Low scoring for Seniors Nationals at Rooty Hill

I cannot sit and read this without commenting.
I was there for all events and attempted to qualify for the Seniors Cup.
I really can`t understand what all the fuss is about.
My game at the moment is not ****, it is absolute ****, and although I came away with
bad scores, my game is a work in progress, and when I ( on the odd occasion ) threw a good shot-
I got a good result. The pattern used is a good scoring pattern, but IN MY OPINION )
THE WRONG OIL WAS USED. tHE KEGEL patterns are not designed to be used with low viscosity oil,
and i Think that was the problem.
 I would like to try that again when I`m bowling a bit better than I am at the moment.
This post is MY OPINION only.
Animal
 
dockers said:
Geoff, sorry to hear you address restricted bowlers as STUFF they are the bread and butter of this industry. If they dont bowl leagues in centres they would all close. Too much given to elite, a little to Seniors and NOTHING to the restricted which I think is a terrible name to describe bowlers. Dockers
Click to expand...

I think you are miss quoting my context

I was saying the restricted stuff is on now
Funnily enough I just drove back to Rooty Hill today
with my wife so she could bowl in the restricted cup

I do my best to support events across the board
 
Animal said:
I cannot sit and read this without commenting.
I was there for all events and attempted to qualify for the Seniors Cup.
I really can`t understand what all the fuss is about.
My game at the moment is not ****, it is absolute ****, and although I came away with
bad scores, my game is a work in progress, and when I ( on the odd occasion ) threw a good shot-
I got a good result. The pattern used is a good scoring pattern, but IN MY OPINION )
THE WRONG OIL WAS USED. tHE KEGEL patterns are not designed to be used with low viscosity oil,
and i Think that was the problem.
 I would like to try that again when I`m bowling a bit better than I am at the moment.
This post is MY OPINION only.
Animal
Click to expand...
At last - At last. Thanks Lawrie. You have it, that gives me faith back in my 'little birds who told me'. I hinted at it an early post on the thread " Nationals Pattern Not as Advertised ? ", when I said - "Oils Aint Oils."
Jim.
 
Animal said:
I cannot sit and read this without commenting.
THE WRONG OIL WAS USED. tHE KEGEL patterns are not designed to be used with low viscosity oil,

Animal
Click to expand...

Considering Kegel sell conditioners with viscocity as low as 14, I find that unlikely.

Why do you say the wrong oil was used?
Most common conditioners fall in a range of 8cps which when running through a sanction machine is less of an issue than the lubricity or surface tension of the conditioner.
 
I feel for the Seniors on this one.

Seniors bowl all year on ditched up house shots and have a great time living the dream. The trouble with living the dream is that you must remain asleep. When you play all year on patterns that place little to no premium on accuracy, prediction/adjustment, power or repetition, it must come as a very rude shock when you hit something as demanding as this year's nationals pattern, which required all these elements. So it's no surprise that some folks had a hard time. And I feel for them. They've been deceived by easy shots all year and now they face the music in a public and pretty painful way. The organisers that set up events on 10:1 house shots are the ones who should be ashamed. Because you can't have your national championship on a house shot. It's about real bowling to challenge all grades of player. Start running Senior events on 8:1, then 6:1, 5:1 etc. patterns and pretty soon, people will get better. Scores will be lower at first. So what? Scores are relative to conditions. Players will improve.

While we're all asleep playing tournaments on our comfortable house shots, the rest of the world isn't looking at their watches waiting around for us. They're getting better. Meanwhile, we are stagnating in our little pond.

They get harder. We get softer. And the gap widens with time.

I'm with Lawrie. I too failed on this pattern. While I dislike medium length (37-40 foot) patterns, I failed because I threw it pretty poorly. I look to the tired looking guy I see each morning when I brush my teeth for answers, not the lane man. I'm going to have a short rest and get back on the practice lanes with a good coach. I respectfully suggest anyone who bowled below expectations at the Nationals do the same.

And by all reports, a lot of people just didn't move their feet and target. Then it really is hard. I tried every conceivable part of the lane. Some things worked. Others didn't. What didn't work for me, worked fine for the straighter guys and vise versa. It wasn't that hard. It just wasn't dead easy. If we had laid down something easy, we'd have seen a carry contest, with some folks averaging 260+ on it. Michael Mak did just that recently. Purvis' lads from Hong Kong would have murdered such a pattern.

The international players were, by and large, better than us. That's why they did so well. But we had some admirable local performances. I see our guys giving it a better shake next year. There's a lot of encouragement to be taken from this year's event.

Try. Fail. Try. Fail Better. Try. Succeed. Try. Triumph.

Cheers,
Jason

p.s. If the oil had been higher viscosity, I suspect (and I'm guessing) that the middle would have hooked even more downlane, making it nastier. This would be a good thread for tech talk! Phluff, it was really hot in there by all reports during seniors week.
 
Well said Jason.

There was a shot there. If you were accurate and kept your speed consistent, it was playable. I bowl down 5 board and found a higher pocket shot got me more strikes than a shot evenly in the pocket. But there wasn't much margin for error going for a high pocket shot - miss by a board the wrong way and you'll get a split.

I was paired with Jason during one of the singles squads on the Monday and he just couldn't get it right. Some unluckly back pins didn't help either :)
 
jimcross said:
At last - At last. Thanks Lawrie. You have it, that gives me faith back in my 'little birds who told me'. I hinted at it an early post on the thread " Nationals Pattern Not as Advertised ? ", when I said - "Oils Aint Oils."
Jim.
Click to expand...

Hi Jim

AMF use Brunswick Oil in the Kegel Sanction machines, I think most people
are aware of that

The oil Pattern for the Nationals was determined by a committee
put together which included senior lane maintenance staff and several
other people. Naming names is not necessary

The committee involved were privy to all the information they required
to make an educated decision on the pattern considering the Oil used, Machine
type, Lane surface and the experience of last year.

The pattern was most certainly as advetised

Last year they did use Kegel oil for the Nationals

I hope that helps clear things up for you

Cheers
Geoff
 
Geoff300 said:
Hi Jim

AMF use Brunswick Oil in the Kegel Sanction machines, I think most people are aware of that.

The pattern was most certainly as advetised

Last year they did use Kegel oil for the Nationals

I hope that helps clear things up for you

Cheers
Geoff
Click to expand...
(Part Quote only)

Thanks, Geoff,
I think that the things I was originally told can certainly be explained by what you have said. As I understand it, the same pattern, with different oil, would change the playing characterists, better or worse in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

If any critisism had any merit at all, I suppose it could only be, that without prior advice of the oil difference from last year, people would be entitled to be surprised that it played so differently.
Anyhow, thanks for clearing it up.

Jim
 
Surely people have to realise that when a pattern is posted it is to be used as "GUIDE"

How anybody determines how the lane should play EXACTLY just from looking at a piece of paper is beyond me.

There are endless contributing factors in how a lane plays that you just cant say "this ball should have worked because the piece of paper said this, the pattern MUST be different!!"

When a pattern is advertised there are a few key factors people should look at to get an idea of where to start in their arsenal of equipment.

I am fortunate enough to have a largish arsenal, and believe i picked the correct gear for rachuig and the masters to suit the lane condition as advertised and luckily as it played. This however was still no match for me bowling ****.

Use the advertised pattern as a guide to make educated equipment choices, if you need help, ASK!!!

Once you get there, use your knowledge to make educated adjustments based on how the lane is actually playing, if you need help, ASK!! There are people out there that will help!!

In the end though, no matter what pattern is out there, throwing good shots is what counts most. Someone who bowls it more consistent than you is going to beat you more often than not, work on it people.

I AM!!
 
jason_doust said:
I too failed on this pattern.
And by all reports, a lot of people just didn't move their feet and target. Then it really is hard.
The international players were, by and large, better than us. That's why they did so well. But we had some admirable local performances. I see our guys giving it a better shake next year. There's a lot of encouragement to be taken from this year's event.

Try. Fail. Try. Fail Better. Try. Succeed. Try. Triumph.

Cheers,
Jason

p.s. If the oil had been higher viscosity, I suspect (and I'm guessing) that the middle would have hooked even more downlane, making it nastier. This would be a good thread for tech talk! Phluff, it was really hot in there by all reports during seniors week.
Click to expand...

I'll be one to admit I struggled as well... When I thought I had a good look on the outside, I would change pairs and then the shot I thought I had wasn't there so then I'd find another one... 10 right with my feet and 3 right at my target with about 6-7kph more speed. Unfortunately I didn't make the right moves at the right time. I'll strike this one up for experience and I'll be back to have another go next year. In the meantime, more practice in my own time...
 
This has been quite interesting to read as everyone voices their thoughts. I thought the seniors did quite well because if you look at the averages in the finals the "kids" didn't average that much better than we did in our finals. The big difference was qualifying, ie mutiple entry, because they are simply more talented plus it's their living and they are sponsored or young and enthusiastic - remember what that was like.
Given all this seniors don't bowl on adult conditions anywhere, even on the PBA they have Seniors conditions and we should too if we are to be professional about it. People knock the house pattern but after a while the adult conditions open up anyway to provide the same thing, if you have enough hand or skill.
So all in all I enjoyed and was shocked when I looked at the adult scores to see they that a 220 average would have made all the cuts, correct me if I am wrong but I will be going back and looking forward to it. I may even stick around and have a go in the adults section next year.
 
Re: Low scoring for Seniors Nationals at Rooty Hill
To me it appeared as it was last year.
The pattern wasn't laid down until Saturday and for the first week, the shot was wofully inconsistant.
By the second wekk, the pattern had started to settle in and the scores were on the up.
By the third week, the shot was A WHOLE LOT more consistant, and the scores were through the roof ( also the quality of the bowlers was much higher).
Just looking at the scores from week to week, I'm sure it will prove my point.
There will always be someone who can find the shot, or it suits their game.
I might not be the best bowler around, but I know I'm pretty consistant. Throw 3 shots, and get 3 different results.Speed was critical.
I have never seen so many picket fences (136-7 on the left & 124-10 on the right.)
Seniors may have a soft shot compared to the "Kids", but there are a lot of good bowler young & old who struggled the first week & a half.
If the organizers were serious, the pattern would be laid down for a week before the championships started, thereby giving the Seniors a "fair go".
As I said before, that's how it was last year, and the results were the same.

My 2 cents
 
Lefty, the Nationals are in the THIRD week now. Second week was Rachuig & Masters. Which Saturday was the pattern laid ??? Dockers
 
Hi Dockers,

I was there for Seniors & Rachuig. I was told on the Sunday by 1 of the tournament officals at the begining of Seniors week there was a 300 two weeks earlier on the nationals pattern & the pattern had been down that long. Whether thats true maybe some of the locals could verify that.
 
The pattern was laid on a Thursday Night for anyone who needed to practice. Problem was the house shot came through. I believe the pattern was commenced full time from the start of the Seniors Championship on Saturday 8th October although, personally, I found the condition to be the same all the way through to restricted. The only thing I found was that certain lanes played much better than others.

Also, Kegel Oil was not used last year as AMF have been using Brunswick oil for a lot longer than a year.

Yes, Seniors have been bowling on easy patterns, all but the Sydney Classic (6:1 ratio) were approx 10:1 ratios. This was mainly due to our last tour to the Asian Seniors Championship held in Manilla in 2009 being a 10:1 ratio. Fortunately Guam has elected to bowl on a 6:1 Ratio this year and hopefully this will encourage more promoters to lower their ratios and toughen up the shot.

Susanne
:):):)
 
I bowled in a VSS tournament at Altona 18/9/11 supposedly on this pattern and it was not even remotely like Rooty Hill.
The majority of bowlers struggled,(ask Trotts) but a few(including myself) had a shot, but it was completely different from one end of the house to the other(same at Rooty Hill).
I've bowled on tough shots, here and in the US, but usually could find something by trying everything I brung (brought), but it's almost impossible if the shot is under and over.
It just gets to the stage that you give up mentally, and "that's all she wrote".
I personally deplore the easy house shot at just about every AMF centre, but I know it is done for economic reasons.
Through personal experience, I've found that no matter what you try, there are some centres that one cannot score on, or are not suited to your style of game.
For me, Epping Vic. is a No No, so I don't bother turning up there. Seems it is the surface more than anything.
 
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