Its Not The Balls - It's The Lanes. A Comparison with US Open Golf

Samael,
You guys constantly amaze me, on one hand we have established that the top bowlers in the country make up a minority, but then all talk is geared towards the top percentile of bowlers having issues. Isnt this surposed to be about issues faced with the future of bowling?

ALL sports are about the top 1% of participants. Do you think juniors would turn out every weekend for rugby league if it wasn't for the NRL? The whole point of this thread is about the issues facing bowling as a SPORT. And to remain relevant, a sport needs a standard to strive for. This is what is missing in the SPORT of tenpin bowling today. There will always be social bowling, and 'social' leagues for people who just want to come in and have a good time, but the future of bowling as a SPORT relies on the existence of an elite level of bowler, and a repect for the abilities of those bowlers. Ditched up lanes and super balls diminish that respect, in the eyes of many league bowlers and the general public. And this in turn diminishes the SPORT of bowling.
 
No that is a load of rubbish.

People continually post what needs to be changed, what effects the game of bowling, how to get people back into the sport, why people are leaving, all of this has very little effect on the core of the bowling community when they start talking about things which only effect the minority.

What happens at an elite level has very little (to nill) effect on the bowling community in australia. Why? when was the last time you picked up the paper and heard reports of a local bowler? when was the last time you heard anything remotely connecting bowling in the media? when have times been published in various news sources for local bowling tournaments, when did you pickup tv guide and see bowling on the tv? Now, where do you see the NRL?

Just for arguments sake, have you ever played rugby league as a junior? have you seen the amount of development that goes on at a junior level? both financial support from local associations and businesses, development squads designed to recognise talent and further their development, routine local, state and national competitions exist for all skill levels, and nation wide publicity are what football thrives off . The NRL has been saying for the past 5-7 years, the future of their sport (especially now with AFL taking hold in key rugby areas) exists with the juniors and getting more people into rugby. Without a firm establishment at a junior level nothing can be achieved, many clubs are facing this very problem now. Lack of development at the base level of the sport leaves nobody to progress through to become part of the elite sporting ranks. It is a fact, without a stable ground for the majority, the top percentile folds.

Explain to me how the "elite" bowlers in our sport have an effect on what goes on at a grass level when there is no representation to members of the public, no recognition of achievements, and virtually no spotlight on the sport at all.

People are being down right stupid if they use the words improve bowling and sport conditions and ball technology in the same sentence. You can bring all this into the game and it is not going to effect the average bowler, they wont have to change anything, they wont be effected by tough new laws, they probably wont even see a sport condition in their life (just assume for a moment that a sport condition made it nationally outside of ranked competition).

The average bowler who makes up the majority of our sport is effected by what goes on at his/her center and what evolves around their association. They care about what personally effects them, all of the points raised are key issues faced by day to day bowlers each time they walk into a center and they need to be addressed now. To take a viewpoint contrary to this is to show just how out of touch you are with the bowling community.

To increase numbers in bowling, to generate more talent within the sport, it has to exist at a grass roots level, not at the highest form of competition we have available.

If a similar situation happened in australia today like what has happened to the PWBA, if all national events ceased to exist for a year, do you think it is going to affect the 2 league a week bowler? the very same person who might bowl the odd local event and might make the step up to a regional event once or twice a year as they pass through his/her area?

No, it simply wont, why? Because circumstances have not changed, he/she still continues bowling like before, tournament life continues (remember, he/she isn’t part of the elite bowling community so they don’t attend national events), nothing has changed in his bowling life. This is the majority of our sport, these are the people who generate the money so a top level competition can exist. Now what happens if you do not address problems the majority faces? bowlers leave in droves. What have we been facing for the past 7-8 years? With the collapse of our governing body, the upheaval of associations and the closing of centers, do you think this has all occurred because a select few individuals which number in the hundreds have been doing it tough with conditions and technology shutting people out of the game? Or do you think it is because the core of our bowling is no longer happy with the sport and feels that they aren’t being shown enough attention and that their needs aren’t being met?

You only have to look at the business plan for AMF and where their focus is being directed to validate every single point I have raised. They have recognised this is an issue, they understand where their money comes from and they (for all the talking that goes on) are putting in place steps to see these problems are corrected.

I leave with something simple, take a handful of various centers nation wide. Do a bit of study with the bowling community, go into a center with a bunch of head shots of various elite stars of our sport, and see what percentages are returned when you ask people to put names to the faces.

The problems I listed above is what will get bowlers back in the door, elite sports people inspire juniors and the youth (heck, even adults) to strive to improve their games in an effort to further their development and hopefully join them, but this (for the large part) only effects bowlers already participating in the sport. How can these people have an effect on new bowlers when they aren’t coming through the doors to sign up in the first place?

The simple answer is they can’t and this is why bowling is in trouble.
 
Yes Samael you are right in some respect, but the fact still remains that we will not get Government support and funding to a fair extent until the sanctioning bodies of this country at both state and national level start to pull there finger out and start seeing eye to eye. Just in Victoria I did a bit of investigating as to the amount of funding we got from the state government. Turns out there are 3 catergories of funding and Tenpin Bowling is in Catergory 3 as according to the Government we have less then 1500 registered bowlers in this state and we all know that this is a load of s**t. This problem has occurred because our local sanctioning bodies are at loggerheads over who is more important and/or who has more to offer.

The sport of bowling has no structure, period. Could you imagine Rugby League or Australian rules surviving without an organised structure from the grassroots to local competitions to the main body (AFL or NRL). THis sport has nothing because everything is run at centre level. In Victorian we would have at least 25000 registered bowlers, whether it be with MTBA, CTBAM or the TBA but the bowler information has to get back to the registered government organisation which is VIC Tenpins. You cannot register with he organisation directly, you have to register with one of the other 3 bodies and then these bodies are to pass this information on to Vic Tenpins which is not being done.

So unless there is some structure introduced within this sport no amount of improvement will come.

Matthew Lambrick
 
Exactly right Matthew. And this won't change until the Board members of TBA pull their collective heads out of the sand and change the membership structure of the National Governing Body.
But thats far too hard.
 
To all those who don't believe that changing lane conditions is the major answer to bringing scoring back to reasonable levels............

LOOK AT THE PRESIDENTS SHIELD SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then look at the pattern on the TBA website.

They all have the latest and greatest of equipment, with off label drillings, weight holes etc. Set up the right condition and the equipment is NEUTRALISED! and this is on a 2.43:1 pattern! Imagine it was on a 1:1!

Accuracy and spare shooting has become paramount. I have experienced and seen these conditions first hand, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
 
oil 28

buff 37

total mls per lane 21

of course the current day ball isn't going to work, patterns haven't been that short for 15 years.

either way the ball business is history

they either kill the dynamics or they oil them out of business

either way, the ball is going going gone !!!
 
Craig is right it's not the oil ratio it's the length, at Mayfield we have been oiling 43-45 feet for a long time. 37 feet is scorable if the backends are'nt too big, but if the backends are big than this proves my theory to kill the Reactive ball than take off the oil.

The thing I don't like is the fact they are using the Juniors as Guinea Pigs with the oil patterns, these kids are the best in thier State and thier being humiliated by the conditions, while everyone stands back and laughs, saying this is the real World, unfortunately they are wrong this is another tricked up condition that he kids wer'nt prepared for.

If anyone out there thinks that these kids bowling games of 110 or 120 is great for thier character they are kidding this will only embarress the kids and force them from the sport. These kids have been practicing more than anyone else in the Country in the last couple of months, more than the Amanda Bradley's or Micheal Little's and what happens they are given a condition that is unscorable and they have not encountered before.

All this practise with many buying new equipment has been a great cost to thier parents and what happens the organisers let them down with substandard lane conditions.

A great injustice has been done.

JMHO
willey.
 
Why were the bowlers humiliated, what were the scores, were they close, the thing is whether or not you ditch up the lanes or toughen them up every bowler has to bowl on the same condition. Bowling is not all about big scores and mammoth averages its about accuracy and consistancy. You learn more fr4om throwing 120 on a tough condition then 190 on a ditch. Isn't it about time conditions were toughen up.

There are only about 4 bowlers in this country that would survive over in the States. 90% of bowlers in this country need an area to shoot at. Take out the area and they struggle. That is what ditched up league conditions have created. Tough conditions need to be standard from league upwards if we are to improve the sport in this country.

Matthew Lambrick
 
37 feet or so is pretty standard up here. Highly polish up your gear and suddenly those reactive balls go great again. Whether it's 37 feet or 45 feet, you can always find a way around the length of the oil.

If the ratio is changed it makes a big difference. However, if you attempt to make the reaction of the ball defunct, what does this really achieve? Ball companies aren't going to be happy if they aren't selling as much of their top line stuff. Ball companies are the major sponsor behind most large tournaments. The ball companies say "lay that pattern and we won't sponsor you anymore". I do not see how these moves can possibly be good for the sport. So yes, the averages come down 20, 30, 40 pins, and everybody in the tournament still places in the same order, just with a lower average. I don't see how this is going to raise the popularity of the sport. You're just as likely to lose players this way as you are by having "inflated" scores.

I'm all for tightening up patterns, but it should be based on accuracy and speed, rather than trying to kill ball reaction.

At the end of the day, the positions will not change with changes in conditions. The same people will come to the top no matter what. But you have to consider, is it really the best option to make some of the changes being proposed? Or would it be better to start marketing the sport properly. Or to change the way the sport's governing bodies operate, in terms of structure. Or to raise funds and bowling community support in written form to get bowling back on tv?

I think there is a lot of other issues that need looking at first before some of the proposed changes are made.
 
the kids are throwing the same scores as juniors were throwing 20 years ago

r these kids any better than carl bottomley and carol gianotti

yes they have superior technology, in balls and lane conditions, but in skill level i think it would be hard to find any 2 there with the same or more potential as the 2 mentioned above

in 1986 and 1987 carl averaged 186, and they were in 2 terribly tough houses, rushcutter and rockhampton, carl had already been an FIQ member by this stage and a medal winning one at that, carl had better stats at shield than the 2 i mentioned, but i thought it made for a good example for those concerned about todays juniors averaging in the 190's

i personally just think things are getting put back into perspective

9pin wonderboy made a point about patterns being matched up to accuracy and speed, i half agree, but i drop the speed variable to the point as its hard to ask the majority to fall into a category which may not suit them, but the accuracy has to be the superior goal we aim for, we are a target sport at the end of the day

willey, i think looking at some of the states rachuig qualifying averages, the adults are gonna get quite a good dose of toughness of their own

i might be old fashioned, but i know the ways things were when i think we were going well as a sport, we were getting record numbers at events, getting better exposure on tv and in general better population of bowling.

and the numbers talk for them self
 
Craig, 1987 is a good example, I did the lanes for South Pacific in 1987 at Bankstown, now lets see, the first 300 in South Pacific finals (Barbara Richmond, it was actually a preview tourny but was sanctioned under the SPC banner ), Silvano Prez first 8 games in Qualifying avg. 242, Carol Gionotti eventually out averaged the men with an overall avg. of 216 but did'nt win the tourny. Other stats from the SPC, 206 cut off average for the men, which at the time was a World Record for an Amatuer event.

All this was done without a wall, the bowlers could shoot wherever suited thier style and speed on the lanes. Some of the keys to scoring were used in this event, the lanes were perfectly clean(cleaner than todays technology can produce), we replaced all the Kickback panels and coated with Amflite2 pincoat, all the Flat Gutters were tightened down, the lanes had been re-surfaced earlier that year ensuring the Ski Sloping in front of the Pindecks was removed.

All these scores without help from the lanes and the most advanced ball of the day the Blue Pearl Hammer. This is why I am not opposed to high scoring, the high scoring of today with the hook-in-a-box balls, the advancement in lane oiling machines, as well as an overall advancement in knowledge, is not that bad, thats why I am opposed to tricking up the lanes to kill the scores. I am opposed to the WALLS. We used to have rules in this Country that stopped them but unfortunately the than ATBC dropped the ball and we got what they were doing in the States.

So if anyone out there thinks what is happening at the President Shield is right, than they are sadly mistaken, it's not real, it's all a TRICK.

JMHO
willey.
 
I can't see much wrong with the scores at presidents shield. All these guys are shooting at around the same rate. It looks like there is a premium on spare shooting, and acuracy with ball speed.

Look at werribee yth. There was no high scores shot yet it was even across the field. The lane condition required acuracy and speed control.

Stick it out guys and make ur spares!!!
 
That's nice Tonx, I don't know what your looking at but have a good look at the Girls scores, over 100 games bowled below 140 out of 800 games in total, some even below 100. Many of the girls bowling 40-50 pins below entering avg.

These are the best in the Country and thier made to look mediocre. All because there are people out there thinking they don't deserve to score, it did'nt happen in the old days so it's too easy today. If you look at my earlier post you can see we did get scores prior to Reactive balls and prior to WALLS, so with the knowledge of today, Reactive balls, improved lane oiling techniques and Coaching, there is something wrong if they don't score.

Watching over the last couple of days I have noticed a few of the Boys teams have adjusted to the conditions and improved but if you seen the first day scores this showed how badly they played the lanes and how unprepared they were for the conditions.

Now I will quote a famous American Coach seeing this whole thread is a comparison with Golf " IN GOLF YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE TREE'S ARE " Fred Borden, this he said in one of his trips downunder in the early 90's when doing ball drilling classes.

willey.
 
Willey.

Do not complain the scores are too low FOR GODS SAKE!

If the scores were higher, we would have the score haters on here saying that the lanes were too easy, that they should be harder

Now that the scores were brought down we have you having a cry that that is not the way to do it, that these kids are being humiliated by these conditions. They are not being humiliated as the top bowlers scored higher than the less experienced/less skilled bowlers. Its as simple as that.

GET OVER IT PLEASE!!! Congratulate the kids for bowling the largest jnr meet in Australia.
 
Tonx, my only complaint is these are artificially de-flated scores instead of artificially in-flated scores.

They did'nt all handle it, some good bowlers got left behind.

willey.
 
I think there just needs to be variable conditions, not one set condition that you will automatically know before you start how the lanes will be.

At my centre, it has been around for about 30 years and there is still yet to be a 300 game.

The conditions range from slightly dry to medium-wet oil. I never know how they will play night to night. Our top average is only just over 200 and there is probably no more than 2 or 3 over 180.

I have an average of 179 currently and am happy to be bowling at that average, i would love to average more and given the inflated averages at other centres, if i was elsewhere i maybe would. I like the challenge of bettering myself through changing conditions.

I have bowled on city lanes and been presented with huge blocks of oil in the middle of the lane. A board or two either way makes no difference since the oil keeps the ball where the high scorers want it.

If there is to be a change to the lane conditions. they should be made variable...thats all
 
The Wednesday night league I bowl in had light-medium oil for the last 3 months or so, fairly similar each week... then this week, it was fairly heavy oil across the whole lane, with a fair bit of carrydown (school holiday scariness?). The league currently has two bowlers who average over 200, and they both did fairly well... but there were a lot of grumpy/upset 170+ average people grumbling the whole night about the "bad lanes" :) I'm glad that at least one week this season was an entirely different condition, as it certainly highlights the difference between the average bowlers and the good ones.
 
Everyone uses the term "our sport", "our" to show that it is theirs and "sport" to emphasise the fact that bowling is a sport and not just a game, pastime or hobby.
Can you imagine a sport where:
1. Weekly competition is played on the same ground against the same people week after week, year after year.
2. The playing surface is set up make competitors believe that they are more skillful than they are just to keep the customers happy.
Only bowling.

If we want "our sport" to be just that, firstly, there must be the facility for bowlers to try out their skills on a "sport" condition, to have an appreciation of the difference between skillful shot execution and bowling on a lane where if you try to throw the ball to the gutter it will still make it back to the pocket and if you miss a few spares you will still score well because of the number if strikes you get.
Centres need to set one night aside for a league with a sport condition, where there is an "out of bounds" where if you miss, you miss. Then some bowlers will choose to go back to the house condition and some, probably fewer, will decide that they need to learn to be better bowlers.
Then we will have a sport.
 
I totally agree with Brenton on this one and it was definately highlighted during Shield and Nationals this year. The lane conditions at Tuggeranong made everyone think and be accurate!!! Looking across lanes I don't know how many times I saw a 2-10, 2-8-10, 2-4-8-10, and washouts because people had missed their targets!!! And this is the way it should be!! Of course there was a line and moving around you could manage only to leave easy spares off high and light hits no matter what shot you played, but you had to keep moving and finding the line!!! The condition made all bowlers think and bowlers suffered dearly for trying to force balls into the corners to make spares and tugging it to make a strike happen to win a game!! The games in Shield were made closer this year than last because this year if you tugged it inside or let it go wide you left a split because you didn't execute the shot properly. Last year you would've got a strike a would've won your point for your team, but is that rite??? If you didn't execute the shot properly do you really deserve that point???? Plus the lanes were not totally unscoreable, Hamish chucked close to if not a 700 series for the first 3 games, and there was still heaps of 240's, 230's bowled!!! Thats my spin on it!!!

Dion A
 
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