Do you "Biggies" know just how daunting it is for a new face to come up against you? I think not!!! They are freaked out bowling against internationals like you guys, BUT, I must comment on the friendliness and sportsmanship - Keep it up - this is how to continue to get new tournament bowlers.

 

[Graham]

i don't think anyone really realises how daunting it is .. I mean sure - everyone bowling in these tournaments has been there and done that but once they are over the "baptism of fire" they forget about it and move on leaving the newcomers to earn their baptism and find their way on their own ...

Maybe a move which is often talked about but never acted upon is the creation of the "night before the major" Pro AM .. do we need to start pushing harder for this sort of pretournament event to happen ?

 

[GeorgeF]

Well I'm not sure if I am classified as a biggie but I am all for Pro-Ams. Words can't describe how popular they are in the states. When the Australia's best walk through your door only once a year, you should have every league bowler at the centre in there talking, mingling and bowling all together. I enjoy meeting new bowlers and doing what I can to help them out as best I can.

Like in the states, bowl 3 games on the Friday night before, the " PRO's " remain on the same lane, all other bowlers move, you don't need big prizes up for grabs either. Some of these formats are no-tap events, some are 3 games with handicap, it doesn't really matter. It's all about socializing and promoting the sport, it doesn't get much better than this. It's the little things that make the diffence, I'm sure everyone of Nation's Top 20 or so would be happy to do this.

As for daunting, I can imagine it would be. It's exactley how I felt when I bowled overseas for the first couple of times. I spent a lot of money with a sports psychologist only to find that it doesn't matter if your bowling an International event, a AMF regional or a social game at home. It's about making the best shot you can every time. QUALITY and REPETITION. All you need to do is throw one good shot, if you can do this you have succeeded, the only catch is you have to repeat it 12-15 times a game. Don't worry about scores, they will come by themselves.

G

 

[AdrianS]

Down South isn't the best either. In the last 3-4 years we have lost dozens of bowlers in SA and VIC. As far as i know a lot of them still bowl leauge but not much else. To Give an example here are some events from 1997 with the number of entries(off the top of my head so they might be a couple out)and what they got this time around

1997
Keon Park ATBA 60 entries( no longer held)

Knox ATBA 72 entries(no longer held)

C.T.B.A.M Masters 63 entries(no longer held by ATBA if at all)

Victorian Open 55 entries(don't know if being held this year, 52 last year)

Venuto's Cup 59 entries(last time it was held in '99, 30 entries)

Warnambool Cup 78 entries(47 in 2000)


In SA

Barossa Cup 63 bowlers(this year about 40)

Elizibeth Open 57 bowlers(no longer held)

Village open 83 Bowlers(last held in '99 with 77 bowlers then cancelled! Bad Move!)

this is only 4 years ago! These guys(and gals) have got to be out there somewhere, even if they bowl 3 or 4 tournaments it would make some sort of positive difference. I might not have the answers but i'd like to think i'm helping by asking some of the questions.

 

[trev]

a lot of ideas have been thrown around here........some good and some have hit the nail right on the head......
carl's thoughts of that bowling comes in cycles is dead right.....
it maybe a couple of years before all our regular bowlers of the last few years can get the cash together and fill those tourneys again, if of course they're still bowling, also some bowlers just get burnt out for the amount of bowling that they do.....
we are kidding ourselves if we think we can beat the financial economy of this country......in other words people have priorities other than bowling ( as jase has pointed out ) and spend their valuable cash elsewhere........
so what to do in the meantime, until our money becomes avaliable???

no disrespect to the finalists of the brisbane cup, but that tournament should have been cancelled or deferred to another date, a "once was a major" tourney like that, or any tourny for that matter, should not go ahead with only 26 entries.
kedron did the right thing when they realised they where not going to get anywhere near 90 bowlers, it was a farce anyway to suggest that they would get 90 entries.
so we get back to the administrators, maybe they have a bit to answer for on scheduling and advertising of tourneys.
lets look at some of the failed tourneys this year in brissy......

brissy cup......only 26 entries and no local house bowlers and only one interstater.
kedron.....cancelled , clashed with another tourney that was advertised to be on at the start of the year.
richlands......only 20 something bowlers there?????
i know that these are only amf centres that i have mentioned, for a very good reason too......if amf and the powers to be of this circuit are fairdinkum, they would advertise???
can anyone tell me , if there centre manager has advertised another amf tourny in another centre.......i,ll bet the answer is a big fat zero.
there is another topic in this forum "the best tournament directors".....
it takes dedication and a lot of hard work to get and encourage bowlers to bowl.
some people have that gift......while others dont care......the "Confirm a date...and they will come" attitude of most t/d's is a wish and hope mentallity.

attention tournament directors...
come up with ideas, talk to the bowlers , have referendums, do what ever it will take....remember we are the ones that have supported you in tourneys , league and practice.
"manage and then we will come".