Queensland Rachuig 2010 – State Team Trials Venue and Dates.

[Cam S]

No probs Jase.
The insurance thing was a joke/jibe at the situation and comments. It was not a serious request mate!

Just to clarify, I was never complaining about the change to roll-offs, as I was not involved with the thought/decision processes. I just added my opinion on how difficult the process could be for some, who would have thought of having a go at it, if it was a similar process to this year.

For the fringe bowlers, like myself, who would have liked to have had a go this year, I thought it came as a bit of a shock that it went back to single roll-off. Honestly, I thought it went well this year - until the selection phase anyways (and as there are still twenty through the roll-off and fourteen selected, I don't see the selection phase going any smoother ). Changing the part that went well and keeping the parts that had problems is a little counter-intuitive to me.

If you look at the intersect diagram and place it over the state of Queensland. The scenario I painted in my first post is quite close to the truth. Having a strong base in the South and an equally strong base in the North, a roll off in both area's allows people with two kids (amongst other pressures) to have a go at a smaller expense. Having the South travel north and the North travel south you lose bowlers from the potential roll-off base from BOTH areas, due to the higher costs.

I cannot afford to bet on the chance of getting into the top 20 and then being lucky enough for a selector or two giving me 'the chance' one needs to make the team.
I would love too, but with a family with two kids on a single, average wage, adding to the fact that I have only bowled for 4 years, I couldn't afford the gamble.
No matter how "lucky" I have been this year!

The jibe about waiting for the information to come out before "shooting our mouths off" was the thing that set me off! Quite frankly it was out of order and the first real 'negative' in this thread. In reality, the information coming does not really change the decision process, in terms of whether to attend the roll-off, but my subsequent posts were ‘subtly’p) designed to covey that fact.

My $0.05. <- Hey Cam, I deal in Dollars! ... Fractions of Dollars ... maybe so ... but Dollars none the less! I WIN!

hahah no no no no no mr 5c

btw if i ever win lotto I'll personally pay Mr Bottomley to bowl for QLD
but that would only be if there was enough money left after I buy out both equity share holders of the Sea Eagles

 

[blocka]

When are the nomination forms going to be available, please

Leanne

 

[Andrew S.]

Sorry we are waiting for the official accreditation. In the meantime here is a draft nomination form. I dont think the eventual official form will vary too much. (I hope)

This draft is acceptable if you want to send it in. If anything has to be drastically changed to fall into line with official requirements we will inform you immediately.
Our apologies for the delay we should have had these forms out sooner.

 

[Morty]

Just a Quick Update. The Rachuig Teams Have been Adjusted to only 6 Players instead of the original 7. We will be adjusted the Nomination forms and Sending out.

Morty

 

[Den]

Andrew
I assume the reference to Kirwan in the nomination form is a typo..
"• All bowlers MUST bowl All Events in the 2010 Qld State Championships at Caboolture in May OR the 2010 North Queensland Zone Championships at Kirwan in June.
Den

 

[bm2]

Den,

at the time of doing the document we were unaware that the Northern Zone champs were going to be held in Cairns this year. It has since been bought to our attention, and the nomination form PROPER will have the correct information on it!

 

[das1604]

I just spent a couple of hours going through some different scenario's in an attempt to make it to Mackay for the roll-off. Including airfares (or petrol, or bus ticket), accommodation, nomination and roll off fees, and a minimum cost of living for the weekend.

I was looking at maybe $750 to $1000 for the weekend. And then if selected (not a certainty for me at the moment) I could expect a similar outlay to last year of ~$1200 to compete. I'm still a young man, I simply can't afford that.

When we had two roll off locations last year I was surprised at the lack of turnout for such a prestigious event for bowlers. That was when I and many others only had to go across town for 30 minutes, and only pay for nomination and roll off fee's ($175 if I remember correctly). There were twice the number of people rolling off for Brisbane Area Association last year compared to QLD Rachuig.

I would really like to roll off for Rachuig. I would probably not make a team, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to try. Mackay may be a central location, but I would hazard a guess at it being simply too far away from too many people to make it a viable decision to go. Queensland won Rachuig last year, what was wrong with the formula that people decided to change it? If it ain't broke don't fix it?

People on these forums talk about bringing Rachuig back to the prestigious event it once was. Rising costs = less people rolling off. Less people rolling off = lack of competition. Lack of competition = poor event.

 

[Johnny G]

North Queenslanders have had to deal with the same costs for years when roll-offs were always held in the south. Now it's our turn and you don't like it? I say deal with it, like we had to.

 

[Fitzy]

North Queenslanders have had to deal with the same costs for years when roll-offs were always held in the south. Now it's our turn and you don't like it? I say deal with it, like we had to.

Could be wrong, as I may not be as learned as most of you out there, but, as far as I saw it, it was on a rotational basis prior to last year.

 

[Fitzy]

btw if i ever win lotto I'll personally pay Mr Bottomley to bowl for QLD
but that would only be if there was enough money left after I buy out both equity share holders of the Sea Eagles

Hey Cam there's a $10 Million powerball on Thursday!

After paying out the the equity share holders, you can give the rest too Carl.
I'm sure he won't knock back $9.95 Million!

St.George on the other hand, you'd have to win the powerball 10-20 times before you'd have enough for them to seriously think about selling.

Go the Dragons!

Dragons '010!

 

[Jase]

I just spent a couple of hours going through some different scenario's in an attempt to make it to Mackay for the roll-off. Including airfares (or petrol, or bus ticket), accommodation, nomination and roll off fees, and a minimum cost of living for the weekend.

I was looking at maybe $750 to $1000 for the weekend. And then if selected (not a certainty for me at the moment) I could expect a similar outlay to last year of ~$1200 to compete. I'm still a young man, I simply can't afford that.

When we had two roll off locations last year I was surprised at the lack of turnout for such a prestigious event for bowlers. That was when I and many others only had to go across town for 30 minutes, and only pay for nomination and roll off fee's ($175 if I remember correctly). There were twice the number of people rolling off for Brisbane Area Association last year compared to QLD Rachuig.

I would really like to roll off for Rachuig. I would probably not make a team, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to try. Mackay may be a central location, but I would hazard a guess at it being simply too far away from too many people to make it a viable decision to go. Queensland won Rachuig last year, what was wrong with the formula that people decided to change it? If it ain't broke don't fix it?

People on these forums talk about bringing Rachuig back to the prestigious event it once was. Rising costs = less people rolling off. Less people rolling off = lack of competition. Lack of competition = poor event.

• Nomination Fee: $100.00
• Roll Off fees:$100.00
• Flight there $89.00
• Flight home $59.00
• Accomodation and food $200.00

Total $548.00 and i only spent 10 minutes on it including typing the post...So a couple of hours seems extreme...

Everyone looks for a reason to NOT bowl...Why don't people look for a reason to bowl it...Is it easier to blame costs as and excuse to fail perhaps?

I bowled this event twice and wouldn't change that for the world...Rachuig may not have the Best of the Best bowling in it, but speaking first hand if you make a team and people like George, Pilko Morty or the Nth Qld boys are in it, i can assure you are in for one hell of a time...No money you spend on making this event will ever out weight the fun and experience you will gain from bowling in a teams event with people like that...

I say if you looking for a reason to fail or to not make the team then you have one...COSTS...If you really want to have a crack and make it then take my advice DO IT...

p.s i also believe there is some prize money on offer to off-set some of the costs...I could be wrong i just didn't want to spend two hours researching...

 

[Fitzy]

I have only been around the scene since 2004.

I have been informed that prior to 2004, Johnny G's post is quite accurate. It is a shame our state is so big and greatly geographically populated.
I am starting to understand how difficult it must be for the powers that be, to find a 'one size fits all' solution to this (what seems to be) long-time problem.

Here's hoping there is one out there somewhere! (A solution that is)
:surrender:

Cheers,

P.S.
As I said, I could be wrong and am happy to be corrected if I am!
Information is power.

 

[Morty]

I am not even really sure what I want to say to the last couple of post and normally I Review and edit everything several times Prior to posting, But this time I thought I would just put it up and see if we can not muster up some ideas and interest and Feed Back All of which is listened to.

One of the heaviest criticism that we received last year about the Roll off was the use of Selection Criteria across TWO SEPARATE CENTERS. Most of the Comments and Feedback Around selection came back to this issue, Regardless of EVERY EFFORT at both centers and By the Rachuig committee. The Decisions that have been made over the last two years have been in consultation with Past and Present Players. The Roll off Format last year was a Combined effort between players from Northern Zone and Southern Zone. This years format was the same with several ideas thrown around in an attempt to resolve the issues that had come up from the 2009 Selection Process.

Each year we have an AGM at the STATE Level where additional Ideas and be put forward not just for our representative bowling events but for all Bowling Endeavors.. For heavens Sake don't be the Loudest voice on total bowling but unheard where to some extent it really counts.

PLEASE NOTE.... This is not a Criticism of any one this is just saying if you have an idea for improving bowling in our state at any level Stand up Speak up and if it is not in your nature to be that outspoken forward it to me or Andrew or someone to speak up or present it at the AGM. I will not speak on behalf of the board but would say every idea that is presented is given time and discussed. The people that sit on the state board do so out of a passion for a sport and ideas to make it better are what they are doing.

Our State Is Big and Representative Bowling is Expensive there is not disputing that, However I would point out that back through many years several different ideas were tried.

Having an Alternative roll off event has been tried and when selection for Queensland was in Mackay in 2008 there was a single southern attend. Earlier when the state selection was held at Canon hill in I think 97 only one Northern Zone Player Attended.
Prior to this was I think the 94 selection camp when a large amount on NQ bowlers traveled south.

Travel is a part of our sport which is unavoidable. I think it is also worth pointing out that in the 2009 roll offs all though most of the players in the Souther Zone Roll off had " Only 30 Minutes travel to the Roll off" This was not the case for the Northern Zone Players and To be honest Most will have similar expenses this year in Travelling to Mackay as they did Travelling to Innisvale Last Year. " North QLD is BLOODY BIG...

I think also what is extremely important and what was rightly pointed out earlier. QLD did well last year. And the CORE OBJECTIVE of the roll off was to get the 7 Best Players THAT ROLLED OFF in the one team regardless of which Zone they came from and that that would give use teams that would medal. This concept worked last year. We have not moved away from that but tried to, Based on Feed Back from players that were will to attend a meeting OR write in their ideas, Improve on that concept.

So there it is on those couple of items. Fund raising has been tried with raffle tickets to assist to off set the cost of bowling. Players that made the team in general did not want to sell raffle tickets so this was stopped. When if was mentioned this year it was not popular. So has not been brought on board this year.


As to Rachuig being a Poor Event with Poor Competition I would have to say that regardless of the teams that attend the competition is always high. Rachuig seams to be a focal point to much criticism that is equally appropriate to bowling in general however this event for what ever reason seams to be a magnet for it's unfair share. If you attended the Events dinner last year you would know that there is a lot of support from the players that attend this event. Perhaps the the Last 2 minutes of Ashley Reily's winnings Captains speech should be played in every bowling center in Australia.

Now for a Personal Perspective. I love Team Bowling. If you have not taken part in a 5 person teams event like Rachuig, Association Challenge or even the QLD Easter Challenge do yourself a favor save the dollars and attend or roll off for one of these events. I have been fortunate to bowl in a lot of events through my time in this sport and Many of my Best Bowling experiences and Memories have been from 5 Person competitions Country Cup when it was running Rachuig and Association Challenge. Make the decision yourself do not listen just to the people WHO don't participate in these events but talk to the players who do.

There it is Hopes this gives some history and a perspective that is not always put forward about representative bowling. I am not saying that the path to Any Representative team is easy and some would say that it should be challenging BUT what i am saying that I and Many others have found it Extremely Worthwhile and for filling.

 

[blocka]

Well said Morty!!!!!

 

[Mark L]

I have to ask, was it not decided to put a 2nd QLD team in Rachuig so there was less travel to both sides?

 

[Morty]

Hi Mark,

No The Driving Force for the Second Team was not Travel. I believe that when the Rachuig Competition was changed and Extended to include two additional teams one being NZ and the other being an invitational team. National Office Extends an invitation to the TBAQ Board to submit a Second Team or Invitational Team. This is not a right we have as a state but more something that is given to Queensland because of I guess its geographic size and also Recognition of the bowler numbers in the Northern Zone.

I would also point out that last year we almost lost the second team invitation and it was continued only after much lobbing with the TBAQ Board from Several Key Bowlers in both the Northern Zone and Southern Zones.

There are also funding issue to consider on a larger scale. Australian Institute Of Sport dose not see that in our Open Interstate competition that a state should be able to submit two teams. Hence Really I guess from a National Office perspective Last year is the First year we really have got it Right in terms of there Being a "Queensland Team" and a clearly separate "A Team" But where all players from the Sate have the Opportunity to Roll Off.

So I guess in short while the ability to field a second team may have initially seamed like it was designed for that reason I do not believe that it was the Driving Force. so I guess the Answer would be No.

Sorry about the additional information just through it was needed.

 

[das1604]

I understand the issues surrounding the problem of having such a large state and travel costs etc. I also realise it is very difficult, neigh impossible, to make everyone happy when it comes to this topic.

I guess my problem is that I am still a Uni student with a fixed income. I would dearly love to bowl Rachuig, but I guess it will have to come in a later time of my life when I have the funds to be able to afford it. Bowling is an expensive sport, everyone knows this.

I apologise if I offended anyone with my post, I was just frustrated at the time.

 

[Fitzy]

Hey Morty,

Can I ask a few questions?

What were the actual criticism's of having the selection based on roll off between the two different centre's?
The only thing I can think of is if there were different lane conditions laid for the two centre's. This can be resolved by coordinated lane conditioning.

What distances are we talking about, between center's up there in the North?

Where is the actual boundary between North and South?

More questions to come ...

Disclaimer:
As I said in previous post, I am still trying to understand the problems of the past and I am slowly understanding the issues facing the decision makers. It seem they're damned whichever direction they decide.

My previous post was not a criticism, but a realisation on my part, of the difficulties of the predicament.

 

[Morty]

Hi Das1604,

Mate no offence taken at all. I was just trying to give some really open feedback on how and why the roll offs are like they are and to give players out there some reasons to bowl as opposed to always being given reason not to bowl. So it is all cool.

hope to see you down the track when you are out of Uni Making the Big Dollars.


Morty

 

[Morty]

Hi Fitzy,

Thanks for the Questions first of all there was a lot of feedback regarding the lane conditions and while it is easy to say and to type the fact of the matter is the SAME LANE CONDITION was laid at both centers and the Scoring was noticeable different. I attend both Roll Offs. So As good as "Co Ordinated Lane Conditioning" may sound in reality it did not work in with regards to Scoring. and to be honest the area that played high on the lanes was different at both centers.

Personal I don't see a Boundary Between the Zones However I think for President Shield
that Rocky might be the southern Zone Boundary.

As for Distance, Hop on google Maps. I think that pretty much between each of the major centers that being Cairns Townsville and Mackay there is about 3 to 4 hours driving. Meaning that the Bowlers from Cairns are looking at about 8 hours. I am not 100% Sure on that but I am Sure that one of the Northern Zone Guys will let us know if I have it Wrong.

Mate once again I did not take your post as criticism I was just being open and Honest on the Process and on how the decisions of the last couple of years have been Made

And to Promote the fact that if you have not tried out for a Teams Event do yourself a Favor and have a go.