How much would bowling a 300 game mean to you?

[tonx]

Sport bowling can still be utilised as an effective type of league play. Oztenpin Epping have a fantastic sports singles league which utilises exactly the same equipment that is used on the PBA tour, including oil machines, patterns, a premium lane surface and state of the art GSX pin setters.

The league forces the bowler to throw the ball well. It makes the bowler execute.

We have bowlers ranging from 150 average, right up to over 200, and everyone has a great time, because of the following reasons,
NONE of which can be obtained on a Typical House Shot:

They are AWARE of the challenge they face.
They are EDUCATED about the preffered parts of the lane to play.
They KNOW when they have thrown a great game, they have executed well.
They have EARNED the series they have bowled that night.
They LEARN that single pin spares are easier to shoot at than multiple pin spares.
They FEEL when they have thrown a shot that is slightly off target, and make the appropriate adjustments.
They are PROUD of their achievements in the league.
They can set GOALS each week to achieve.
They IDENTIFY weaknesses in their game, line up and laneplay.
They are able to RESPECT the game at the most pure level available today.
They CARE whether or not they make a good shot.
They are AWARDED and CONGRATULATED for their quality bowling by their peers

And most of all,

They ENJOY bowling when they are treated as athletes.

I don't think I could possibly enjoy the sport as much as I do without bowling in a sports league.

 

[Dozza]

Wayne, I'd like for you to get over it!
Rob has and always will be one of the most valuable proprietors/managers in this business and his centre is one to be admired. So to insult his integrity like that is a shame but your style.
You might want to try working in a bowling centre and try to be in touch with the real bowlers out there. I'm a listener and I listen and speak to most of the nearly 1000 league bowlers at my centre aswell as well as the many bowlers I come in to contact with from all over Australia.
The aim for most centres is to please the customer and nurture those that want to excel in the sport.
Natural progression is what its called, like moving from the horse and cart to the car. Its all in the way you handle progression. I can read history books if I want to and I do from time to time.
The world is progressing so lets move forward and reminiscing is great but lets not dwell on the past.
The term 'different courses for different horses' comes to mind and that's the beauty of Sports Conditioned Tournaments/Leagues. People can choose.

Doriana Porto

 

[cjallstar]

At the end of day it comes done to the indvidual person I havent bowled for a while but when i threw my first and only 300 it takes some skill concentration and (luck)which i had a lot of on the day. If centers are cheaping the experince its a sorry thing too see
but lets not detract from the achivement the individual has just performed !!

DUST IT OFF TURN IT SIDEWAYS AND SHOVE IT STRAIGHT DOWN THE LANE


Cam Phillips

 

[GoTheCell]

So let me get this right Wayne and see if we can actually agree on something.

"The proprietors / managers are the ones who ultimately decide whether or not the bowlers get a free ride to the pocket." You are saying that the high games being thrown are due to proprietors handing them out with easy conditions?

"Do not place the blame on the manufacturers. Yes, the balls are one of the culprits. Yes, the oiling machines are a tool with which you CAN lay down that easy shot." You are also saying that proprietors deliberately lay down an easy shot to get people to bowl a 300 and that the balls make it even easier?

"But the bottom line is.....you have the final say. Do you want the 'sport' cheapened or do want some integrity in the sport?" You think that the fact that the sport is evolving takes away from the integrity of the sport?

Will be interesting to see your public reply to this one. I think they are very interesting questions considering you are "Candidate for TBA Chairperson".

 

[Jase]

The Sport has a lot of other ****en issues that need to be sorted and discussed before worrying about how many 300’s are bowled every week day…

 

[tonx]

I realise the previous question was directed at someone, but I would like to answer the question as well.

Statement #1: "The proprietors / managers are the ones who ultimately decide whether or not the bowlers get a free ride to the pocket." You are saying that the high games being thrown are due to proprietors handing them out with easy conditions?

I agree 100% with this statement. The people that run the centre ultimately decide the league play pattern, and are directly responsible for the ease, or difficulty of play.

Statement #2: "Do not place the blame on the manufacturers. Yes, the balls are one of the culprits. Yes, the oiling machines are a tool with which you CAN lay down that easy shot." You are also saying that proprietors deliberately lay down an easy shot to get people to bowl a 300 and that the balls make it even easier?

I completely agree with this statement also. For the same reasons as statement #1

"But the bottom line is.....you have the final say. Do you want the 'sport' cheapened or do want some integrity in the sport?" You think that the fact that the sport is evolving takes away from the integrity of the sport?

Everything evolves, no denying that. In Golf the balls and clubs are amazing. What courses AREN'T doing, is making par 5's that can be reached in 1 medium powered drive. What bowling centres ARE doing, is something similar to that scenario.

By doing that, they take away the advantage that a bowler gains by working with coaches, expert ball drillers, as well as hundreds and hundreds of practise games throughout the year, and brings the poor release, poor direction, no practise once a week bowler up to their level.

Although Wayne has a "unique" way of describing the problem, the fact is, he is stating the truth on all levels.

 

[philby]

Gee i dont read a post for a day or 2 and you guys go nuts at each other.
I think everybody is missing the point. When you open a business the whole point of running that business is to make money. Its why we all work. If you are going to run a bowl and the house average is 170. Then a bowl opens down the road with a house average of 190 i wonder were everybody is going to bowl. There is 2 or 3 distinct issues here.
Do you ditch the leagues so scoring is high and everybody has a great time yes of course you do because its your bread and butter.
Do you ditch the tornements to allow high scoring. Again of course you do because people will want to bowl in your torrnement. I know ive bowled in a lot of seniors events and average 175 and won and realized how hard it was. Other times ive averages 206 and not cashed. Did i have fun both times of course i did.
Do you put down a tough pattern to make everybody acountable for there shot and ball selection. Of course you do.
As long as everybody is accountable for what they are doing there is room in our great sport for all 3. Its simply a matter of perception.
If i bowl a 300 at Keon Park on Monday night will i be not as happy as i would be if i bowled it at Altona on Sunday. I'm still gunna be happy either way but i know which is tougher. Do i care what anybody else thinks. Not a chance of me not letting out the loudest yell you are ever likely to hear.
Sorry bout the rambling but my point is
There is a place for all types of patterns and scoring conditions. It is a business and a sport. If the business doesn't thrive the sport dies simple as that. So of course proprietors are going to make scoring easier in there houses because it generates income end of story.
Phil
ps and please don't let me stop you guys slinging S... at each other it makes for great reading lol

 

[wchester]

So let me get this right Wayne and see if we can actually agree on something.
"The proprietors / managers are the ones who ultimately decide whether or not the bowlers get a free ride to the pocket." You are saying that the high games being thrown are due to proprietors handing them out with easy conditions?

The straight answer is yes. or maybe you think a ghost comes into the bowl late at night and changes the setting on the Kegel machines.


"Do not place the blame on the manufacturers. Yes, the balls are one of the culprits. Yes, the oiling machines are a tool with which you CAN lay down that easy shot." You are also saying that proprietors deliberately lay down an easy shot to get people to bowl a 300 and that the balls make it even easier?

Many(not all) proprietors lay down an easy shot because they believe that's what their league bowlers want. They are not willing to take a stand for integrity's sake, for fear of losing business. That is why I feel that it is up to the ruling body to take a firm stance on reigning in the outrageous scoring pace that permeates the sport today. I've only been in Australia since 1999, so i don't know all the details of what happened prior to that date. But I can tell you with certainty that in the United States prior to this outbreak of high scores being sanctioned en masse, a rep from the local association would come in to check the lanes after an honor score was bowled. It was the results of this report that was sent to the ABC Headquarters ,that would ultimately determine whether or not the score was awarded sancioning approval. i know of many instances where a 300 game got turned down by the ABC and as you can imagine, it was the proprietor who felt the wrath of the disappointed bowler. We need to return to a stystem of checks and balances. Someone has to be accountable. What we have now is nothing more than a free for all, and it's killing the sport.


"But the bottom line is.....you have the final say. Do you want the 'sport' cheapened or do want some integrity in the sport?" You think that the fact that the sport is evolving takes away from the integrity of the sport?

In one word YES.

Will be interesting to see your public reply to this one. I think they are very interesting questions considering you are "Candidate for TBA Chairperson".

Now maybe you'd like to answer the questions yourself, so I can see what you believe is the truth.

 

[jason_doust]

I made an assumption.......... isnt that what you have been doing to everyone else regarding their posts?
"So what do people do after 300 if 300 is their aim? Often, once they've bowled one. They quit a few months later. I've seen it before." I would like to know how often. This might have happened once or twice but I think you might be lying a little there.

That bold bit goes beyond assumption. I'm always careful with what I put in writing.

I too would be interested in reading an emotionally neutral, non personal, rational response to Wayne's request for what you see as the answer to your questions to him. Then perhaps we can stick to the issues.

 

[GoTheCell]

Lets number these for easy reference.

1. You really need to give proprietors more credit. They do what is right for their business, which in turn is what is right for the sport, not what is right for any individual bowler. You are almost inferring that the proprietors are cheating by deliberately putting down easy patterns to get sanctioned 300 games in their centres. Lets face it - more bowlers and happy bowlers is only good.

2. Isn't what the bowlers want the thing that we are after in our sport to encourage more bowlers? I, for one, would rather a sport where the participants were kept happy and the sport thrived as opposed to a sport where the red tape and deliberate holding back of progress stunted it's growth.

3. Everything evolves and those who don't evolve with it get left behind. Whether you like it or not it is a fact of life. This one worries me a bit in relation to your "candidate for TBA chairperson" thing. Bowling has to evolve to survive and yet you say stuff like that in here.

The fact is that balls, oiling machines and lanes have evolved and a 300 is easier to bowl. That doesnt take away from the achievement of a "perfect game" or the fact that the person who bowled it should be happy about it.

I'll say it yet again - start promoting the achievements in our sport instead of taking the gloss off them with your unnecessary remarks about progress.

 

[Jez]

The Sport has a lot of other ****en issues that need to be sorted and discussed before worrying about how many 300’s are bowled every week day…

Couldn't agree more.

 

[tenpinyo]

1. You really need to give proprietors more credit. They do what is right for their business, which in turn is what is right for the sport, not what is right for any individual bowler. You are almost inferring that the proprietors are cheating by deliberately putting down easy patterns to get sanctioned 300 games in their centres. Lets face it - more bowlers and happy bowlers is only good.

Putting a diff spin on this whole topic...are we more worried about the amount of 300s being shown or the fact that people are averaging more than their skill level allows...ie people shooting 210+ave in league only to shoot 170 ave in a tourny

my point is i have witnessed first hand where bowlers are given a slightly challenging condition to only whinge and whine about how hard it is and then only want to bowl on patterns that allow for the easy shot into the pocket...

so wat is the real problem at hand...people shootin too many 300s or the bowlers who whinge about the tough conditions and then the bowling alley laying the 'ditch' which allows for the 300s?

 

[GoTheCell]

I don't see an issue with people averaging high. They will soon know (as you have stated) that they need more ability to bowl on difficult patterns/conditions. That is something that comes with experience/practice.

The problem (as I have said all along) is people degrading high games (especially 300's) when for many it is the pinnacle of their bowling career and they deserve all the accolades, regardless of where it was bowled and what the conditions were like.

Lets promote achievements instead of brushing them away like they mean nothing.

 

[wchester]

GoTheCell (Gary)

You side stepped the questions...
I answered honestly. Now it's your turn.

And while were being honest, please don't infer that I said there was any form of cheating going on. It's all within the boundaries of the rules. I only think the rules should be tightened.

 

[GoTheCell]

So let me get this right Wayne and see if we can actually agree on something.

"The proprietors / managers are the ones who ultimately decide whether or not the bowlers get a free ride to the pocket." You are saying that the high games being thrown are due to proprietors handing them out with easy conditions? I say that our proprietors do a great job of putting down a fair condition. They do not deliberately set the lanes up to have 300's bowled in their centres and do not deserve your comments suggesting they do. Sure it has become easier but in no way would I blame the proprietors - it's called progress.

"Do not place the blame on the manufacturers. Yes, the balls are one of the culprits. Yes, the oiling machines are a tool with which you CAN lay down that easy shot." You are also saying that proprietors deliberately lay down an easy shot to get people to bowl a 300 and that the balls make it even easier? Just because the ability is there to lay an easy shot does not mean it is common place. Sure some centres are easier than others and I am sure that like me, you have had a hard time at some centres (hopefully when you come to Mildura for Emerson). Sure the balls have made things a little easier. This does not and should not in any way lessen the sense of achievement when someone bowls a 300 game for the first time.

"But the bottom line is.....you have the final say. Do you want the 'sport' cheapened or do want some integrity in the sport?" You think that the fact that the sport is evolving takes away from the integrity of the sport? The sport evolving is a good thing. It means we are still alive and kicking. A stagnant sport would be no good to anyone. As for integrity, the good bowlers will rise to the top regardless of what condition they bowl on. There is no lack of integrity in achieving something.

You know, for someone who is "candidate for TBA chairperson" you seem to miss the point entirely. You have offered nothing in your posts other than to belittle the achievements of our members. I received a private message from a proprietor saying the same (an NO, I will not name him/her - they can do that themselves if they wish). A few little extracts though....

"I have xxxxx league bowlers here who I treasure and nurture. I would love for them all to bowl a 300 game one day but it just won't happen. You see about 95% of them just come to bowl for fun. They don't complain, unless there coffee is cold"

I thought this thread would have had people saying stuff like 'I would love to bowl a 300' or 'my 1st was so scarey','it never gets easier and the 5th was just as exciting'. Stuff like that.
But some people have been bowling or talking bowling for way too long and they've forgotten it should be both challenging and fun.

He upsets me when he blames centres/proprietors, but fails to mention that if it wasn't for them there would be no sport.

I do apologise to the person who sent me that message if putting bits of it in here is an issue.

All I have said all along is we should encourage our bowlers instead of making a mockery of their achievements with posts like you and others have been doing. You can try and twist this all you want.

Mock the bowlers' achievements vs encourage them........ Is that so difficult a choice? Has the poll not spoken for itself?

 

[BELMO]

Something we are all forgetting.

in 1950 how many people threw the ball the way we do now???

Bowling a 300 is occurring more frequent these days, no one can deny that fact. But 'these days' people are bowling with more power than ever.

I can guarantee you that if we all threw the ball up 15 and put 5 revs on the ball, (like they did 40 years ago) the number of 300's would drop some what!

I have 31 300's. I have bowled them in over 10 countries (some on TV) and every one i have bowled, especially my first, my legs wobble!

And let me be the first to say, that just because the lanes may be helping you to attain a 300, does not change the fact YOU and only YOU have to throw the ball 12 times and strike.

I have bowled 31 300's but maybe 310,000 games on easy patterns.......

It is easier, but NOT EASY!!!!!!!

Jason

 

[jason_doust]

Jason,
Fair point. But until harder (urethane and synthetic) lane surfaces, the big hook ball didn't work. (Trust me - I tried... It was a bad look on lacquer.) Chris Batson threw the biggest competitive ball in the country - by a long way. Today's balls also have a lower radius of gyration and higher coefficient of restitution, both of which lead to greater impact as well as amazing friction, which can lead to great reductions in deflection.

I have no issue with easy lanes, but we are starting to see super ditches that churn out 300's (multiple) weekly owing to extreme increases in friction right of 10 board. It's crazy. We can make it enjoyable without being nuts. As you know, you have to wait to bowl in a major to be able to play right of 10 (if you can then), as many houses just don't oil there any more.

You beat me to the punch on bowling 300. It's always nerve wracking and the reason I keep saying 300 should be celebrated. It's a test of one's mettle and very exciting.

Gary,
Being a centre proprietor is no bed of roses and my heart goes out to them being stuck in the middle like this, but yet again you have side stepped answering the questions you feel so confident in asking others. And please refrain from personal insults. So far you have accused people of not comprehending, being untruthful and now twisting your words.

For the third time, nobody has mocked, denigrated (or any other exaggerated word you choose) anyone's achievements. Don't confuse your emotional reaction with the words written on the screen. But to deny that some centres are not remarkably easier than others is to put one's head in the sand. Maybe your centre is really tough and if that's your experience, you'd be justified in your frustration. I don't know. I've never bowled there. A lot of country houses are pretty tricky. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

The poll is fundamentally flawed. It's emotionally loaded like some Today Tonight thing and basically asks;

"Are you a good bloke who supports and drinks with his mates?"
or
"Are you a self righteous jerk who looks down on everyone?"
(You ask if "anyone" can bowl a 300.)

It's like confusing a referendum with reasoned debate. Two choices versus the whole gamut. And when it's loaded, of course it's going to lead people to a conclusion without further thought! That's what I meant by "leading question" and "statistically invalid". It's prejudiced. The outcome is pre-judged.

There's a lot of websites out there that can help you build an unbiased set of questions that take in more than one small facet of the argument. If you really want definitive answers, you have to ask the right questions. But if you're happy pushing this barrow, knock yourself out.

 

[RobbieB]

The most amusing part of this thread is that everyone sems to think the two poll choices are mutually exclusive. Go have another look, and think about it.

 

[jason_doust]

You're right as usual Rob, but my post was already getting too long.

 

[Nebster]

Out of curiosity, and by no mean any offence intended to Jason and Wayne...but would you guys carry on with the things you have been saying to someone who threw a 300 game at, i don't know, the U.S. Open maybe??? I mean you can't say that the lanes are easy there, are they??? There's no funneling, as Wayne put it as it only takes 1 board difference between a strike and either a low pocket shot or high head pin split. Even the best balls in the world are very little use there.