Discuss: How much skill and luck are involved in bowling a 300?
- Thread starter bomber_comfort
- Start date
Toon
OWN IT!
Thanks Mr Chester,
I think thats perfect proof of the OP.
261 average, 120 Perfect Games. Yet only 1 PBA National win.
Personally, I think it has come as far as bowling 300 is a bit of a so what in some centres.
I bowled my first 300 in a centre where you had to work for your scores, though that centre is now a certified ditch.
When I bowled mine, there had been 3 300's bowled in that centre in 4 years. Including mine, 6 months later, new Kegel, resurface etc.
Once the lanes were finished, 6 300's in 2 months.
I had an achievement that at the time was the biggest achievement I had ever accomplished, nowadays, there seems to be one thrown daily.
Hate to be that guy, but I see it now in some centres to 20% skill, 20% luck, 60% lane pattern.
I apologize to those who have bowled 300s in tough centres and have deserved the accolades but some centres are ruining it for everyone.
Instead of bowling 12 perfect shots, it seems some places its just the guy that can carry the best.
I think thats perfect proof of the OP.
261 average, 120 Perfect Games. Yet only 1 PBA National win.
Personally, I think it has come as far as bowling 300 is a bit of a so what in some centres.
I bowled my first 300 in a centre where you had to work for your scores, though that centre is now a certified ditch.
When I bowled mine, there had been 3 300's bowled in that centre in 4 years. Including mine, 6 months later, new Kegel, resurface etc.
Once the lanes were finished, 6 300's in 2 months.
I had an achievement that at the time was the biggest achievement I had ever accomplished, nowadays, there seems to be one thrown daily.
Hate to be that guy, but I see it now in some centres to 20% skill, 20% luck, 60% lane pattern.
I apologize to those who have bowled 300s in tough centres and have deserved the accolades but some centres are ruining it for everyone.
Instead of bowling 12 perfect shots, it seems some places its just the guy that can carry the best.
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
you might need to be more specific.....a perfect shot now era or pre reactive & dynamic weight block era.
I am sure it has changed over the years.
Rob
Michael Little
Active Member
Rob,
The perfect shot is such a subjective thing from balls used, eras bowled, alley equipment, lane conditions, luck, personal feel of release, approach and delivery.
Balls make it very easy for bowlers nowadays to potentially string more strikes together, inflating their scores usually well over ability, but that is pretty much a given today. Different eras, can be discussed much like different eras in any sport. Lane conditions usually go hand in hand with ball technology. I regardless of how much some of this stuff gives you a leg up today over yesteryears game, to me personally, the perfect shot comes down to everything I do from the moment I pick the ball up, until it hits the pins. It isn't possible to do everything perfect everytime, but if I was to be honest I would say I would be lucky to bowl one absolutely perfect shot per game, probably 7-8 shots that would fall into the good category, where some things didnt quite happen right and probably 1-2 shots where the shot quality was poor in a fair few areas. That is pretty average across the board for me.
Mixed in with skill and good delivery of the ball, I think luck will always play a fairly large part in a 300 game, regardless of how well a ball is thrown, there are never any guarantees you will strike. I see it every night in league the amount of bowlers who cannot believe they haven't carried just because they hit the pocket. Instant gratification again.
jimcross
Active Member
It goes something like this :- The ball enters the pocket at an angle of 28 degrees, and with it's centre on the 14 board, contacts the centre of the 1 Pin ( as measured by a straight line through the centres of the 7 - 4 - & 2 pins).
This takes out the 1, 2, 4, & 7 pins.
Moving forward, whilst deflecting right off the 1 pin, it contacts the centre of the 3 pin ( as measured through the centres of the 6 & 10 pin, and takes out the 3, 6, & 10 pins.
Moving forward with slight deflection left, it takes out the 5 pin, which takes out the 8 pin.
Moving forward with slight deflection right off the 5 pin, the ball takes out the remaining 9 pin.
There, Wasn't that simple ? -- Woops, I forgot, that's what a 16lb, pre-reactive did. It would be very different for, say, a 14 or 12 lb ball, as the deflections would be different, and we haven't even got to a fancy weight block yet -- or a reactive coverstock!
Maybe there's no such thing as a 'perfect' shot ?
Or, then again, maybe every strike is perfect - evidenced by all ten pins being knocked down?
If it was imperfect there would be some left ?
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Thats my point Jim, very subjective, what if i got the result above 'perfectly' but fell off my shot and balance was cr@p at the foul line, still perfect or just a perfect result?
wchester
Bowling Tragic
That would not qualify as either..I'd say it was JUST LUCK!
BTW JIMCROSS..28 DEGREES??? LOL
jimcross
Active Member
Yes, that could be wrong. The angle ( degrees ) I'm talking about is that existing between a line straight diwn the middle of the lane, through the centre of the headpin and a line from the right passing through the space between the 1 and 3 pins, intersecting the centre line. Still wrong ?
WOOPS - the bit which is wrong for sure is the board, It's the 17, NOT the 14 !!
My excuse is --- Dinner was served !!!!
WOOPS - the bit which is wrong for sure is the board, It's the 17, NOT the 14 !!
My excuse is --- Dinner was served !!!!
Interesting topic , Im surprised John Velo didnt put it up !!
Early days was different to today, Full stop....
Today the ball and lane conditions do sooooo much for the bowler it makes way too easy to shoot 300 games, NOT perfect games !!!
We used to say, In the old days, the perfect shot was 10 pins in the pit
There are a lot more exciting strike results today to watch , so I guess its a matter of personal choice
Early days was different to today, Full stop....
Today the ball and lane conditions do sooooo much for the bowler it makes way too easy to shoot 300 games, NOT perfect games !!!
We used to say, In the old days, the perfect shot was 10 pins in the pit
There are a lot more exciting strike results today to watch , so I guess its a matter of personal choice
Hey Guys,
My first 300, two weeks ago was all good, moved when I needed to and threw a good game all solid.
Tonight I bowled my second 300, with three brookie on lane 17, so it was all luck. The only tough things was that dad was watching. All I could hear was you missed by two Bl**dy boards again.
My first 300, two weeks ago was all good, moved when I needed to and threw a good game all solid.
Tonight I bowled my second 300, with three brookie on lane 17, so it was all luck. The only tough things was that dad was watching. All I could hear was you missed by two Bl**dy boards again.
DIECAST NUT
Member
What about the comparision of a 300 game to a back to back 300s????
Michael Little
Active Member
I would say perfect result, the aim each frame is to knock 10 pins down, but I see it a million times, poor execution, delivery etc, carries and knock pins over well, great execution and delivery sometimes results in not achieving all 10.
And Jim is right, there are various perfect angles dependant which particular make of ball you use.
Congrats John on your 300, now you mentioned it was lucky, how far off were those 3 balls in not being delivered right, before you adjusted something, and because you seem like an honest person, without taking away from your achievement, what percentages would you now break this down into, luck%, skill%, good lanes%, ball% etc etc?
Skill and luck in bowling a 300... I believe you need both. As John has stated, had had a few lucky shots and I'm guessing he missed his mark by a fair bit. Having said that, congrats on your most recent achievement John. But I think that some centres are taking the skill side out of the equation by giving bowlers too much margin for error. On the flip side to this there are centres that lay fair patterns for their league bowlers which strangely enough require a lot more accuracy and shot execution.
I've bowled some really good games technically this year and managed to score well but not get me close to the perfect score but one game where I felt like I didn't bowl well but still managed to carry the front 11 at the AO.
I've bowled some really good games technically this year and managed to score well but not get me close to the perfect score but one game where I felt like I didn't bowl well but still managed to carry the front 11 at the AO.
Hey Michael,
I look at it this way. When the shot goes a little high, I ask, did it feel good or was it the lane.
Tonight I didn't ask myself that question because I knew five should not have carried. If you just looked at the delivery and the ball on the lane I would say that four different people bowled the 300. Chicken wings and all. It was a little ordinary, but is makes up for the three good 278's bowled a few months earlier.
I also tried a timing change and moved to a five step approach, my normal shot is four step. So the hole game felt odd. Add to that the medication for Vertigo this week and yeah, lucky.
I don't like to kid myself, because if you do, well that aint bowling and the road up is actually down hill.
I look at it this way. When the shot goes a little high, I ask, did it feel good or was it the lane.
Tonight I didn't ask myself that question because I knew five should not have carried. If you just looked at the delivery and the ball on the lane I would say that four different people bowled the 300. Chicken wings and all. It was a little ordinary, but is makes up for the three good 278's bowled a few months earlier.
I also tried a timing change and moved to a five step approach, my normal shot is four step. So the hole game felt odd. Add to that the medication for Vertigo this week and yeah, lucky.
I don't like to kid myself, because if you do, well that aint bowling and the road up is actually down hill.
Gatsby
a.k.a Bary Glack
Your Dad watched you bowl a 300 --- might not have been 12 perfect shots -- but in years to come you might look back on that as being pretty special (I am assuming it has not happened many times before). I would have loved to have had the special people in my life see me bowl 300. Congrats John.
Thanks Gary,
Both 300's where bowled in front of family and super special. But the one in front of dad lucky or not was definitely special and nervous, my hands were shaking. Nice to have him watch me do it this time instead of the other way around.
Like I always say, at the end of the day, an X is an X and count the same.
To break down Michael’s question "what percentages would you now break this down into, luck%, skill%, good lanes%, ball% etc etc?"
Ball not so much, I used a leverage drilled ball that goes pretty straight.
Lanes, again not so much as everybody on the pair kind a bowled about the same.
Skill, tonight, for me not my best night.
Luck, yeah 50%
With the rest making up the last 50%.
Two weeks earlier I would have said my shot was 100% better than tonight, but 70% lanes, I went 25 out of my last 27 shots. Between the guys on the lane on that night there should have been 3 bowled except for luck that time.
Definitely if you are accurate, there is less luck needed.
Both 300's where bowled in front of family and super special. But the one in front of dad lucky or not was definitely special and nervous, my hands were shaking. Nice to have him watch me do it this time instead of the other way around.
Like I always say, at the end of the day, an X is an X and count the same.
To break down Michael’s question "what percentages would you now break this down into, luck%, skill%, good lanes%, ball% etc etc?"
Ball not so much, I used a leverage drilled ball that goes pretty straight.
Lanes, again not so much as everybody on the pair kind a bowled about the same.
Skill, tonight, for me not my best night.
Luck, yeah 50%
With the rest making up the last 50%.
Two weeks earlier I would have said my shot was 100% better than tonight, but 70% lanes, I went 25 out of my last 27 shots. Between the guys on the lane on that night there should have been 3 bowled except for luck that time.
Definitely if you are accurate, there is less luck needed.
