Totally agree
How to shatter a bowlers ambition
- Thread starter mannah
- Start date
Totally agree
strop
Elite Athlete
I agree with you Brenton, Perform or Perish.........
Too bad our team didn't follow that philosophy............one of our bolwers
lost 8 out of his first 9, yet he still kept himself in, it's just lucky and I mean lucky he eventually came good up to a point.........Risky though...!!!!
You right also ....it's about winning............isn't it?
Cheers
Tony
Too bad our team didn't follow that philosophy............one of our bolwers
lost 8 out of his first 9, yet he still kept himself in, it's just lucky and I mean lucky he eventually came good up to a point.........Risky though...!!!!
You right also ....it's about winning............isn't it?
Cheers
Tony
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
I believe that the comment perform or perish is too harsh.
There are times when you find a top bowler struggling but they aren't dropped because they "might" come good.
At the moment Rachig is struggling for numbers and this could be due to cost and number of games.
Why not look at other team events like Seniors and Holt. Try a different format and see how things go.
Sitting back and doing nothing normally ends in tears.
There are times when you find a top bowler struggling but they aren't dropped because they "might" come good.
At the moment Rachig is struggling for numbers and this could be due to cost and number of games.
Why not look at other team events like Seniors and Holt. Try a different format and see how things go.
Sitting back and doing nothing normally ends in tears.
Alex
Aleko
Even though im not a bowler anymore i experienced the same situation last year in the 2008 team. This is a tournament where you have to accept that whether your bowling and/or supporting you can still give 100% no matter what, i got 2 games last year and that was based on the fact that i couldnt bowl, i accepted it took it on the chin and supported the team until the very end.
Sometimes the best experience in bowling is not actually bowling but showing support will make you better and then there is always next year, take every chance given and you know what Chris has many years ahead of him theres no point giving up just after one year.
Alex
Sometimes the best experience in bowling is not actually bowling but showing support will make you better and then there is always next year, take every chance given and you know what Chris has many years ahead of him theres no point giving up just after one year.
Alex
All sports with team events have the same process with members who are 'sitting in the bench', but they are just as important as the members on the field / lanes / court.
Supporting, cheering etc are just as vital in a team - and ALL members should recognise this - both on and off the lanes. Injury, no reserve, no points.
The Coaches and Managers are there to make the impartial decisions for the best result. They are experienced and can see the bigger picture without prejudice.
Good luck to all the bowlers for Australian Masters.
Leanne
Supporting, cheering etc are just as vital in a team - and ALL members should recognise this - both on and off the lanes. Injury, no reserve, no points.
The Coaches and Managers are there to make the impartial decisions for the best result. They are experienced and can see the bigger picture without prejudice.
Good luck to all the bowlers for Australian Masters.
Leanne
steve jones
Active Member
So what we have as our premier, Open annual Teams tournament is an event that.......
1. Is impossible to pronounce unless you are from within the clique
2. Has a complex points system to determine the overall champion
3. Probably fails to encourage participation because if you do win a place in the team there is no guarantee you will actually play a game.
Now you can quote me endless sports and events that also don't guarantee you a start once you make a team - and I will counter you with seemingly endless alternatives that do...so that point is mute.
What isn't however is the fact that when I was "selling" bowling to the media - the hardest task was to get any sort of real acceptance of Rachuig because of #1 above. So I changed the emphasis of the name and the way we pitched it and simply sold it for what it is - which is my opening line.
Here's the point - this is bowling, we are not [sadly] sports page fodder. If we want this event to at least gain some sort of public attention surely one of the keys is to make it attractive to those who are potential players...as many as you can. Why on earth make it harder than it already is - and God knows the event is hardly an attention getter....and it should be an attention getter because of the fact of WHAT it is - ref: my opening line once again.
Still it might be that tradition and false bravado from within the clique will rule the day - if so then the outcome will be a long slow death....sadly, I think it's already started.
1. Is impossible to pronounce unless you are from within the clique
2. Has a complex points system to determine the overall champion
3. Probably fails to encourage participation because if you do win a place in the team there is no guarantee you will actually play a game.
Now you can quote me endless sports and events that also don't guarantee you a start once you make a team - and I will counter you with seemingly endless alternatives that do...so that point is mute.
What isn't however is the fact that when I was "selling" bowling to the media - the hardest task was to get any sort of real acceptance of Rachuig because of #1 above. So I changed the emphasis of the name and the way we pitched it and simply sold it for what it is - which is my opening line.
Here's the point - this is bowling, we are not [sadly] sports page fodder. If we want this event to at least gain some sort of public attention surely one of the keys is to make it attractive to those who are potential players...as many as you can. Why on earth make it harder than it already is - and God knows the event is hardly an attention getter....and it should be an attention getter because of the fact of WHAT it is - ref: my opening line once again.
Still it might be that tradition and false bravado from within the clique will rule the day - if so then the outcome will be a long slow death....sadly, I think it's already started.
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
In just about every team sport you can nominate, the "Top" player has earned a few gold passes as a result of high level of performance over a long period of years.
That's the reality of elite level sport.
Rachuig's declining participation rate is nothing to do with the format. It is a result of there being too many opportunities to "earn" a state team birth. THere used to be two state teams
1. Rachuig
2. President's Shield
which catered to the elite level of bowlers in the adult and junior ranks.
NOW......
1. Rachuig
2. President's Shield
3. National Youth Challenge
4. ATBSO Scratch Challenge
5. ATBSO Restricted Challenge
6. Holt Challenge
7. Holt Classic Challenge
8. TBA Seniors
9. TBA Restricted
and in the Eastern states there is also East Coast Challenge
No wonder the nomination numbers have declined in Rachuig. There is not another sport where you have so many opportunities to make a state team and, as a result, Rachuig no longer has the prestige it used to. IN addition, given the move towards minimum games per player, Rachuig is seen AS TOO HARD.
Too many people want a free ride these days and no-one wants to serve an apprenticeship anymore. A question to all those who want a minimum no. of games....
How would you feel if your 10 games (or however many the minimum is) happened to cost your state the Rachuig tournament?
Answer this question honestly and then see if you still want a minimum number of games instituted into Rachuig, just to "be fair to everyone".
Peter Coburn
Sponsor
IMHO, introducing minimum games would result in the best team of 7 bowlers winning Rachuig. Not the best 5 bowlers and 2 bench warmers.
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
Brenton,
While i respect your opinion and your right to have it, I think it's crap.
I've met a total of 2 people who have bowled holt or any of the restricted tournaments who claim to be in a state team. For the record I've put them both in their place.
But please stop ... all I would like to do is bowl against people of my own ability and have a great time while I'm doing it. I bowled Classic Holt this year, and was unable to try out for Rachuig due to work commitments, not that I would have made it into either QLD team, though i have tried before ... but i digress.
If my 10 games or so cost my state the title how would I feel? ... depends if all the other guys won all of their points. Then, if so ... they could blame me. It's a team game ... is it 5 man teams or 7 man?
If some teams only brought 5 players this year, they would have found themselves a couple short due to injuries.
I think Rachuig is ok.... it's not dying at all. There is just a cost factor involved, and if I'm going to spend three grand for a week of bowling, quite frankly, I'd like to bowl.
With due respect.
Peter Martin.
While i respect your opinion and your right to have it, I think it's crap.
I've met a total of 2 people who have bowled holt or any of the restricted tournaments who claim to be in a state team. For the record I've put them both in their place.
But please stop ... all I would like to do is bowl against people of my own ability and have a great time while I'm doing it. I bowled Classic Holt this year, and was unable to try out for Rachuig due to work commitments, not that I would have made it into either QLD team, though i have tried before ... but i digress.
If my 10 games or so cost my state the title how would I feel? ... depends if all the other guys won all of their points. Then, if so ... they could blame me. It's a team game ... is it 5 man teams or 7 man?
If some teams only brought 5 players this year, they would have found themselves a couple short due to injuries.
I think Rachuig is ok.... it's not dying at all. There is just a cost factor involved, and if I'm going to spend three grand for a week of bowling, quite frankly, I'd like to bowl.
With due respect.
Peter Martin.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
A "team" consists of five bowlers..which is the maximum allowed to be playing at any one time.
A "squad" or "side" consists of any number you pick that's higher than five.
Call it a "starting team" and a bench if you like but it's still only five bowlers to a lane.
aphelion
Vittu Perkele Saatana!
You've nailed it there, Marto. I have no illusions of being a Rachuig bowler (though I have tried out in the past), but if I laid out the best part of $3000, took a week off work, and fulfilled all the other (some of which are frankly bullsh*t) commitments, I'd be expecting to be a bit more involved than just sitting on the bench being a cheerleader.
The minimum games rule is a good one. It'd force team management to properly manage their interchanges, much like every other team sport on the planet (since we all seem to love comparing bowling to golf, football, etc.).
Once the Rachug system starts paying bowlers to participate, then the teams can start using their (non-clique) members as drinks waiters and ball fetchers.
steve jones
Active Member
Brenton you may be correct - you're a good deal closer to the game at this level than I am - but surely if Rachuig is declining because of vast alternatives this is an even stronger reason to implement a change that may assist to improve it's own participation numbers...and taking the moral high ground is good when you are leading the pack - it seems however that Rachuig is not leading the pack.
It is said that in life there are only two real certainties, death and taxes. In business there a few more than two, but not all that many, however I know one that is iron clad and it is guaranteed to produce 365 days a year.
"Keep it a Secret Marketing" is a sure but - after obvious decline you elect to stay the current course and do nothing and tell no one, you will fail - all day, every day until you disappear. This is as certain as death and taxes.
Rachuig needs to be re-marketed, re-branded, made more attractive, and be "sold" as what it is - the premier National Open annual Teams tournament in the country. Failing to do so will kill it.
Steve
It is said that in life there are only two real certainties, death and taxes. In business there a few more than two, but not all that many, however I know one that is iron clad and it is guaranteed to produce 365 days a year.
"Keep it a Secret Marketing" is a sure but - after obvious decline you elect to stay the current course and do nothing and tell no one, you will fail - all day, every day until you disappear. This is as certain as death and taxes.
Rachuig needs to be re-marketed, re-branded, made more attractive, and be "sold" as what it is - the premier National Open annual Teams tournament in the country. Failing to do so will kill it.
Steve
Unbelievable people.
Rauchig is meant to be the height of interstate COMPETITION in this country.
When legends like Brenton Davy say it's perform or perish, then it's time to listen. This not a schoolyard team, it is the best of each State going right at it.
Would you expect Australia to have to give each member of the Aussie mens basketball team equal time at the olympics? NEVER!!!! Can you imagine the howls of protest if it was ever suggested? So why do it here - GROW UP, this is competition.
If we are not getting attendances like we should, then obviously something should be done but the essence of it being a top level competition can not be changed.
What ever changes are made will be complicated and are not short term.
We could rebrand the competition (ie: change the name), hold it in the middle of Nationals, change the format to shorter (more intense games), make it singles doubles, tirples rather than five person teams. Hold the event at night, rather than during the day. Introduce bonus points for significant wins (so that no-one throws in the towel). Maybe even introduce a baker format. Similar to many tournaments, why not have a step ladder final at the end of the competition (this is where we can get crowds and crowds lead to sponsors and sponsors lead to TV and on it goes).
What about creating a Champions League T20 type concept, where the winning team competes against others from the region?
I am sure that everyone out there can come up with a lot better ideas.
However, what we come up with has to account for the fact that this is a competition and that essential essence must reamin.
Des
Rauchig is meant to be the height of interstate COMPETITION in this country.
When legends like Brenton Davy say it's perform or perish, then it's time to listen. This not a schoolyard team, it is the best of each State going right at it.
Would you expect Australia to have to give each member of the Aussie mens basketball team equal time at the olympics? NEVER!!!! Can you imagine the howls of protest if it was ever suggested? So why do it here - GROW UP, this is competition.
If we are not getting attendances like we should, then obviously something should be done but the essence of it being a top level competition can not be changed.
What ever changes are made will be complicated and are not short term.
We could rebrand the competition (ie: change the name), hold it in the middle of Nationals, change the format to shorter (more intense games), make it singles doubles, tirples rather than five person teams. Hold the event at night, rather than during the day. Introduce bonus points for significant wins (so that no-one throws in the towel). Maybe even introduce a baker format. Similar to many tournaments, why not have a step ladder final at the end of the competition (this is where we can get crowds and crowds lead to sponsors and sponsors lead to TV and on it goes).
What about creating a Champions League T20 type concept, where the winning team competes against others from the region?
I am sure that everyone out there can come up with a lot better ideas.
However, what we come up with has to account for the fact that this is a competition and that essential essence must reamin.
Des
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
What Rachuig needs is prize money. I'm overjoyed that AMF are putting big prize money into the Masters - obviously TV will be involved - but I'd rather see a deal being struck with AMF whereby Rachuig gets at least 50% of that money.
Cant see it happening though, Team Bowling is probably not a great attraction for viewers.
Cant see it happening though, Team Bowling is probably not a great attraction for viewers.
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
Peter,
It's nice to have someone have an opposing opinion who can debate it without resorting to juvenile hissy fits.
My point tho remains. If you want a guaranteed number of games, don't nominate for Rachuig. I have met many more people who have claimed to be in a state team when representing in Holt/DeVeer and it has led to many an argument.
I retired from Rachuig after 2007 because I felt that I was no longer physically and mentally up to the challenge of 3 days of such intense competition. Players who nominate, must be, in their own minds up to the task. If they are not, they can't expect to get a free ride just because it's "fair". Yes, it's an expensive way to pay your dues, but you can't expect to get games just because you have rocked up. They must be earned.
Chris will bounce back. He is young and has a lot to learn and this years experience will stand him in good stead for future years. It's now up to him to do the work needed to be a regular team member.
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
