Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
Stax,
Thats a lot of 300's in WA................
How many of those are yours??????????????????
Thats a lot of 300's in WA................
How many of those are yours??????????????????
How Many 300's has your Centre Had
- Thread starter bowlrig
- Start date
M
milton
wchester tell me!
Where in my post did I say this was a good thing ???
Where in my post did I say this was a good thing ???
M
milton
Wchester
Like it or not high scoring is here and its here to stay.
You try running a bowling centre with crap conditions and low scores these days and lets see how many bowlers you have at the end of the year!
Lets see bowling centre x and z 10 minutes apart from each other, one has great scoring and happy bowlers and is full.
Centre z has bowlers who like a tough condition and go home real happy after bowling there 550 for three games and the centre is not full.
No I dont like it and I think it has changed our game, but if your that concerned give it away. Not to mention how much these high games have cost us through the awards system!
I just think instead of the trill of bowling a 300 game, now bowl 2 300's in a row or bowl a 850 for three. there will always be challenges in this sport and will continue to change.
Jeff Payne.
Like it or not high scoring is here and its here to stay.
You try running a bowling centre with crap conditions and low scores these days and lets see how many bowlers you have at the end of the year!
Lets see bowling centre x and z 10 minutes apart from each other, one has great scoring and happy bowlers and is full.
Centre z has bowlers who like a tough condition and go home real happy after bowling there 550 for three games and the centre is not full.
No I dont like it and I think it has changed our game, but if your that concerned give it away. Not to mention how much these high games have cost us through the awards system!
I just think instead of the trill of bowling a 300 game, now bowl 2 300's in a row or bowl a 850 for three. there will always be challenges in this sport and will continue to change.
Jeff Payne.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Jeff.....and this applies to all the other centre with outrageous scoring conditions.
I agree that's it a tough call to make. Let them score and hopefully your bowlers won't run down the road to the competitor's place. Make them adjust to the conditions and you risk losing their business.
However, and this is somewhat radical thinking on my part...I prefer that we keep bowling a SPORT, not the recreation it is fast becoming to ALL skill levels of bowlers.
What you're really risking by making the condition soft is the attrition of bowlers through disinterest. Your open play ( practice to be more precise) will drop off substantially as the higher average bowlers come to realise that they no longer need to practice their skills. Why should they, when they no longer have to make the corrective speed, rotation, and angle adjustments etc, in order to hit the pocket and strike.
WHY NOT EDUCATE YOUR BOWLERS INSTEAD OF GIVING IN TO THEM.
Be a leader and take a stand against the ridiculously east conditions that are destroying this sport. I'd be willing to come up to Queensland for a couple of weeks and talk to your league bowlers..explain why they should have to earn their scores instead of being given them.
We'll all be better off for it in the end.
I agree that's it a tough call to make. Let them score and hopefully your bowlers won't run down the road to the competitor's place. Make them adjust to the conditions and you risk losing their business.
However, and this is somewhat radical thinking on my part...I prefer that we keep bowling a SPORT, not the recreation it is fast becoming to ALL skill levels of bowlers.
What you're really risking by making the condition soft is the attrition of bowlers through disinterest. Your open play ( practice to be more precise) will drop off substantially as the higher average bowlers come to realise that they no longer need to practice their skills. Why should they, when they no longer have to make the corrective speed, rotation, and angle adjustments etc, in order to hit the pocket and strike.
WHY NOT EDUCATE YOUR BOWLERS INSTEAD OF GIVING IN TO THEM.
Be a leader and take a stand against the ridiculously east conditions that are destroying this sport. I'd be willing to come up to Queensland for a couple of weeks and talk to your league bowlers..explain why they should have to earn their scores instead of being given them.
We'll all be better off for it in the end.
M
milton
I don't disagree with you, but I really dont think one centre out of 100 is going to make a difference, all it would do is ruin your business.
This is the same as when resin bowling balls came out. You no longer needed to practice anymore you just went out and bought yourself a new ball which would add another 10 pins per game.
I continued to use my Century 100 up until 1 year ago and the lane condition was fair (i certainly liked them) but other bowlers didnt. They would travel anything up to 1 hour just so they could maintain a 200+ average in a high scoring house.
Our business was suffering and No one would bowl tournaments. The desicion had to be made and as I said I did'nt really like it but I had to join the others.
This year alone I have had the Rachuig roll off, the Junior roll off, Brisbane area championships and other tounaments that have filled within weeks.
This Kegel machine has made a great deal of business for me.
The sport of bowling has changed - for the better or worse who knows? I do know one thing from a business point of view I like happy bowlers. It will change again. Unfortunately we follow whats happening in the states and Im sure before long they will address the problem and we will follow.
I thought the sports condition might have changed thing and may still well in the future.
Anyway thats my two cents worth. I agree with you wchester but unfortunately I have to run a business and make it work.
Jeff.
This is the same as when resin bowling balls came out. You no longer needed to practice anymore you just went out and bought yourself a new ball which would add another 10 pins per game.
I continued to use my Century 100 up until 1 year ago and the lane condition was fair (i certainly liked them) but other bowlers didnt. They would travel anything up to 1 hour just so they could maintain a 200+ average in a high scoring house.
Our business was suffering and No one would bowl tournaments. The desicion had to be made and as I said I did'nt really like it but I had to join the others.
This year alone I have had the Rachuig roll off, the Junior roll off, Brisbane area championships and other tounaments that have filled within weeks.
This Kegel machine has made a great deal of business for me.
The sport of bowling has changed - for the better or worse who knows? I do know one thing from a business point of view I like happy bowlers. It will change again. Unfortunately we follow whats happening in the states and Im sure before long they will address the problem and we will follow.
I thought the sports condition might have changed thing and may still well in the future.
Anyway thats my two cents worth. I agree with you wchester but unfortunately I have to run a business and make it work.
Jeff.
micky_macca
Member
Wayne im with you on this matter, theres two ways of looking at it, you have your bowlers who enjoy a high scoring game/series what not. They would be much happier to shoot 240 odd and lose than shoot a 170 on a tought shot and win by 20+ pins. Thats your Joe bowler.
Then there is your bowler who wants more than big games, they want more, they want representative bowling, they want to be satisfied that they can compete with the best, on the toughest conditions at the top level with the best bowlers. If were bowling on easy conditions, sure 230+ averages and honour scores coming out of your ears are all fun and dandy, you top qualify for your team and then go and bowl on a tough condition, everyone else is shooting duece, why not me? Because I didn't put the effort in on the condition, practice practice practice, and not just on any shot, on a tough shot, or with a plastic ball. Top level bowlers have got to be prepared for overseas competition if they want to be the best.
Now Jeff I completely agree on your comment about alleys having to lay out a high scoring shot, but it's the bowlers mentality that causes that, bowling is a SPORT not a game. Its the equivelant of say...a soccer game, where they shorten the length/width of the field, increase the size of the goal, make the ball more aerodynamic etc, do you see what im getting at, they are making the game easier for themselves, making themselves look better, then they go and compete with the best and suddenly they dont have the energy to run the full field, the goal is smaller, it requires more power and accuracy to score. Thats where bowling is headed with easy conditions.
And no I dont expect things to change, scoring will continue to increase, patterns will become easier, balls will become stronger. Maybe somewhere down the track, one day, the pin weight will have to be increased to slow scoring down, who knows.
If you dont get the point im putting across PM me, I know this was off topic but I thought it had to be touched on.
Later, Macca
EDIT: You got your post in before me Jeff, I see you agree with Wayne, my point still stands though.
Then there is your bowler who wants more than big games, they want more, they want representative bowling, they want to be satisfied that they can compete with the best, on the toughest conditions at the top level with the best bowlers. If were bowling on easy conditions, sure 230+ averages and honour scores coming out of your ears are all fun and dandy, you top qualify for your team and then go and bowl on a tough condition, everyone else is shooting duece, why not me? Because I didn't put the effort in on the condition, practice practice practice, and not just on any shot, on a tough shot, or with a plastic ball. Top level bowlers have got to be prepared for overseas competition if they want to be the best.
Now Jeff I completely agree on your comment about alleys having to lay out a high scoring shot, but it's the bowlers mentality that causes that, bowling is a SPORT not a game. Its the equivelant of say...a soccer game, where they shorten the length/width of the field, increase the size of the goal, make the ball more aerodynamic etc, do you see what im getting at, they are making the game easier for themselves, making themselves look better, then they go and compete with the best and suddenly they dont have the energy to run the full field, the goal is smaller, it requires more power and accuracy to score. Thats where bowling is headed with easy conditions.
And no I dont expect things to change, scoring will continue to increase, patterns will become easier, balls will become stronger. Maybe somewhere down the track, one day, the pin weight will have to be increased to slow scoring down, who knows.
If you dont get the point im putting across PM me, I know this was off topic but I thought it had to be touched on.
Later, Macca
EDIT: You got your post in before me Jeff, I see you agree with Wayne, my point still stands though.
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
I agree with most of what is being said.
Just a couple of questions for you guy's:
Why are the ATBC and TBA missing records of any sort anyway?
Wayne, so you have never, in your bowling career complained about bad lane conditions, or for that matter did you ever complain about the conditions being to easy in a tournament?
Who is to blame for the way bowling is today and the easy scores bing bowled?
My thoughts,
NOT proprietors or managers, even though they seem to cop all the flack.
It all starts at the top with the major manafacturers having to go one better than their opposition, Storm, Brunswick AMF and the list goes on. The bowlers then purchase this wonderful equipment that kills the pins, then some leader in our industry realizes that to make the tournaments bigger and better and to be able to atract $$$ for televised events it has to be high scoring and exciting. And you have to agrre that the corporate $$$ enjoy high scores and strings of strikes from both opponents rather than spares and open frames. Thus the problem starts.
Wayne the education must start with the juniors, they are our sports future, not the league bowlers whom already have a certain mindset that will not change because they have already been spoilt. You and I witnessed on the weekend just gone at Bendigo, 64 junior bowlers, trying out on a very difficult condition with the greater percentage of them not knowing how to adjust to it. I gave my daughter what I deemed to be a tougher, flatter condition to practice on before th event, it helped her to some degree, but she still stuggled like the rest. On returning home she has requested that I put down the tougher condition for her once a week, odd thing is noone wants to practice on it with her!
Maybe this is where the TBA and the coaching fraternity need to sit down and work out some real stratagies for the future.
Any way back to the subject at hand, a lot of centre's still have not posted yet.
Just a couple of questions for you guy's:
Why are the ATBC and TBA missing records of any sort anyway?
Wayne, so you have never, in your bowling career complained about bad lane conditions, or for that matter did you ever complain about the conditions being to easy in a tournament?
Who is to blame for the way bowling is today and the easy scores bing bowled?
My thoughts,
NOT proprietors or managers, even though they seem to cop all the flack.
It all starts at the top with the major manafacturers having to go one better than their opposition, Storm, Brunswick AMF and the list goes on. The bowlers then purchase this wonderful equipment that kills the pins, then some leader in our industry realizes that to make the tournaments bigger and better and to be able to atract $$$ for televised events it has to be high scoring and exciting. And you have to agrre that the corporate $$$ enjoy high scores and strings of strikes from both opponents rather than spares and open frames. Thus the problem starts.
Wayne the education must start with the juniors, they are our sports future, not the league bowlers whom already have a certain mindset that will not change because they have already been spoilt. You and I witnessed on the weekend just gone at Bendigo, 64 junior bowlers, trying out on a very difficult condition with the greater percentage of them not knowing how to adjust to it. I gave my daughter what I deemed to be a tougher, flatter condition to practice on before th event, it helped her to some degree, but she still stuggled like the rest. On returning home she has requested that I put down the tougher condition for her once a week, odd thing is noone wants to practice on it with her!
Maybe this is where the TBA and the coaching fraternity need to sit down and work out some real stratagies for the future.
Any way back to the subject at hand, a lot of centre's still have not posted yet.
rychenroller
Active Member
Melton uses a VLS plus and a Century 100 on wooden lanes. On the best of nights you have 3 boards to play if, unless you get your speed wrong. There is one average of 200 in the house, and only 3 in the 190's
And its magnificent
And its magnificent
micky_macca
Member
wchester said:
Wow, thats means alot coming from someone of such a high level of the game, thankyou very much.
Well here we go again were going to fix the game up through the juniors.
Every time they bowl a 200 game were going to hit them on the head with a hammer and say you did'nt earn it .Were going to trick up the lanes than laugh at thier attempts to handle it.
We would be well advised to start with the senior comps before we start on the juniors otherwise we could turn the juniors away from the sport. Most of them don't have the maturity to handle some of the obstacles thrown at them,they can't see why thier $400 ball won't hit when they hit the right place,even thier parents have less of an idea, they just wasted $400 on a ball that does nothing,but the coach says you need this other piece of equipment drilled this way or your not going to score.How much money is this sport going to cost thier parents,eventually the kids see the light thier parents can't afford for me to compete,I'll just stay a big fish in a little pond.
willey
Were not going to fix this sport through the juniors,we'll just end up with no juniors.
Every time they bowl a 200 game were going to hit them on the head with a hammer and say you did'nt earn it .Were going to trick up the lanes than laugh at thier attempts to handle it.
We would be well advised to start with the senior comps before we start on the juniors otherwise we could turn the juniors away from the sport. Most of them don't have the maturity to handle some of the obstacles thrown at them,they can't see why thier $400 ball won't hit when they hit the right place,even thier parents have less of an idea, they just wasted $400 on a ball that does nothing,but the coach says you need this other piece of equipment drilled this way or your not going to score.How much money is this sport going to cost thier parents,eventually the kids see the light thier parents can't afford for me to compete,I'll just stay a big fish in a little pond.
willey
Were not going to fix this sport through the juniors,we'll just end up with no juniors.
micky_macca
Member
willey said:
Why does everyone seem to think us juniors are all the same, the majority understand the game and WANT to improve, one of the earliest things I was ever tought by my coach was its never the balls fault, your just throwing bad shots, or not matching up with the condition, so either change balls or adjust, the way to change the game is through juniors, yes some would get deterred I agree with you, but as the new breed continually joins the game this is all they have ever had to bowl on, they will muscle down and improve themselves. If this country wants to be competitive at the top level of bowling, harder conditions are the only answer, I bowled the worst I have ever bowled at Blacktown and a tough condition didn't help either, but when I threw a good shot on there it was much more satisfying than stringing 6 on a THS.
If we struggle on these tough shots and your laughing at us, well what good are you for the game? YOUR the one deterring young bowlers to leave the game, making them think they are not good enough instead of giving them a pat on the back and motivating them to improve.
Starting with the seniors? If they bowled since they were young chances are they already know what tough bowling is mate.
$400 balls drilled in every which way are also not the answer to bowling, I admit, I myself have my fair share of balls, only so I can keep up with the competition though. Anyone can learn the basics and how to adjust with 3 balls, one for heavy, one for medium, one for dry, from there its hand adjustments and speed changes, rev increase or decrease. In no means am I saying I do all these things, they have become part of my practise over a long period of time, because I want to be up there with the best, only way to do that is to be able to bowl on any condition.
Michael McDonald
