GEICO Team shoot out - Battle of the brands!

[WAC4504]

I would much rather see them go head to head league style instead of Baker style. Three game series team style, winners take all, to me that would be worth watching. There's a big difference between two shots a game and ten shots a game, I think it would be interesting to watch the pros adjust to the lanes and see what balls are used when the lanes change. This reminds me of a prize fight that's over in the first round, why not give the fans something worth watching? As far as who wins, who cares? It's almost like watching basketball, football, tennis, soccer, golf, or what ever and worrying about what brand ball there using.

 

[Zack]

storm will just dominate storm is such a good ball

p.s. for you quala

 

[AdrianS]

Gawd forget the who gives a **** option where is the 'where's a godamn gun' option. aghhhhh!!!!!

 

[jason_doust]

As Jason Thomas (a.k.a. P.B. Atkinson) put it so neatly,

"This event will decide once and for all which company makes the best equipment for bowling tournaments outside in extreme humidity and searing lane surface temperatures. This information should prove vital to all bowlers playing in these conditions, which is just about... Well, nobody."

But there will no doubt be a some good play and plenty of healthy rivalry. Even if it does prove once and for all that the ball companies think they own bowling and we're all too stupid to argue with them.

 

[jimcross]

" and we're all too stupid to argue with them. "

I've been sitting here trying to convince myself, Jason, that you're wrong, but I can't.
What a sad commentary on the game.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

As Jason Thomas (a.k.a. P.B. Atkinson) put it so neatly,

"This event will decide once and for all which company makes the best equipment for bowling tournaments outside in extreme humidity and searing lane surface temperatures. This information should prove vital to all bowlers playing in these conditions, which is just about... Well, nobody."

But there will no doubt be a some good play and plenty of healthy rivalry. Even if it does prove once and for all that the ball companies think they own bowling and we're all too stupid to argue with them.

Jason, surely you must be showing some naivety if you believe in any way shape or form that the ball companies don't own the game. The manner in which they have manipulated the USBC into only allowing insignificant legislative limits on bowling ball technology surely must convince you that, if they don't ACTUALLY own the game, then they largely control it.

 

[jason_doust]

But that's the point exactly. So long as we believe it, it's true. They are bluffing reasonably well, but it's really a case of the Emperor's new clothes.

The reason I disagree with the "Bowling ball companies own bowling" premise hinges on this question of precedence;
Does bowling need the ball companies more than the ball companies need bowling?
It seems improbable that the answer is yes, especially long term.

If I were winding back ball specs, I'd be doing it incrementally and applying some hard science and measurement to the changes, which is what the USBC is doing. There would be uproar, almost exclusively from those who stand to lose, if they were to just make a big change overnight! The ball companies can still make a lot of money out a gradual transition. Better to have them in the tent than out, methinks.

It's taken decades to get in the trouble we're in. It'll take a while to get back out to a more balanced status quo.

A long overdue and meaningful limit should be placed on the profile of cover stocks, in terms of sanding grit and chemical profile. But the research isn't finished yet. It may yet happen. There is talk of using profilometers as a complement to or possibly replacement for the Durometer specification for surfaces.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

But that's the point exactly. So long as we believe it, it's true. They are bluffing reasonably well, but it's really a case of the Emperor's new clothes.

The reason I disagree with the "Bowling ball companies own bowling" premise hinges on this question of precedence;
Does bowling need the ball companies more than the ball companies need bowling?
It seems improbable that the answer is yes, especially long term.

If I were winding back ball specs, I'd be doing it incrementally and applying some hard science and measurement to the changes, which is what the USBC is doing. There would be uproar, almost exclusively from those who stand to lose, if they were to just make a big change overnight! The ball companies can still make a lot of money out a gradual transition. Better to have them in the tent than out, methinks.

It's taken decades to get in the trouble we're in. It'll take a while to get back out to a more balanced status quo.

A long overdue and meaningful limit should be placed on the profile of cover stocks, in terms of sanding grit and chemical profile. But the research isn't finished yet. It may yet happen. There is talk of using profilometers as a complement to or possibly replacement for the Durometer specification for surfaces.

The problem is that the governing body is forever playing catch up, ie the manufacturers develop technology and the USBC tries to legislate to limit it's effectiveness, however its always a half ar$ed effort. As an example, take the Mohrs rating for particle size and percentage loading limits the USBC introduced. You can't tell me that if the USBC wasn't beholden to the ball companies, they would not have totally banned particle additives?

Further to this, would not have the USBC banned such technologies as assymetric cores, soaker coverstocks had they the ability to stand up to the ball companies. Reality is that the ball companies have invested such huge money in Research and Development, they are never going to allow the USBC to totally reverse bowling ball technology.

There is precedence for this as well. Consider golf. The R&A has banned square grooves on club faces in an attempt to temper the ability of the everyday golfer to impart professional level of spin on the ball. Sorry, but BIG DEAL! There are now drivers with tunable heads that can cure a slice, a hook or tune the head to sent the ball on the desire ball flight without having to change set up or hand position. They also hit the ball far further than they ever did. I am 51 years old with a crook back and knee. I can hit a driver just as far now, playing once or twice a year as I could when I was 21, playing 2 or 3 times a week and practising and playing off a single figure handicap!

The reality is that too many sports have equipment that has advanced technologically to a point where manufacturers are hell-bent on protecting their investments. I respectfully submit that bowling is no different.

 

[jason_doust]

Hey Brenton,

I agree with your take on the status quo. Only that bowling balls are far worse than Golf balls and clubs in terms of performance enhancing capability. As I have said before, if many bowlers today could take a pill that increased their rev rate and hook as much without reactive resin, their muscles would explode!

So what would happen to bowling if the USBC slowly, steadily wound back the specs? Ball companies would have time to use their existing R&D while pursuing other avenues as the specs were tightened. It has to be a consultative process between the two bodies. Or can the ball companies really destroy the USBC? Would they want to?

I hold out hope (that deceptive salesman of human emotion) that the USBC is measuring, calculating and then treading carefully down the right path.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[jimcross]

Talking about 'hope', Jason, I 'hope' you're right, but fear you're wrong.

 

[GoTheCell]

I agree with your take on the status quo. Only that bowling balls are far worse than Golf balls and clubs in terms of performance enhancing capability.

The golf course is not set up to take advantage of the fact that golf balls go straighter and further now and that the clubs make it easier to hit them like that (unless you play like me).

Fact is, golf courses are being made harder to suit the equipment. What do bowling centres do (and we all know which centres are at fault) - they ditch the lanes to make the scores higher.

Imagine the uproar if golf courses had grooves in the greens so that your ball rolled into the hole.
Billiard tables with cushions set up so that your ball goes into the pocket every time.
Lawn bowling greens with bumpers so that your ball always finished on top of the little white ball (whatever it is called).

All these are no different to bouncing off the side of a ditch on a lane and into the pocket.

It isn't so much the equipment but the fact that centres are taking advantage of the equipment and setting up lanes to produce high scores. If the conditions were kept relative to the equipment then scoring would be back to reality and we wouldn't have every second person in bowling shooting a 300 game.

 

[Shayne Melton]

How is it that every post that goes on this web site ends up being an argument about scoring conditions in the modern era ??????

 

[Jase]

How is it that every post that goes on this web site ends up being an argument about scoring conditions in the modern era ??????

Million dollar Question that one mate...If someone could answer that it would clear up a few things for me also...

 

[$$Pricey$$]

How is it that every post that goes on this web site ends up being an argument about scoring conditions in the modern era ??????

because of trolls like gothecell who enjoy creating arguments.

'scoring conditions in the modern era' is just the easiest way for him and the other trolls to create a argument.

 

[AdrianS]

Ah well, as i rack up a few more 300's over the yrs i'll have a laugh at these people everytime, see you guys at 300 no. 20!!!

 

[Easy Tiger]

Tighten them up to 1:1, seriously it wouldn't worry me. Someone just do something so all this complaining and negativity can stop!!!! Nothing will kill the game faster than the constant negativity!! (Yes, that even includes ditches!!)

People will learn to adjust over time, and it is going to effect everyone so it is not biased. I wish TBA would find a magical way to enforce this and just do it!

 

[Fitzy]

Million dollar Question that one mate...If someone could answer that it would clear up a few things for me also...

The million dollar question, huh, ... that reminds me of a ditch centre i bowled in once ... ...


LOL!!!

 

[AdrianS]

Ahh 1 to 1 conditions all over the place, whoops!!! I think leauge bowling ending in this country would be not very far behind. Ah well some people can sleep easier at night again i guess........

 

[jason_doust]

It's tangential to, but not fully off topic, as the question is related. Conditions affect everything.

1:1 is just brutal. It's really unpleasant to play on, especially with modern bungy balls. Likewise, getting beaten by some guy who plonks it all over the place on a 10:1 cheat shot is as unpleasant, as you know for years, he's done not much more than buy a ball and turn up for league to get his inflated average. Both scenarios suck, quite frankly.

I must admit that binary "Real Man's Sport Shot vs. Cheating Ditch" thinking irks me as both ends of the spectrum are extremes, while the answer lies in the middle. There's constant talk as if lanes can only be 1:1 or 10:1.

For the folks missed Sesame Street, The Count mentioned 8 numbers in between! Depending on the age and condition of the surface, shot ratios from 6-8:1 offer some miss room (if not 5 boards at the break point) as well as the ability to play multiple breakpoints, giving a degree of game play not encountered on a 10 board 10:1 shot. It's just much more interesting (and even a little more skill based!)

But I agree that this should be another thread. Let's get back to the Geico Team Shoot-Out and the Battle of the Brands ball marketing exercise.

 

[GoTheCell]

because of trolls like gothecell who enjoy creating arguments.

'scoring conditions in the modern era' is just the easiest way for him and the other trolls to create a argument.

Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite might help you. You accuse others of doing something when you are one of the biggest culprits on here.

Amazing how it turns personal every time someone speaks sense on these forums.