rychenroller
Active Member
AdrianS said:
Yep Shelts 189, but not by much
Ray is 194, and Russell is 190.05 
How Many 300's has your Centre Had
- Thread starter bowlrig
- Start date
Yep Shelts 189, but not by much
Ray is 194, and Russell is 190.05 
Sinful Sinister
Member
Thought l would put a tally up for Bankstown 28 l think double check though
ok wasn't going to post on this one but just can't help myself
i think people are looking at it the wrong way , most people these days are bowling at the easier centres because of the MONEY BOARDS take away the money boards and watch the bowlers leave even if the condition is easy !!!!!!!!! who cares if u can ave 210+ if u can't win any money doing it.......
i think people are looking at it the wrong way , most people these days are bowling at the easier centres because of the MONEY BOARDS take away the money boards and watch the bowlers leave even if the condition is easy !!!!!!!!! who cares if u can ave 210+ if u can't win any money doing it.......
M
milton
I dont agree Jeff, bowlers will always travel to bowl on an easier condition. They have in the past 17 years that I have worked in the industry.
Well I know we got off the subject of 300 games,but they are very much related to lane conditions.The spate of 300's shot since 1990 could only be achieved by better lane conditioning machines.What I'm saying it's only since 1990 have the lanes been conditioned properly,the older equipment promised but could'nt deliver.The best piece of lane equipment up to 1990 was the Key lane stripper,because it cleaned evenly,later spray and suck strippers could not, they created a reverse block on the backend,hard to score on.
Wchester seems to think we should be making it harder and it's up to the proprietors to fix. The problem is we only just got it right after 40 years of bowling in Australia.This is all the wrongs of the past 30-40 years teaching how to finally set up lanes to thier premium,now were supposed to trick them up so people can't score, I feel for Milton I know how hard it is to please bowlers,I've seen record scores and still they complain.Your doing the right thing mate, the Kegel is the ultimate in lane conditioning this too was produced by all the mistakes of the past being corrected.There is nothing wrong in high scores,and you don't need a WALL to achieve them,a good blend with taper will suit more bowlers to score.
Now to adress some of the comments made in this thread,M.Macca a minimum of three balls there's $1200 a spare ball maybe $130 and for those juniors trying out for Commonwealth Games $200 entry,plus travel, maybe accomadation if not fortunate to be billoted,hmm $1500 plus so far and when they get there conditions that are tricked up,they may as well bowl on the Moon,and as for Wchester if he bowled on the Moon I'm sure his spare game might suffer too,so don't be too harsh to criticise those juniors who had thier spare system thrown out of whack by the tricked up conditions.
Now I can't wait to see Brando win the Newcastle Cup,all that cost of equipment has no meaning to someone who runs thier own pro-shop,I'm sure he comes down with more than three balls.
willey.
Wchester seems to think we should be making it harder and it's up to the proprietors to fix. The problem is we only just got it right after 40 years of bowling in Australia.This is all the wrongs of the past 30-40 years teaching how to finally set up lanes to thier premium,now were supposed to trick them up so people can't score, I feel for Milton I know how hard it is to please bowlers,I've seen record scores and still they complain.Your doing the right thing mate, the Kegel is the ultimate in lane conditioning this too was produced by all the mistakes of the past being corrected.There is nothing wrong in high scores,and you don't need a WALL to achieve them,a good blend with taper will suit more bowlers to score.
Now to adress some of the comments made in this thread,M.Macca a minimum of three balls there's $1200 a spare ball maybe $130 and for those juniors trying out for Commonwealth Games $200 entry,plus travel, maybe accomadation if not fortunate to be billoted,hmm $1500 plus so far and when they get there conditions that are tricked up,they may as well bowl on the Moon,and as for Wchester if he bowled on the Moon I'm sure his spare game might suffer too,so don't be too harsh to criticise those juniors who had thier spare system thrown out of whack by the tricked up conditions.
Now I can't wait to see Brando win the Newcastle Cup,all that cost of equipment has no meaning to someone who runs thier own pro-shop,I'm sure he comes down with more than three balls.
willey.
Andrew S.
Gold Coast
milton said:
I can't agree with that. Maybe the higher average bowlers will travel for the condition but for the vast majority of bowlers other factors come into play.
To look at a local example here on the Coast, Nerang has 27 x 300 games in the few years it has been open and Ashmore has only 3 x 300 games in the 20 years it has been open.
The two Centres are perhaps 10 - 15 minutes drive apart and yet Ashmore would have a far higher lineage than Nerang and probably even higher than most Brisbane Centres. And that's league not just open play.
It is not the intention of this post to compare the two Centres, I simply want to make the point that a high scoring condition isn't always the answer.
micky_macca
Member
willey said:
It really depends what your meaning of "premium" lanes is, theres nothign down in words descrbing what a premium set of conditioned lanes should be like, in my oppinion, a premium condition is one which is fair to bowlers of all styles, but rewards good shots and doesn't allow the strokers to throw rockets up the edge or the crankers to spray the lanes from the inside, but that requires quality shot making.
And don't tell me these guys went out and bought 3 new balls to go down to Bendigo, they accumulate over time, and even then your still DREAMING:
Just taking something from the storm line:
Fear Factor $400
Eraser Pearl Particle $300
Big Hit Pearl $180
Spare Storm $100
TO ME that works out to be just under $1000, bowling is an expensive game mate, it's the ball companies that set those ball prices, not the pro shops.
And I personally cant wait to see Brando come down and win either, and not because he has 6 million balls with every which drilling... BUT because he has put in hard hours on tough shots for years and is not 1 but 3 steps ahead of his competition. Same goes for Jarrod aswell, these guys put the hard hours in to get where they are today.
Later
M
milton
Hi guys
Thake it from me, Milton has had a money board for as long as I can remember. No one would come to Milton to bowl on the old lane condition! ( because it was crap or so everyone told me)
Now that the lanes score higher they want to bowl.
Its not just the money, its now the way the game is. And if you dont believe this - Brisbane now has a total of 5 Kegel oiling machines and one in Toowoomba. All centres trying to compete with good lane conditions so bowlers will bowl in there centre.
I can only speak from what I have seen in the industry. Higher average bowlers ( and this is who we are speaking about) will not go and bowl in a crap scoring centre.
I think this topic has had its time, we all see it in a different way. Some from the bowlers point of view and some from the bowling centre point of view.
Good luck with your topic
Jeff.
Thake it from me, Milton has had a money board for as long as I can remember. No one would come to Milton to bowl on the old lane condition! ( because it was crap or so everyone told me)
Now that the lanes score higher they want to bowl.
Its not just the money, its now the way the game is. And if you dont believe this - Brisbane now has a total of 5 Kegel oiling machines and one in Toowoomba. All centres trying to compete with good lane conditions so bowlers will bowl in there centre.
I can only speak from what I have seen in the industry. Higher average bowlers ( and this is who we are speaking about) will not go and bowl in a crap scoring centre.
I think this topic has had its time, we all see it in a different way. Some from the bowlers point of view and some from the bowling centre point of view.
Good luck with your topic
Jeff.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
milton Jeff..
I'm a bit disappointed that you've failed to answer my post of June 3rd, so I'm repeating part of it here.
The loss of the high average bowlers alone is not reason enough to throw in the towel. Less than 5% of registered Australian bowlers even qualify as high averages. ( 185+ ) With a bit of smart marketing you could recoup that lost revenue. I'm sure you're aware that as a whole, the scratch bowler spends less money per visit that the lower average bowler spends. Less money on food, less money on drinks, and definitely try to spend less money per game on lineage.
How many scratch bowlers do you have in your centre? They CAN be replaced!
The ball is in your court now...I would hope that you see through all the silliness of high scoring and start the revolution.
Wayne
I'm a bit disappointed that you've failed to answer my post of June 3rd, so I'm repeating part of it here.
The loss of the high average bowlers alone is not reason enough to throw in the towel. Less than 5% of registered Australian bowlers even qualify as high averages. ( 185+ ) With a bit of smart marketing you could recoup that lost revenue. I'm sure you're aware that as a whole, the scratch bowler spends less money per visit that the lower average bowler spends. Less money on food, less money on drinks, and definitely try to spend less money per game on lineage.
How many scratch bowlers do you have in your centre? They CAN be replaced!
The ball is in your court now...I would hope that you see through all the silliness of high scoring and start the revolution.
Wayne
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
I have deliberately stayed out of this topic for a while because of the obvious conflict of interest between the "sport" and the "business" of bowling. I believe the only viable solution in the short AND long term is as follows:
Bowling needs different categories of scoring conditions which, in turn, result in different categories of honour scores.
Category 1 - Your "Typical House Shot" (THS) which can be walled up as much as the centre likes (or can achieve). This condition can be put up for normal league play and attracts a Category 1 honour score sanctioning ie, everyone is aware that the condition is set up for high scoring and is recognised as the lowest level of honour score achievement. This caters for the player who likes to come in and see scores and an inflated average.
Category 2 - An edgeboard to edgeboard oiling pattern. A little bit tougher requiring more accuracy. This could be set up for scratch leagues, local association and state championships and be used as a stepping stone up from Category 1. It would attract Category 2 honour score sanctioning and would, by definition be seen as a more significant achievement. This caters for players who have some ambition to compete at a higher level without being thrown to the wolves at Category 3.
Category 3 - Edgeboard to edgeboard with a maximum ratio of, say 2:1 requiring high levels of accuracy and shotmaking ability. A Category 3 honour score would be the highest achievement and one worthy of significant prizemoney/prizes. This would be used at national tournaments, national championships, Rachuig etc andwould be aimed at the players who have the ambition to represent Australia or be competitive at international or even professional level.
This system caters for both the "sport" interests in regaining credibility or honour scores and tournament winners as well as making Australian bowlers more competitive on the world stage and the "business" interests of bowling who need to get bowlers through the doors because they feel they can score in their mid week leagues and still have some fun and socialise as well.
Wayne and Jeff, your comments please fom both the "sport" and business" perspectives andanyone else who thinks this could work. I even welcome criticism or even if you think I am just some left handed dimwit.
Bowling needs different categories of scoring conditions which, in turn, result in different categories of honour scores.
Category 1 - Your "Typical House Shot" (THS) which can be walled up as much as the centre likes (or can achieve). This condition can be put up for normal league play and attracts a Category 1 honour score sanctioning ie, everyone is aware that the condition is set up for high scoring and is recognised as the lowest level of honour score achievement. This caters for the player who likes to come in and see scores and an inflated average.
Category 2 - An edgeboard to edgeboard oiling pattern. A little bit tougher requiring more accuracy. This could be set up for scratch leagues, local association and state championships and be used as a stepping stone up from Category 1. It would attract Category 2 honour score sanctioning and would, by definition be seen as a more significant achievement. This caters for players who have some ambition to compete at a higher level without being thrown to the wolves at Category 3.
Category 3 - Edgeboard to edgeboard with a maximum ratio of, say 2:1 requiring high levels of accuracy and shotmaking ability. A Category 3 honour score would be the highest achievement and one worthy of significant prizemoney/prizes. This would be used at national tournaments, national championships, Rachuig etc andwould be aimed at the players who have the ambition to represent Australia or be competitive at international or even professional level.
This system caters for both the "sport" interests in regaining credibility or honour scores and tournament winners as well as making Australian bowlers more competitive on the world stage and the "business" interests of bowling who need to get bowlers through the doors because they feel they can score in their mid week leagues and still have some fun and socialise as well.
Wayne and Jeff, your comments please fom both the "sport" and business" perspectives andanyone else who thinks this could work. I even welcome criticism or even if you think I am just some left handed dimwit.
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
Wayne,
Brenton,
how would you help the smaller center that does not have a lane machine to put your three seperate conditions down?
Also with that sort of criterea the governing body would have a logistic nightmare trying to keep a check on all the conditions.
But maybe the start of a good idea!!
Rob
and so has so many other sports most even longer.
Brenton,
how would you help the smaller center that does not have a lane machine to put your three seperate conditions down?
Also with that sort of criterea the governing body would have a logistic nightmare trying to keep a check on all the conditions.
But maybe the start of a good idea!!
Rob
i know they were talking about the same problems on the pba site and it was put forward that the governing bodies should look at bringing out a tournament bowling ball. a controlled ball with a basic cover stock and wieght block.
this will work for both league and tournament bowlers the guys who want to bowl in leagues and just shot scores can use any ball they want but can't win money off the money boards, if a bowler is using the new tournament ball then they can win money.
bowlers bowling in open tournaments would have to use a tournament ball and this would stop the arguements about the equipment as everyone would be using the same equipment!!!!!
also works for the ball companies as they now can produce equipment for the league bowlers and also equipment for the tournament bowler. i know the golf companies produce different clubs for the pro's compared to what the week end golfer uses so it should work for the ball companies.
if the controlled ball is something basic it will bring the skill of the bowler out and take away the need to carry a heap of different equipment.
would like to hear what others think.
this will work for both league and tournament bowlers the guys who want to bowl in leagues and just shot scores can use any ball they want but can't win money off the money boards, if a bowler is using the new tournament ball then they can win money.
bowlers bowling in open tournaments would have to use a tournament ball and this would stop the arguements about the equipment as everyone would be using the same equipment!!!!!
also works for the ball companies as they now can produce equipment for the league bowlers and also equipment for the tournament bowler. i know the golf companies produce different clubs for the pro's compared to what the week end golfer uses so it should work for the ball companies.
if the controlled ball is something basic it will bring the skill of the bowler out and take away the need to carry a heap of different equipment.
would like to hear what others think.
Wchester has got it wrong again,without your top bowlers there is nothing for the rest to aspire to.The whole game is EGO driven,and if your top bowlers are complaining about your conditions you can bet your a$$ that the 160-180 bowlers are also going to complain when they don't score, even when they could'nt tell if the lanes even had oil on them.
But he finally hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the resin balls causing the high scores,this is what I have been trying to explain,IT'S NOT THE OIL THAT CREATES HIGH SCORES IT'S WHERE THE OIL AIN'T,that is clean back-ends,you can't score without clean back-ends.The resin balls create angle of entry, so do'es clean back-ends,so I will say it once more, until 1990 there was no clean back-end until the lane conditioners could clean them properly.So if you want to live in the past and make it harder to score just oil the back-end about half a unit should ensure nobody shoots 200 average, than you will need your spare game working.
As for money boards AMF hav'nt had them for years,so in Newcastle they only bowl where it suits thier game.
Finally a Walled shot is no better or worse than a tapered blend,but if you have a wall and no oil at all on the last five boards,as I've seen some centres do, even to the point of putting shims on the outside of thier wicks to make sure no oil can get through,than what you are doing is starting your back-end early,and this is what happened in the USA before the three unit rule was applied.
willey.
But he finally hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the resin balls causing the high scores,this is what I have been trying to explain,IT'S NOT THE OIL THAT CREATES HIGH SCORES IT'S WHERE THE OIL AIN'T,that is clean back-ends,you can't score without clean back-ends.The resin balls create angle of entry, so do'es clean back-ends,so I will say it once more, until 1990 there was no clean back-end until the lane conditioners could clean them properly.So if you want to live in the past and make it harder to score just oil the back-end about half a unit should ensure nobody shoots 200 average, than you will need your spare game working.
As for money boards AMF hav'nt had them for years,so in Newcastle they only bowl where it suits thier game.
Finally a Walled shot is no better or worse than a tapered blend,but if you have a wall and no oil at all on the last five boards,as I've seen some centres do, even to the point of putting shims on the outside of thier wicks to make sure no oil can get through,than what you are doing is starting your back-end early,and this is what happened in the USA before the three unit rule was applied.
willey.
