The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
I think your topic has been well covered.
Now .. lets get back to my dust collectors.
Now .. lets get back to my dust collectors.
A Better President Shield…
- Thread starter 01kay
- Start date
S
shaun p
well what a read.
some very interesting points raised on both sides. certainly makes room for discussion.
my opinion is that shield should stay the way it is.
representing your state at the highest level u can as a junior is quite the thrill and havin the oppurtuity to do so was a great feeling. i bowled 2-3 games in the first 2 days of shield and sure it wasnt the best feelin but our team was winning and watchin my teammate shootin 1050+ game after game was great to be apart of.
these kids have made it to state level what more could you ask for? competing against the best from other states. bringing in that sort of rule change would i beleive set the worng precident for the kids. Its a step down from bowling for your country and your going to encourage them to sit out for a game when there bowling well. not the best idea is it. thats what your junior events are for your state. as tonx said junior shield and the goldpin junior shield have min games that each player has to meet and i coulndt agree more with that rule. but thats at a much lower level to state.
coaches i guess need to take some responsibility in preparin the teams and creatin and understandin about the games issue. i suppose it somes down to communication aswell but u would find that in most teams if and individual was not performing then they would hav a rest and someone would take there place. they are at that level now and should relise that it is in the best interest of the team and this point needs to be made througout trainin sessions and team meetings.
now some teams are quite strong and they will hav bowlers that may not bowl many games but it has been discussed and bowlers are fully aware about the situation. now tassie this year had many young bowlers but if u were to look how many games they played each it was shared evenly. theyd be lookin to the future and exposin these kids to the wonderful world of state bowling.
in terms of the games i suggestion may be to discuss options with your state commitee and talk about the games issue. the rules certainly dont need changing but u may be able to work something out with your state commitee and put something in place.
thats about all i got at this stage
parlbs
some very interesting points raised on both sides. certainly makes room for discussion.
my opinion is that shield should stay the way it is.
representing your state at the highest level u can as a junior is quite the thrill and havin the oppurtuity to do so was a great feeling. i bowled 2-3 games in the first 2 days of shield and sure it wasnt the best feelin but our team was winning and watchin my teammate shootin 1050+ game after game was great to be apart of.
these kids have made it to state level what more could you ask for? competing against the best from other states. bringing in that sort of rule change would i beleive set the worng precident for the kids. Its a step down from bowling for your country and your going to encourage them to sit out for a game when there bowling well. not the best idea is it. thats what your junior events are for your state. as tonx said junior shield and the goldpin junior shield have min games that each player has to meet and i coulndt agree more with that rule. but thats at a much lower level to state.
coaches i guess need to take some responsibility in preparin the teams and creatin and understandin about the games issue. i suppose it somes down to communication aswell but u would find that in most teams if and individual was not performing then they would hav a rest and someone would take there place. they are at that level now and should relise that it is in the best interest of the team and this point needs to be made througout trainin sessions and team meetings.
now some teams are quite strong and they will hav bowlers that may not bowl many games but it has been discussed and bowlers are fully aware about the situation. now tassie this year had many young bowlers but if u were to look how many games they played each it was shared evenly. theyd be lookin to the future and exposin these kids to the wonderful world of state bowling.
in terms of the games i suggestion may be to discuss options with your state commitee and talk about the games issue. the rules certainly dont need changing but u may be able to work something out with your state commitee and put something in place.
thats about all i got at this stage
parlbs
*chook :>*
A child of bowling
Spanner, You keep referring to these juniors that sat out, as dust collectors, bench warmers, when they clearly are not!
It sounds like you are suggesting that these people had no input to the team, did nothing to help the team in any possible way but sat back on the chairs behind the lanes and sulked.
If you have ever been in a centre during President's Shield then you would know that when a bowler is out they are (in 2005 case) standing right behind the lanes, encouraging, motivating and cheering on their team mates.
They are not considered as dust collectors or bench warmers by anyone but you.
You think that sitting them out may be degrading, what about name calling? Can that not hit the spot aswell? How bout giving a little respect to the juniors and not call them names..
It sounds like you are suggesting that these people had no input to the team, did nothing to help the team in any possible way but sat back on the chairs behind the lanes and sulked.
If you have ever been in a centre during President's Shield then you would know that when a bowler is out they are (in 2005 case) standing right behind the lanes, encouraging, motivating and cheering on their team mates.
They are not considered as dust collectors or bench warmers by anyone but you.
You think that sitting them out may be degrading, what about name calling? Can that not hit the spot aswell? How bout giving a little respect to the juniors and not call them names..
Ted the Ambo
Teddy
I think the term "dust collectors" referred to medallions or trophies
*chook :>*
A child of bowling
Sorry I forgot to edit it before I posted here:
Spanner, You keep referring to these juniors that sat out, as just bench warmers, when they clearly are not!
It sounds like you are suggesting that these people had no input to the team, did nothing to help the team in any possible way but sat back on the chairs behind the lanes and sulked.
If you have ever been in a centre during President's Shield then you would know that when a bowler is out they are (in 2005 case) standing right behind the lanes, encouraging, motivating and cheering on their team mates.
They are not considered as bench warmers by anyone but you.
You think that sitting them out may be degrading, what about name calling? Can that not hit the spot aswell? How bout giving a little respect to the juniors and not call them names..
Spanner, You keep referring to these juniors that sat out, as just bench warmers, when they clearly are not!
It sounds like you are suggesting that these people had no input to the team, did nothing to help the team in any possible way but sat back on the chairs behind the lanes and sulked.
If you have ever been in a centre during President's Shield then you would know that when a bowler is out they are (in 2005 case) standing right behind the lanes, encouraging, motivating and cheering on their team mates.
They are not considered as bench warmers by anyone but you.
You think that sitting them out may be degrading, what about name calling? Can that not hit the spot aswell? How bout giving a little respect to the juniors and not call them names..
phaggy
Member
hello all,
i may not have read all the posts in this thread but i have found one thing out by looking at just one persons posts more than the other.
pres shield (PS) is about pride. pride in your state, in ur self and in ur ability to be able to bowl your best when it is needed. in PS anyone can beat anyone, ur lowest average bowler can beat the top all star with one good game. it comes down to who has the better mental game in that game.
spanner, r u a disgruntled ex junior who didnt make the shield team in sq because of politics at the time? dont worry about it cox the politics are sitll there. i would just like to know because there r a lot of juniors in sq that r like that.
last yr in illawarra, one of my team mates only bowled 3 games while 3 of the top 4 averaged bowlers in the team (4 sq boys made the top 10 of shield) yet he stayed one the lanes at all times, and yes he was proud of his efforts and it made him work harder to get into the team this yr and bowl more games. it isnt because he is a shit bowler, he knew at the time that there was not a shot there for him at all no matter how hard he tried but he was still happy coz he got his name on the shield and no one can take that away from you. he was one of the leaders of the team this yr because of the experience from last year.
01kay, you should take the good with the bad. maybe u werent selected because of ur inability to stay consistent or because the selectors saw a chance of winning with another guy in the team. ur name is on the boys shield from last yr and you should be happy because there are a lot of good juniors who bowled shield, were top all star and still never ever got their names on any of the shields.
anyway thats my two cents worth.
Phillip Fagg
i may not have read all the posts in this thread but i have found one thing out by looking at just one persons posts more than the other.
pres shield (PS) is about pride. pride in your state, in ur self and in ur ability to be able to bowl your best when it is needed. in PS anyone can beat anyone, ur lowest average bowler can beat the top all star with one good game. it comes down to who has the better mental game in that game.
spanner, r u a disgruntled ex junior who didnt make the shield team in sq because of politics at the time? dont worry about it cox the politics are sitll there. i would just like to know because there r a lot of juniors in sq that r like that.
last yr in illawarra, one of my team mates only bowled 3 games while 3 of the top 4 averaged bowlers in the team (4 sq boys made the top 10 of shield) yet he stayed one the lanes at all times, and yes he was proud of his efforts and it made him work harder to get into the team this yr and bowl more games. it isnt because he is a shit bowler, he knew at the time that there was not a shot there for him at all no matter how hard he tried but he was still happy coz he got his name on the shield and no one can take that away from you. he was one of the leaders of the team this yr because of the experience from last year.
01kay, you should take the good with the bad. maybe u werent selected because of ur inability to stay consistent or because the selectors saw a chance of winning with another guy in the team. ur name is on the boys shield from last yr and you should be happy because there are a lot of good juniors who bowled shield, were top all star and still never ever got their names on any of the shields.
anyway thats my two cents worth.
Phillip Fagg
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
*chook :>* said:
WHAT THE ??
I never, at any stage in this thread, implied that there was no input from the 'bench warmers'. And if you think 'bench warmers' is name calling, you are going to have real problems when you grow up and get into the real world. It's just a slang term for 'super sub', so get used to it. I suppose you will be up Phaggy now for referring to them as 'shit bowlers'.
You are right, I've never been to a Presidents Shield. I have been to the De Veer tournament and I'm well aware of the importance of the players who are not actually playing and their roles in the team. At one stage, I was one of those players. But I was given another chance and proved my worth as a bowler in the team. These guys weren't given that chance.
And Phaggy, I'm not a disgruntled ex junior. I didn't pick up a bowling ball competitively until I was 35. But I've played or coached team sport in one form or another since I was 5 years old. I'm entitled to my opinion, as is everyone on this forum. It may not be right, but it's the one I have.
I'm a concerned parent that wouldn't fork out $2500 for one of my kids to go on a bowling hoilday and not actually play in the team he was chosen for.
Thats it ... I'M DONE.
Peter Martin.
Holy Cow....not come on this site for a week and a lot happens. If I may say so, I think that the purpose of the whole thread has been forgotten. Being part of a team and competing at shield is an incredible experience. Ask the kids that did not bowl many games if they minded, and ask what they would want. Pres Shield is an extremely competitive environment that every team wants to win. To just be part of a team is a very special moment.
These kids bowl because they want (or need) to feel they are good at something. Hopefully they take this feeling and transfer it into life. Life is not fair and can eat you up, or you can be a fighter and try to make life work for you. I know if I was 14 and had a chance to be on a team, and only bowl 2 games, would be a buzz. I would also be motivated to work hard for the next 12 months so I became a bigger part of the team.
President Shield is also not for everyone. It can make 200 avg bowlers shoot 135, and make the 145 bowler avg 190. It depends on the person. Byron Linn comes to mind from Northern. He averaged 25+ pins above his average at shield and achieved an all star spot. I do not know the young man, but that achievement is awesome. Shield can be cruel, it can be kind, but ask any of the kids that have worn their states shirt, and they will all tell you it was a great experience.
These kids bowl because they want (or need) to feel they are good at something. Hopefully they take this feeling and transfer it into life. Life is not fair and can eat you up, or you can be a fighter and try to make life work for you. I know if I was 14 and had a chance to be on a team, and only bowl 2 games, would be a buzz. I would also be motivated to work hard for the next 12 months so I became a bigger part of the team.
President Shield is also not for everyone. It can make 200 avg bowlers shoot 135, and make the 145 bowler avg 190. It depends on the person. Byron Linn comes to mind from Northern. He averaged 25+ pins above his average at shield and achieved an all star spot. I do not know the young man, but that achievement is awesome. Shield can be cruel, it can be kind, but ask any of the kids that have worn their states shirt, and they will all tell you it was a great experience.
Ice
Member
Just a thought but remember the thread a while back where it was discussed about the possibility of having all Rep teams (De Veer, President Shield, Rachuig) funded by means of a small annual levy on all league bowlers in that State? Does that not remove this argument, with the financial outlay of the parents being removed? Surely nobody would have a valid reason to gripe if they went away to represent and didn't get many games if the trip was financed or mostly financed!
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
Ice said:
Absolutely. I think I was one of those that was pushing for the levy.
WHOOPS !!! Better stick to the topic.
That is a great idea, but try to float that one by the centre owners and management. They would have a cow or 6. Their arguement would be that 120,000 league bowlers bowl every week, and out of that number, 600 approx. would be classified as 'elite', or rep level.
However saying that, if TBAL reads this thread, this would be a great inititive to pitch to AMF and the independant proprietors. Anything to promote this sport has got to be a good thing. This levy might also help with a national schools challenge that could happen at the junior nationals. I think it is great that people are thinking about how to make things better instead of breaking things down, and I am all for it. I am sure Roy and Alex and the likes would see this as constructive.
Everyone that has bowled for De Veer, Rachuig, and Shield should be extremely proud, they are great achievements, and a manner to keep the costs down would draw even more people to that level of the sport. Perhaps your ideas, and several other good ideas should be started in a new thread and forwarded on to the powers that be. I mean bowling centres would have a hard time operating with no people in them, and everyone is keen to explore how we can increase the league levels, which in turn feeds the rep teams.
Just my opinions.
However saying that, if TBAL reads this thread, this would be a great inititive to pitch to AMF and the independant proprietors. Anything to promote this sport has got to be a good thing. This levy might also help with a national schools challenge that could happen at the junior nationals. I think it is great that people are thinking about how to make things better instead of breaking things down, and I am all for it. I am sure Roy and Alex and the likes would see this as constructive.
Everyone that has bowled for De Veer, Rachuig, and Shield should be extremely proud, they are great achievements, and a manner to keep the costs down would draw even more people to that level of the sport. Perhaps your ideas, and several other good ideas should be started in a new thread and forwarded on to the powers that be. I mean bowling centres would have a hard time operating with no people in them, and everyone is keen to explore how we can increase the league levels, which in turn feeds the rep teams.
Just my opinions.
The Spanner
Tenpin's Jamie Lyon
Rig said:
A lot of those 120000 people would be able to roll off for De Veer, potentially increasing the 600 rep level classification to 100000 potential candidates.
Again ... sorry to get off the subject.
Potter
lost
This has been a very LONG LONg argument & I think every year there must be this type of argument after Shield because I remember it from last year.
I totally agree with Rig - he has it right - we are all proud to be representing our State -& bowling Shield is the best experience ever. Rig metioned Northern & Byron & he was right there as well - Byron has learned a whole lot since Northern roll-offs last year - he has improved out of sight & came through unbelievably at Nationals - he was awsome- so was Taya Reggars - one of our drafts - she was there to bowl her best and achieved!! Others who have more experience & higher averages just couldn't seem to pull it all together - but it is difficult to forsee who will be good on the day and on the condition and under pressure- so we have a team of 7 players while only 5 bowl each game. That is the game & anyone who isn't bowling well or handling the condition is usually happy to sit out for the sake of the team.
I totally agree with Rig - he has it right - we are all proud to be representing our State -& bowling Shield is the best experience ever. Rig metioned Northern & Byron & he was right there as well - Byron has learned a whole lot since Northern roll-offs last year - he has improved out of sight & came through unbelievably at Nationals - he was awsome- so was Taya Reggars - one of our drafts - she was there to bowl her best and achieved!! Others who have more experience & higher averages just couldn't seem to pull it all together - but it is difficult to forsee who will be good on the day and on the condition and under pressure- so we have a team of 7 players while only 5 bowl each game. That is the game & anyone who isn't bowling well or handling the condition is usually happy to sit out for the sake of the team.
Ice
Member
[/QUOTE] The States would love to help. The trouble is the States don't get one brass razoo from the National Body. Unlike other Sports that have a proper membership structure.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I realise that Andrew. That is precisely why bowlers need to get together with their State organisation and work together towards improving things for the advancement of the sport. Nobody is suggesting State organisations find money to fund these teams from whatever little funds they already have, bowlers as a whole need to put their hands in their pockets to help their State organisation.
Yes, I realise that Andrew. That is precisely why bowlers need to get together with their State organisation and work together towards improving things for the advancement of the sport. Nobody is suggesting State organisations find money to fund these teams from whatever little funds they already have, bowlers as a whole need to put their hands in their pockets to help their State organisation.
Dennis hit it right on the head!!! I will say it again that President's Shield is NOT about individual performances. It is about a team!!! So introducing a minimum games takes the emphasis off the team and places on the individual does it not?? And that's NOT what this competition is about!!! I don't know if you people proposing these minimum game changes have had that much experience in Shield but whether you're off the lanes or on them you still are apart of the team and have a job to do in supporting the team. The team that does that the best wins!!! Always does always will!!! Shield is fine the way it is because whether you bowl 18 games or 2 you are still involved with the atmosphere of the event and you have the pride that goes with representing your state/territory/zone!! And if that's not enough I don't know what is!! I tell you now anyone that's been to Shield would go just for the atmosphere and being able to represent their state, they don't care how many games they bowl!!! It will happen again next year, people will get less games than others, but they know that next year it will be them who will be in the line-up while someone else will be supporting the team not bowling very many games. Thats life, life's not fair so get over it!!! If people want to whinge about how many games they get they don't deserve to be at Shield because they are not their for the right reasons. Shield is about the team, if your not in it for the team then I suggest you go enter an individual tournament, because that seems like your place. This leads me to suggest that for a better President's Shield it would be better to involve only those bowlers willing to bowl for a team, not just for themselves!!! I think some still haven't grasped the idea of a team!!!
Just a thought
Dion A
P.S Hamish and to others that may still be confused I must stress again that the 2 SA boys are over the moon with their medal and the whole experience and will be back next year. And yes I know this topic is not about them to all the clowns who would like to say so!!!
Just a thought
Dion A
P.S Hamish and to others that may still be confused I must stress again that the 2 SA boys are over the moon with their medal and the whole experience and will be back next year. And yes I know this topic is not about them to all the clowns who would like to say so!!!
Ice
Member
Well said Dion! I think you hit the nail right on the head and I agree with you on the following points:
Some people are more individual bowlers and there is nothing wrong with that, but to be a part of an Inter-city or State team your heart has to be in it for the team and not yourself.
Some people are more individual bowlers and there is nothing wrong with that, but to be a part of an Inter-city or State team your heart has to be in it for the team and not yourself.
