NOW THERES A SHOCK

[Brenton_Davy]

Part of the reason the lower grades are not turning up to the nationals is the tougher lane conditions of the last few years. Lower grade bowlers have told me they don't want to spend heaps of money to go to Sydney and shoot 30 pins per game below average. This has been even more evident at the Junior Nationals.

We have to remember that the Nationals are a GRADED event! I have no problem with putting down tougher patterns for the Adult Masters, but the graded bowlers, both adult and (especially) juniors do not have the physical tools or the knowledge to handle these types of patterns. The Nationals used to have a core of graded bowlers that travelled every year, in addition to the local graded players. They have been lost to the Nationals because they do not enjoy their bowling on these patterns

 

[amagill]

Were the national championships this year, not on an "easier" non-sport pattern, then they laid down a sport pattern for the masters? I remember this fact was advertised a lot, so that means that a lot of graded bowlers still didn't show up this year, even though the championships were on an easier pattern.

 

[Mistagear]

Sorry Brenton, There are thousands of bowlers that dont have to travel. Are you seriously telling me that B, C and D grade bowlers are not bowling in their Nationals because of lane conditions ? Do they even know the difference between one lane condition and another ?
Mate , this is a total lack of connection between members and their Sporting Body.
The TBA have done a piss poor job.. simple

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Sorry Brenton, There are thousands of bowlers that dont have to travel. Are you seriously telling me that B, C and D grade bowlers are not bowling in their Nationals because of lane conditions ? Do they even know the difference between one lane condition and another ?
Mate , this is a total lack of connection between members and their Sporting Body.
The TBA have done a piss poor job.. simple

Yes peter, I am! And yes Peter they do. At least to the extent that they know what they can score on and what they can't. Especially when bowling on 24+ ml of oil compered to the 16 they normally bowl on

Part of the reason the lower grades are not turning up to the nationals is the tougher lane conditions of the last few years. Lower grade bowlers have told me they don't want to spend heaps of money to go to Sydney and shoot 30 pins per game below average. This has been even more evident at the Junior Nationals.

The only place it was "advertised" was on the TBA website, and only then if you went specifically looking for the oiling pattern. The only other "advertising" I was aware of was word of mouth.

Were the national championships this year, not on an "easier" non-sport pattern, then they laid down a sport pattern for the masters? I remember this fact was advertised a lot, so that means that a lot of graded bowlers still didn't show up this year, even though the championships were on an easier pattern.

The only place it was "advertised" was on the TBA website, and only then if you went specifically looking for the oiling pattern. The only other "advertising" I was aware of was word of mouth.

 

[amagill]

Yes peter, I am! And yes Peter they do. At least to the extent that they know what they can score on and what they can't. Especially when bowling on 24+ ml of oil compered to the 16 they normally bowl on




The only place it was "advertised" was on the TBA website, and only then if you went specifically looking for the oiling pattern. The only other "advertising" I was aware of was word of mouth.



The only place it was "advertised" was on the TBA website, and only then if you went specifically looking for the oiling pattern. The only other "advertising" I was aware of was word of mouth.

Word of mouth was how I heard about the oil pattern change. It seems the TBA has trouble advertising to the masses. I've had personal experiences of not knowing about certain things, only to be told later that it was on the TBA web site, or my state's TBA web site. When I first started bowling some 20 years ago, before the internet, I distinctly remember being able to walk into Astro Lanes at Campbelltown & finding out about a plethora of tournaments, travel leagues & other TBA accredited events, via a notice board filled with entry forms in the bowl, regardless of where these events were being held, people knew about them. These days, in this so called, "information age", there seems to be a problem with people finding out about events, as everything seems to go on the TBA web site, but then they don't tell people it's there & no one goes looking to the TBA web site for it. Definitely something they could work on I reckon.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Word of mouth was how I heard about the oil pattern change. It seems the TBA has trouble advertising to the masses. I've had personal experiences of not knowing about certain things, only to be told later that it was on the TBA web site, or my state's TBA web site. When I first started bowling some 20 years ago, before the internet, I distinctly remember being able to walk into Astro Lanes at Campbelltown & finding out about a plethora of tournaments, travel leagues & other TBA accredited events, via a notice board filled with entry forms in the bowl, regardless of where these events were being held, people knew about them. These days, in this so called, "information age", there seems to be a problem with people finding out about events, as everything seems to go on the TBA web site, but then they don't tell people it's there & no one goes looking to the TBA web site for it. Definitely something they could work on I reckon.

I remember further back than that, when tournament promoters (yes even the ATBC) would mail out entry forms for every tournament that was upcoming, often 6 months in advance. It seems that most now have taken the cheap way out and just posted them on the net, be it here, the TBA site or on Facebook. THe old days at Rockdale, there were always entry forms displayed at the desk and in the Pro Shop advertising upcoming events.

The reality is that many people (especially seniors) don't bother to look for entry forms any more, whereas "back in the day" we were bombarded with hard copy entry forms. With shortening attention spans these days, maybe a "Back To The Future" mindset would help to increase entries.

 

[Mistagear]

Brenton, I am sure you could find a few who would say it was lane conditions that kept them from entering but in my opinion it's rediculous to suggest that is a major or significant factor
I'm sure there were thousands of bowlers who did not know the Nationals were on, let alone know what oil was going to be put on the lanes.
I say again... TBA are doing a piss poor job of reaching their members ! They can not do the basic things yet keep putting their hand out every year. Not nearly good enough

 

[Loose Cannon]

Don't we all read our TBA newsletters that are emailed to us? I'm positive upcoming calender events & tournaments are mentioned plus links to relative information.

 

[RobbieB]

After wading through the miracle of misdirection and confusion that passes as the TBA website, there were 18 combined male and female C & D grade entries in 2012 and 20 total in 2011. Can't find the 2013 all events scores or any prior to 2011.

There is absolutely nothing to attract lower grade bowlers to the Nationals.

 

[RobbieB]

Yes peter, I am! And yes Peter they do. At least to the extent that they know what they can score on and what they can't. Especially when bowling on 24+ ml of oil compered to the 16 they normally bowl on

C and D grade bowlers can't score on anything. That's why they are in C grade. To suggest that oil patterns are going to affect the scores of <140 average bowlers is optimistic at best. However, that doesn't mean they know or believe that.
We have the best bowlers and coaches in Australia there and yet not a clinic, fitting session or equipment tent in sight. Wasted opportunity.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

C and D grade bowlers can't score on anything. That's why they are in C grade. To suggest that oil patterns are going to affect the scores of <140 average bowlers is optimistic at best. However, that doesn't mean they know or believe that.
We have the best bowlers and coaches in Australia there and yet not a clinic, fitting session or equipment tent in sight. Wasted opportunity.

Look at the averages thrown by C, D and E grade juniors at the Junior nationals the last 3 years. Nearly all of them are 25 to 40 pins below their entering averages. Now surely its not all nerves. The only variable is the lane conditions. Look too at the numbers shot by Classic, A and B grade. A similar trend appears.

Again, I say that the Nationals is a GRADED event. As a result All Grades need to be catered for. I am not, in any way, suggesting this is the only reason. The reasons are many and varied. I am just passing on the message that I am getting from the graded bowlers who no longer go to the nationals.

 

[Mistagear]

Look at the averages thrown by C, D and E grade juniors at the Junior nationals the last 3 years. Nearly all of them are 25 to 40 pins below their entering averages. Now surely its not all nerves. The only variable is the lane conditions. Look too at the numbers shot by Classic, A and B grade. A similar trend appears.

Again, I say that the Nationals is a GRADED event. As a result All Grades need to be catered for. I am not, in any way, suggesting this is the only reason. The reasons are many and varied. I am just passing on the message that I am getting from the graded bowlers who no longer go to the nationals.

Are bowlers in our sport so weak and so dumb they cant figure out they only have to beat others on the day, not bowl an "average" ?

 

[strop]

Bowlers so weak and dumb......wow.....nice comments..........impressive!

Wasting you breathe Brenton....

If TBA don't survive...we won't have to worry about where the nationals are.....they obviously aren't managing there debt levels otherwise they wouldn't be chasing big money for sanctioning..

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Are bowlers in our sport so weak and so dumb they cant figure out they only have to beat others on the day, not bowl an "average" ?

You are asking a question you really don't want the answer to...

 

[Roysa]

Needs to be a "dislike" button on this forum.

 

[Mistagear]

Bowlers so weak and dumb......wow.....nice comments..........impressive!

Wasting you breathe Brenton....

If TBA don't survive...we won't have to worry about where the nationals are.....they obviously aren't managing there debt levels otherwise they wouldn't be chasing big money for sanctioning..

If you followed my comments, I disagreed that oil patterns would stop people, so in effect, I'm saying I dont think people are so weak and dumb. I'm saying its for different reasons.
If you do agree that lane conditioning is the reason, how would you put it ?

 

[RobbieB]

Look at the averages thrown by C, D and E grade juniors at the Junior nationals the last 3 years. Nearly all of them are 25 to 40 pins below their entering averages.

OK, I looked at 2013 (link to 2014 is broken). Obviously you didn't actually look at the scores.
C grade cutoff 110-129 boys 100-119 girls. All Events Boys 10th/18 is 1167, first place 250 over cutoff average. Last averaged over 110, which is the bottom of the average cut. Girls last place shot 1037.
D grade, 90-109 boys 80-99 girls, 8 boys 1363 1st 1020 last. 6 girls, 1020 1st 773 last.
E grade, <90 boys <79 girls. last of the 3 boys shot 776, only 1 girl shot 753.
I'd check 2012 but I'm not sure my bullshit meter would survive.

 

[RobbieB]

I couldn't resist looking at 2012.
Of the total 53 entries in C & D grade, exactly 3 (THREE) juniors averaged below the bottom of the grade cut off across all games bowled. More than half averaged BETTER than the ceiling average for their grade.
I know left handers can't count past ten, but really?

 

[RobbieB]

If TBA don't survive...we won't have to worry about where the nationals are.....they obviously aren't managing there debt levels otherwise they wouldn't be chasing big money for sanctioning..

Financials are all online. TBA have no immediate financial issues and plenty in the bank. They have accomplished this by not spending money on promoting and developing the sport. This is what they need money for.
Does trying to get all league bowlers in the country really equate to chasing big money? Fees (for those that actually pay them) have gone down for adults, not up.
FWIW, the next Nationals I attend will be the next one not in Sydney. Hopefully it will be SA or Perth, haven't been to either. Only protest I can make.

 

[amagill]

Don't we all read our TBA newsletters that are emailed to us? I'm positive upcoming calender events & tournaments are mentioned plus links to relative information.

I do read those usually, when I do find a link to something of interest to me, in said e-newsletter, it takes me to the TBA web site, or the state based TBA web site, which leads to this:

After wading through the miracle of misdirection and confusion that passes as the TBA website...

The TBA web site is very difficult to navigate.