Here we go again Seniors at Townsville.

FFS. The same rubbish that we are faced with year in year out. The centre managers that put the mighty dollar ahead of the sport have created spoilt brats for bowlers. It's nationals for Christs sake, it's not supposed to be easy. People need to get over their synthetically inflated egos and realise that they aren't as good as they think. Tough conditions are a challenge, if you don't want a challenge stay put in your nightly leagues and shutup!!!
 
I'm a firm believer in the fact that "The cream will always rise to the top" play what's in front of you because everyone around you is playing on the same conditions, of course we could also argue that it's easier on the left LOL
 
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Well, I see people like Mick Talevski who bowled 1580 for his all events......having a bad day?? I think not.
Like Brenton said there may be other factors involved here, but I for sure know that there are many seniors who really are not really interested in the sports patterns or so called tough conditions.
It's certainly no going to encourage more bowlers to come out of the wood work and bowl next year.If anything the opposite.
I will agree if its tough for all then it come back to who can cope with that.
Are they enjoying it out there?? ......some how not!
 
Amagill is right, Dockers; no matter what way you look at it.

It's the peak of national tournament... If someone bowls at league on a THS; its natural they will shoot below their average.. Afterall; its purposely a harder condition..

Out of curiosity? Who is leading seniors? and what is their average?..


All events leader is Andy McKay with 1761. Came in on a 199 average, so I'd say he is coping ok.
 
So why do many seniors bowl national ranked tournaments if they dont like the sport patterns / tough conditions?
That doesn't even make sense... It's a lot cheaper to just bowl your local house on a Thursday night...

It was hard last year; it was hard the year before that... Surely its not 'old age' that makes you keep coming back.. lol.
 
Very much looking forward to bowling on this condition next week!! A challenge makes this game interesting and brings us up with the challenging conditions that the rest of the world faces.


If I had a 210 average and only averaged 170 whilst everyone else was still averaging 200 then yeah I would be annoyed but if everyone is struggling then its an even playing field.
 
I'd just like to mention that in golf (for example), people quite enjoy playing on a tough national course and shooting 110; while still having a good time!!!

Is this a bowling problem?
 
I'm sorry guys but the thing with the nationals is its a graded event not just a national event and what has been happening in this event over the last couple year has not worked. The pattern at rooty hill was shit for 3 years it was way to aggressive in the mid-lane for the average league player looking to go away to the nationals have a GOOD TIME and bowl and these people make this event.
Its time for a change we need to start looking at tournaments as a business not a sport until we can make a product we have nothing. The current nationals format does not work in 2011 it got to a point where it got bigger then the format. It started to limit the amount of bowlers who could try for the masters due to smaller squads at the end of the week something needed to chance to let it keep growing. Nothing changed and what happened?? Its back where it was before 2010.
Is this bad luck due to losing a very good sponsor?? Or the fact we need to change the way we look at the game so it can grow??
I think the national tour needs to be really looked at we are playing on patterns to (make aus teams bowl better overseas) does these mean we are running tournament for 6% of the players, shouldn't we be trying to find a way to get more new league players into these events and GET THEM TO COME TO A 2ND EVENT and bring their mate too??

Its time to build a product that can be sold outside of the bowling industry just cause you done it one way for 50 years it don't mean its correct and changes you make tomorrow may not work in a years time but if you are smart you will have new ideas ready to go.

Thats just what i think.
 
Well hello everyone. Its been a while since I was on here last, but having just bowled over the weekend, I thought I should put by two cents in.

Walshy, spot on about the format. Its unrealistic to expect people to travel up to Townsville twice, once to qualify, and then again for the Masters. I had to drive an 800km round trip, but I feel for anyone who would have to fly, its far too expensive to travel to Townsville twice. Surely we could bring forward teams events and free up some more room for qualifying.

As for what the Nationals are all about, sure its for everyone, but it is our national championships. It should be challenging. I do understand that Im someone who loves being challenged on the lanes, but I know that to keep everyone outside the top 5% happy, people need to go away from the lanes feeling happy, and the only way people do that is by bowling well. The top 5% of bowlers know that scores aren't what you should measure a successful day on, but thats why they are the top 5%.

I found it pretty tough on the weekend, I even bowled a 428 for 3 games. I didnt leave Kirwin thinking what a sh*thole it was, but more what I need to do to get better. Id much rather be in Kirwin than Mackay, were ive bowled more than double my 428 for 3 games more than once. I know which one is going to make me a better bowler (Kirwin if you weren't sure), and at the end of the day thats what will make me happier. I dont want to just get lucky one weekend and out carry everyone, I want to be like the guys that I've watched for the last 15 years, who week in week out beat me, people like Walshy, Brando, George, Porto, Glen Loader, etc, who regardless of the conditions, have a realistic chance of winning. I dont think the lane conditions are a good enough excuse for bowling sh*t.

But hey, its impossible to make everyone happy. Regardless of whether you bowl 50 pins under average or 50 pins over average, bowling is a social sport, lets just have fun, because thats the only thing we can control.

And on that Dr. Phil note, good luck to everyone bowling Nationals.
 
I know we are seniors but are most peoples memories that bad. It's nothing new,
Nationals + tougher conditions = lower scores. 2 + 2 = 4.

Some past Seniors Challenges

2012 Rooty Hill
2 bowlers over 200ave for All Events. 4th ave 194

2011 Rooty Hill
6 bowlers over 200ave for All Events

2009 Mt Gravatt
Top ave All Events 197

2010, 2008 stats not available on TBA.

Do we really need to rehash the same sh!t every year just for the sake of having something ELSE to b!tch about.
 
Its either people are complaining about the condition being too hard or people complaining about the condition being too easy...
Can't win


The problem at the minute is trying to find a middle ground.

In 2009, three patterns were run. One for Nationals (which included Snr Challenge), one for Rachuig and one for Masters. Is it time something like this was reconsidered? Progressively making each pattern tighter?
 
I made a similar post about patterns and nationals but in relation to the juniors a couple of years ago.

The basic gist was I felt as though the pattern laid down for the juniors for their nationals was too hard for the majority, especially considering the amount of younger juniors that attend nationals compared to when I was competing, sure they had young, young kids, but not very many, now there are plenty especially playing for state teams due to lack of numbers.

My suggestion is very similar to Craig's above and in essence along the line of Jase's above that. They should have various patterns for various levels of competition. At the end of the day, the seniors (generally, so don't get your pitchforks out just yet) tend to bowl on modified sports patterns that are (generally) easier than standard. Now why would they want to attend Nationals on a one fits all pattern and struggle their backside off (and I am not agreeing with Dockers because as far as I am concerned you are a shit stirrer with nothing better to do with your time), but they are used to bowling on higher averaging patterns and, being in the twilight of their bowling careers have done the hard yards, bowled on the crap and come out the other side, why subject them the tough stuff all over again.

Seniors are also part of the biggest bowling population in the country, why piss them off and make them not want to come back. And believe me I don't believe in bowing down to make a group happy just because they might spit the dummy, but at the end of the day, as Jase alluded to above, this is the group above all others that enjoy the travel, catching up with old bowling buddies and are there for the fun mixed with competition. You want them coming back and they have been around the block a million times, so have nothing to prove. Most seniors aren't deluded into thinking they are better than they actually are (maybe lol).

So back to the multiple pattern suggestion, my idea was to predominantly use it for championship events, have the patterns still based around sports based patterns or whatever you want really, but have at least two separate patterns, one for lower average players that still gets them to focus on playing a certain part of the lane but doesn't require the average bowler to cart 40 balls with them to cope. The next pattern to be the harder one for higher average players, ie the WTBA patterns we use etc. This can be adapted to say using the higher scoring pattern for seniors and the restricted teams tournament and using the WTBA pattern for Rachuig. Splitting the centre up in entries ie oiling X percentage with the easier pattern and the rest with the harder pattern on event days. Nothing is perfect obviously, but whilst we do need to consider how to increase entries, there still need to be a focus on improving players skill levels on tougher patterns, having a couple of patterns with a progression in mind, still funnels bowlers towards increasing their skill level to possibly obtaining the necessary skills to cope with overseas patterns. Let's face it, we have not sent a team overseas capable of coping with the patterns for a good many years.

The TBA also need to wise up as Jase alluded to in regards to the scheduling for nationals and events. No fault of Robbie's and I am nowhere near suggesting it because he has pulled out all stops to prepare for Nationals and hats off to him, but with Rachuig and the other team events taking up the majority of the centre, it doesn't allow for day time qualifying for Masters, so those that aren't involved in the team comps throughout the 3 weeks, have limited time to qualify for their respective Masters event. Yes there is plenty of things to do being a holiday spot, but for those with limited time off work, they aren't looking for the holiday/bowling experience. Take the last week as case in point, Sat, Sun, Mon are all open to bowling events, fair enough, Rachuig - Tue, Wed and Thurs with two squads each night after, one being a teams squad, so that is all you can do that particular night if you need to bowl a teams, then come back the next night and do your singles or doubles. Ideally what should happen when the Nationals are to be held in a centre without excess lanes during the day is to change the schedule slightly, move Rachuig to the Mon, Tues and Wed and allow for people to bowl events all day the Thurs and Fri morning. When qualifying for Masters is so important based on the format and previous amounts of prizemoney, and it just remains in the current format, it's like we have gone full circle having a non existent tournament product to creating something spectacular to heading back to a non existent part of the tournament again. The schedule and format just doesn't work.

Now if we really want to re hash old topics and what not, another point Jase made was that we also need to fix up National tournaments, and my personal opinion hasn't changed in the last few years since I suggested it way back when.

Tiered levels of tournaments, Gold, Silver and Bronze, and if we have to use the sport patterns, base them accordingly as per tier of tournament. Maximum of four majors for the year, all played on WTBA or PBA based patterns (gold level), whatever. 4-6 lower tournaments, still nationally spread, played on medium skill patterns (silver) and bronze based patterns, for events as per say tournament series played within each state that run a tournament series.

Again funnelling players skill levels towards obtaining the skills to play on OS patterns if they so wish. It allows for those not wanting to pay huge entry fees and play on tough patterns the opportunity to get into tournaments from league play by playing bronze level tournaments, then after time bowling these they may want to step up into a silver level tournament being played in their state and so on. Whilst we should really be catering for the majority, we also need to be pushing this majority to increase their skill level.

Nothing beats education and there is so much scope for things to happen.
 
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